Loose Steering Fix

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  • rayray311
    232 I6
    • Jun 21, 2017
    • 98

    Loose Steering Fix

    The steering on my 88 Grand Wagoneer is very loose. Theres no play...its just extremely easy to turn the wheel. I actually like it and it turns on a dime and easy to maneuver but when I'm driving at high-ish speeds on the highway she can be squirly. I can't just sit back and cruise at highway speeds with one arm on the when. I have to have them at 10/2.

    How do I tighten up my steering a bit? I've never done it.

  • Tripwire
    AMC 4 OH! 1
    • Jul 30, 2000
    • 4656

    #2
    have you taken it in to someone (like les schwab) to see whats worn out? tightening the box wont help much if the front end / rag joint is worn out, or the vehicle is lifted a lot throwing off the caster angle ( not camber) i had my camber adjusted by a REAL 4WD shop using shims and it drives like a Caddy now
    Last edited by Tripwire; 02-20-2018, 06:07 PM.
    Abort? Retry? Ignore? >

    86 GrandWag. Howell fuel Injected 360. MSD Ignition + Dizzy. 727/229 swap BJ's 2" Lift and 31's

    88 Wrangler 4.2, Howell TBI and MSD - Borla Headers w/ Cat-back + winch and 31's AND a M416 trailer (-:

    Comment

    • johnsonic
      258 I6
      • Mar 12, 2015
      • 335

      #3
      2nd on checking shims - made all the difference on my last GW. Found that I actually had camber in the wrong direction because the PO put the shims in backward when putting the lift in.

      1984 GW
      360
      Comp 260H
      Harland Sharp Roller Rockers
      Wiseco -21cc Forged Pistons
      Performer Intake
      Holley SA 670
      MSD 8523
      Dakota Digital custom cluster
      Serehill headlamp harness
      NWMP aux tank

      1987 GW deceased
      ...but the parts live on

      Comment

      • Serious Johnson
        AMC 4 OH! 1
        • May 19, 2002
        • 3831

        #4
        Some of us have swapped-in a quicker ratio S-10 steering box for a "tighter" feel, but it doesn't sound like that's what you want. What you describe is something worn or not set up correctly as Tripwire pointed out. If the box is worn it can be adjusted slightly but you should first be sure that's what it is and then do it right. Just cranking the screw down can, well, screw things up. If it's worn tie rod ends causing slop, they could break and kill you.

        S.J.
        "Carpe Mañana".

        '83 Wagoneer
        360, .030-over, K8600 cam, Crane springs, ported heads, Edelbrock Performer, G.M. TBI, TFI, 3" exhaust,
        T-18a/208, D44/AMC 20 w/ limited slip in both, 3.73s, 33s, BDS 4" springs, Rancho 9000 shocks, etc., etc.

        Comment

        • rayray311
          232 I6
          • Jun 21, 2017
          • 98

          #5
          thanx for the indo....

          I didn't suspect anything was wrong with it until u guys said so lol
          just seemed like extremely easy to turn etc...and very responsive.
          part of issue also is having it jacked up high with a lift and big tires makes her feel top heavy so I don't drive too fast because she feels like she could flip if I had to make emergency quicjk turn at highway speeds.

          ill look into those suggestions...thanks

          Comment

          • Tripwire
            AMC 4 OH! 1
            • Jul 30, 2000
            • 4656

            #6
            when you jack up and add bigger tires you change the caster angle ( think of how a bicycle handles if you flip the forks around 180 degrees

            Big chain stores wont adjust this for you - you need to go to a specialty 4WD shop
            Abort? Retry? Ignore? >

            86 GrandWag. Howell fuel Injected 360. MSD Ignition + Dizzy. 727/229 swap BJ's 2" Lift and 31's

            88 Wrangler 4.2, Howell TBI and MSD - Borla Headers w/ Cat-back + winch and 31's AND a M416 trailer (-:

            Comment

            • countrycorby
              232 I6
              • Dec 26, 2016
              • 37

              #7
              I kinda have the same problem. Mine is more ..... twitchy feeling. Very responsive almost too much. My J is not lifted at all and everything underneath looks good and feels tight. Not sure what is causing this. Any other ideas ??

              Comment

              • rang-a-stang
                Administrator
                • Oct 31, 2016
                • 5456

                #8
                I have heard if your alignment is slightly toe out, it can get "darty".
                Chuck McTruck 71 J4000
                (Chuck McTruck Build Thread)
                79 Cherokee Chief (SOLD, goodbye old buddy)
                (Cherokee Build Thread)
                11 Nissan Pathfinder Silver Edition 4x4
                09 Mazdaspeed3 Grand Touring
                00 Baby Cherokee

                Comment

                • wiley-moeracing
                  350 Buick
                  • Feb 15, 2010
                  • 1430

                  #9
                  adding some more caster will help with the twitchiness, can be done with shims under the axles or off set ball joints.

                  Comment

                  • tgreese
                    • May 29, 2003
                    • 11682

                    #10
                    Originally posted by wiley-moeracing
                    adding some more caster will help with the twitchiness, can be done with shims under the axles or off set ball joints.
                    Yes, increased caster will create more force back-to-center for the steering. This will improve tracking straight-ahead and make the wheel come back to center more strongly and quickly. Think of an Easy Rider style chopper with long forks ... these bikes have huge positive caster, maybe 45 degrees. This makes these bikes very stable on the highway - recall the hands-off cruising scenes from Easy Rider.

                    I'd suggest having your alignment checked locally. The shop can only set the toe-in and center the steering easily. Ask them for the printout from the alignment machine. Caster for a '76 Wagoneer is 4 degrees +/- 1 degree. In my experience, an increase to 5-7 degrees will improve tracking. If you need more caster, buy steel wedge-shaped shims to put between the spring pack and the axle pad. This will tilt the steering axis back more and increase caster.

                    Lift tends to decrease caster.

                    Looseness in the steering gear (wear) will make the Jeep wander, and there will be a lot of slop in the rotation of the steering wheel. Note that these Jeeps had very light steering when new, and you could easily parallel park by palming the wheel, even with wide tires. It was the style of the day.
                    Last edited by tgreese; 02-22-2018, 11:44 AM.
                    Tim Reese
                    Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
                    Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
                    Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
                    GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
                    ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk

                    Comment

                    • joe
                      • Apr 28, 2000
                      • 22392

                      #11
                      Checking alignment is never a bad idea. My "guess" would be, it's just the nature of the beast as Tim mentioned. I don't like the variable ratio boxes on the later fsj's. Too freakin sensitive at speed. I loved my 83 NT Chero but hated the too sensitive steering on the hwy. If a bee ever flew into the cab and landed on either side of the steering wheel...you be changing lanes. Great for parking but no road feel.
                      joe
                      "Don't mind me. I'm just here for the alibi"

                      Comment

                      • gpcl16
                        232 I6
                        • Apr 02, 2016
                        • 121

                        #12
                        How much of a lift and what type of lift do you have? When I installed my 4" spring lift on I had a lot of issues with the caster angle. I ended up having to put in 4 degree wedges under the springs to bring me back to the correct caster angle. I believe I ended up around 5.7 left and 6.1 right. The truck drives super easy at 75+MPH now.

                        The only issue with doing this is that you create a significant u-joint angle with the front pinion. I had a severe vibration above 55MPH. Your results may vary. Tried installing brand new U-joints but it didn't help. I had to install selectable hubs to deal with the problem. They are however, a ticking time bomb if you are running a 229 and someone decides to shift into 4WD without locking the hubs.

                        The best way to deal with it is a cut and turn on the front axle but that requires some welding and fabrication skill.

                        I would avoid adjusting the steering box unless you know for sure it is loose. I worked at an alignment shop for several years and I've seen steering boxes adjusted too tight causing the wheel to not return to center. That will cause the truck to drift all over the highway needing constant correction by the driver. Adjusting can also can quickly wear out your steering gears if the preload is not adjusted correctly.

                        Finally toe in needs to be set correctly as well for proper return to center.
                        1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
                        4" BDS Suspension Lift
                        Tru-Trac Rear
                        Howell GM TBI with Custom Tune

                        Comment

                        • tgreese
                          • May 29, 2003
                          • 11682

                          #13
                          The shims do point the pinion down more, but 4 degrees is not a huge change ...

                          You could possibly consult a driveline specialist like Tom Woods or High Angle and see if there is a fix for the vibration that does not require turning the housing.

                          Trail Tested, Competition Proven, Show Quality Driveshafts and Slip Yoke Eliminators for Jeep Wranglers, Cherokees, Ford Broncos and more.



                          Just an FYI for the OP - there is a procedure in the TSM for adjusting the steering gear. The book cautions strongly to adjust play in the long axis of the gear (big nut on the end) before you adjust the gear mesh (screw on top). The procedure is done on the bench.
                          Tim Reese
                          Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
                          Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
                          Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
                          GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
                          ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk

                          Comment

                          • rayray311
                            232 I6
                            • Jun 21, 2017
                            • 98

                            #14
                            Originally posted by joe
                            Checking alignment is never a bad idea. My "guess" would be, it's just the nature of the beast as Tim mentioned. I don't like the variable ratio boxes on the later fsj's. Too freakin sensitive at speed. I loved my 83 NT Chero but hated the too sensitive steering on the hwy. If a bee ever flew into the cab and landed on either side of the steering wheel...you be changing lanes. Great for parking but no road feel.

                            yes this describes it exactly!

                            Comment

                            • tgreese
                              • May 29, 2003
                              • 11682

                              #15
                              Regardless, if it's been lifted and not had the alignment checked, you need it done. A lift will change the caster. Around $50 here. Get the printout.
                              Tim Reese
                              Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
                              Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
                              Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
                              GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
                              ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk

                              Comment

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