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  #1  
Old 07-23-2018, 08:54 AM
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Full Size Jeeper Full Size Jeeper is offline
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Oil pump question.

Looked at a few of the oil pump rebuild threads and have a few questions. First off, I think this engine Had new bearings installed around 2002. Bearings have a date stamp. One of the piston tops was a banged up, like maybe it dropped a valve, but all cylinders were standard. Pump has a mid plate and it is worn.Do I need it and can I just clean it up using the glass and valve grinding compound. Also lots of small groves in the side of the pump gear housing. Is any amount okay, how much is to much. I will post a few pics.
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1978 Wagoneer

401/turbo 400 trans. Quadra-Trac BW1339 (with Low) 4" Rusty's lift with 31" Summit Mud Dawgs

Mods:
Fuel Tank, Red Holley Fuel Pump, Razor Grill (profile pic out dated), Rebuilt steering box
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  #2  
Old 07-23-2018, 08:55 AM
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Mid plate
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1978 Wagoneer

401/turbo 400 trans. Quadra-Trac BW1339 (with Low) 4" Rusty's lift with 31" Summit Mud Dawgs

Mods:
Fuel Tank, Red Holley Fuel Pump, Razor Grill (profile pic out dated), Rebuilt steering box
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  #3  
Old 07-23-2018, 09:19 AM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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pretty much normal wear on the pump. what a miserable design.


on the midplate,no you don't. all that midplate does is add another spot to leak oil.


it ranks up there with the oil line mod.


and did somebody use silicone on those gaskets?
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  #4  
Old 07-23-2018, 09:25 AM
440sixpack 440sixpack is offline
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I've seen worse. whatever you do don't try to smooth it up all that does is increase the tolerances.

The mid plate can be replaced, or don't use it if your adapter plate is in good shape.


Hard tell how bad your cover is by a picture but if it's decent I'd rather use it than a Chinese reproduction.
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  #5  
Old 07-23-2018, 10:10 AM
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Thanks for the reply's. I will skip the mid plate, some sort of sealer was used on the gasket. I will check the clearance and ask a few more question later. Also had no oil pressure problems the year and a half I drove it.
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1978 Wagoneer

401/turbo 400 trans. Quadra-Trac BW1339 (with Low) 4" Rusty's lift with 31" Summit Mud Dawgs

Mods:
Fuel Tank, Red Holley Fuel Pump, Razor Grill (profile pic out dated), Rebuilt steering box
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  #6  
Old 07-23-2018, 12:12 PM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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never silicone. i use aerosol copper coat there if at all.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hankrod
Ristows right.................again,




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!


→ Where the kids hang out...

fsjbuilder.org come for the mindless chat,stay for the hand drawn emoticons.

It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...
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  #7  
Old 07-24-2018, 07:44 PM
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Full Size Jeeper Full Size Jeeper is offline
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Okay, worked on the oil pump end cover, used a piece of glass and valve lapping compound.
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1978 Wagoneer

401/turbo 400 trans. Quadra-Trac BW1339 (with Low) 4" Rusty's lift with 31" Summit Mud Dawgs

Mods:
Fuel Tank, Red Holley Fuel Pump, Razor Grill (profile pic out dated), Rebuilt steering box
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  #8  
Old 07-24-2018, 07:46 PM
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Took about an hour and a half to get it good enough for me.
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1978 Wagoneer

401/turbo 400 trans. Quadra-Trac BW1339 (with Low) 4" Rusty's lift with 31" Summit Mud Dawgs

Mods:
Fuel Tank, Red Holley Fuel Pump, Razor Grill (profile pic out dated), Rebuilt steering box
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  #9  
Old 07-24-2018, 07:48 PM
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Before.
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1978 Wagoneer

401/turbo 400 trans. Quadra-Trac BW1339 (with Low) 4" Rusty's lift with 31" Summit Mud Dawgs

Mods:
Fuel Tank, Red Holley Fuel Pump, Razor Grill (profile pic out dated), Rebuilt steering box
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  #10  
Old 07-24-2018, 07:50 PM
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After.
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1978 Wagoneer

401/turbo 400 trans. Quadra-Trac BW1339 (with Low) 4" Rusty's lift with 31" Summit Mud Dawgs

Mods:
Fuel Tank, Red Holley Fuel Pump, Razor Grill (profile pic out dated), Rebuilt steering box
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  #11  
Old 07-24-2018, 07:52 PM
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Here is the plastigage. Drive gear is at .006
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1978 Wagoneer

401/turbo 400 trans. Quadra-Trac BW1339 (with Low) 4" Rusty's lift with 31" Summit Mud Dawgs

Mods:
Fuel Tank, Red Holley Fuel Pump, Razor Grill (profile pic out dated), Rebuilt steering box
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  #12  
Old 07-24-2018, 07:54 PM
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Driven gear is at .004
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1978 Wagoneer

401/turbo 400 trans. Quadra-Trac BW1339 (with Low) 4" Rusty's lift with 31" Summit Mud Dawgs

Mods:
Fuel Tank, Red Holley Fuel Pump, Razor Grill (profile pic out dated), Rebuilt steering box
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  #13  
Old 07-24-2018, 08:06 PM
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So to my thinking, the timing cover mating surface is not flat or the top surface where the gears sit is worn, the drive gear side is more worn than the driven gear side by .002. Also the gears to cover has some grooving, but the thickest feeler gauge I can insert is .003 on either side. So with that said, do I have A usable cover? Thanks in advance.
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1978 Wagoneer

401/turbo 400 trans. Quadra-Trac BW1339 (with Low) 4" Rusty's lift with 31" Summit Mud Dawgs

Mods:
Fuel Tank, Red Holley Fuel Pump, Razor Grill (profile pic out dated), Rebuilt steering box
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  #14  
Old 07-24-2018, 08:43 PM
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So, should I lap the timing cover side to try and tighten up the clearance a little. The TSM say 2 to 8 thousands is spec, but .002 is preferred. Also I will never be able to get rid of the .002 difference between the gears.
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1978 Wagoneer

401/turbo 400 trans. Quadra-Trac BW1339 (with Low) 4" Rusty's lift with 31" Summit Mud Dawgs

Mods:
Fuel Tank, Red Holley Fuel Pump, Razor Grill (profile pic out dated), Rebuilt steering box
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  #15  
Old 07-25-2018, 10:07 AM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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lap the cover till the tolerance is nil,but the gears turn freely. it will increase as it heats up. i just do mine feel. if it's off the engine,yes i would work till i can;t feel any clearance but the gears turn freely.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hankrod
Ristows right.................again,




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!


→ Where the kids hang out...

fsjbuilder.org come for the mindless chat,stay for the hand drawn emoticons.

It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...
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  #16  
Old 07-25-2018, 10:26 AM
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When I re-did my cover it wasn't flat either.
Lapping it made it much better, it takes a while but made a HUGE difference in hot oil pressure on mine.
I used a really long file and after a few swipes it was ready for lapping.
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  #17  
Old 07-25-2018, 03:03 PM
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Thanks Ristow and babywag, I'am going to try and finish it tonight.
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1978 Wagoneer

401/turbo 400 trans. Quadra-Trac BW1339 (with Low) 4" Rusty's lift with 31" Summit Mud Dawgs

Mods:
Fuel Tank, Red Holley Fuel Pump, Razor Grill (profile pic out dated), Rebuilt steering box
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  #18  
Old 07-25-2018, 05:33 PM
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FSJunkie FSJunkie is offline
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A feeler gauge for the gear side clearance to the housing will tell you if you need to replace the cover or not.

Buick V8s and V6s use this exact same oil pump design, only their oil pumps are smaller. The AMC oil pump actually has pretty high capacity compared to the Buicks. The AMC 258's starting in the early 1980s switched to an aluminum oil pump housing too. They were cast iron before that.


Aluminum oil pump housings with steel gears don't actually wear out that fast so long as the oil is clean. The steel gears are not what wears the housing. The steel gears grinding dirt and contamination into the aluminum housing is what destroys the housing. They just are not as durable.
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