Wagonmaster is in the news

[sflier]

I just read this on Autoblog: http://www.autoblog.com/2013/02/01/j...ching-next-gr/

A team of Jeep execs and product planners visited Leon's shop to view his stable and discuss ideas for the (possibly) upcoming Grand Wagoneer. I know Jeep has talked about bringing one back to the market for a couple of years now. I have mixed feelings about it, but I thought I'd share.

[Bill J]

I have no intention of purchasing a new Grand Wagoneer, mainly because a minivan suits my current lifestyle, and it, as was the original, will not be in my price point. I am very interested to see what it will look like. I will get back in the FSJ game someday, mainly because I want an old vehicle with some character and utility!

[fulsizjeep]

I am interested is what they look like after 10 years of use.

[ProTouring442]

But why make it a three row Escalade rival? It wasn't huge when it came out originally, and I don't think it should be huge now (though a three row version could be available). It should larger than a Range Rover, but just as luxurious.

[srobertsfsj]

I like this statement from the article.

"Miller says right now, Jeep is looking at three powerplants,including a small displacement turbo-diesel and what would likely be the 3.6-liter Pentastar V6 married to an eight-speed automatic transmission, as well as a small-displacement turbo diesel and a V8. With all of those options already in play in the Grand Cherokee, we imagine moving them to a larger platform wouldn't necessarily be difficult."

[cjarcher]

Cool. It's not like Chrysler has ever made a car I didn't want to drive, other than the PT Cruiser, any of the K-cars, the LH platform (an AMC/Renault derivative interestingly enough), anything powered by the 2.2/2.5L, the Compass, the Patriot, the Commander, and the Liberty. Oh and anything manufactured between 1974 and 1980. And the Neon.
My prediction: The Commander v2.0 with some "retro" styling cues is what we'll be able to buy.
The article doesn't make sense because it says they don't want to use the Commander or Durango platforms and may use a stretched Grand Cherokee. The Commander is out of production and it WAS a stretched Grand Cherokee and Durango shares a platform with the Grand Cherokee. The entire paragraph is a contradiction.

[sflier]

The Commander is out of production and it WAS a stretched Grand Cherokee and Durango shares a platform with the Grand Cherokee. The entire paragraph is a contradiction.

I was thinking the same thing when I read it. I guess the Jeep execs didn't share much information with them ...

[suzq044]

Yeah; whoever wrote that should've been corrected, and made sure their info was right before sending it in. lol

BTW i rendered one in my sig.

[Ghinmi]

I like this statement from the article.

"Miller says right now, Jeep is looking at three powerplants,including a small displacement turbo-diesel and what would likely be the 3.6-liter Pentastar V6 married to an eight-speed automatic transmission, as well as a small-displacement turbo diesel and a V8. With all of those options already in play in the Grand Cherokee, we imagine moving them to a larger platform wouldn't necessarily be difficult."

Yeah, they're putting the 8-speed in most everything these days. It's even standard in 6 cylinder pickup trucks and soon to be behind the Hemi 1/2 ton trucks too.

[FSJunkie]

The need for 8 foreward speeds just says to me that their engines have crappy narrow torque curves. Ever hear of a torque converter? Whenever an automatic shifts to a higher gear, more resistance is applied to the output of the TQ and it slips more, multiplying torque and raising the gear ratio above that of the mechanical gears. Even when downshifting, the rise in engine RPM will tend to tighen up the converter and lower the gear ratio below that of the mechanical gear. That's why when an AT shifts, the RPm's don't change as much, because the TQ takes up the slack between the different ratios. This is how AT vehicles accelerate so smoothly, the engine stays in it's power curve and the ratio of input speed vs. output speed varies constantly, regardless of the mechanical gear it's in.

Heck, my Rambler is a 3 speed auto but starts in 2nd unless it's manually forced into a 1st gear start. When starting in 2nd, the TQ slips more to multiply the torque more and compensates somewhat for the lower mechanical gear ratio. The result is the engine climbs to the same RPM, the effective drive ratio is approximately the same, and it accelerates the same. Torque converters compensate the transmission torque multiplication factor.

Ever hear of the Dynaflow? Only one foreward speed, it was all done in the torque converter.

So why on Earth do they think they need 8 foreward speeds? It's just going to shifting constantly in and out of different ratios.
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BTW, the market share for 7 passenger SUV's has crashed. I read somewhere that sales of the Escalade-Tahoe-Suburban are down 30% or something like that. I have seatbelts for 6 in my Wagoneer, so what's the big deal? My parents' Durango seats 7, but the 3rd row stays folded down all the time and we use the back like a pickup. Even when I was 8 years old, it was too tiny back there for comfort.

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What the Chrysler exec's saw is only part of the Wagoneer world. Those restored Wags will never see dirt, mud, work, or hauling fishing gear. Most of them are bought by Country Music stars and are simply driven to the Nashville Mall once a week. I'm sure when the exec's asked Leon Miller what his customers liked best he replied, "Comfort, luxury, and road presence." -All things that can be tacked on to the new Grand Cherokee. had they asked me, I would have replied, "Simple, strong, rugged, easy to work on, no electronic controls and gimmickery, and last luxury".

I send them e-mails all the time asking about this stuff and never get a reply back.

[The Anti-Chrysler]

And the commander was such a success that they are trying again...

[El_Diablo]

Have you driven one of the 8 spds yet? Its all about increasing effciency and keeping the engine at the point its most effcient.

Heck, in the srt8 grand cherk acceleration has been greatly improved just by swapping to an 8spd. Oh, and they can skip shift....

Heads up, 9spd will be in the liberty replacement which is STILL unamed and driving me nuts. Oh and the dart as well as a few others eventually as well.

[suzq044]

The engines have plenty of torque, they just make a bit better milage with the 8spd trans.

The "Liberty replacement" has officially been named Cherokee.. just a heads-up.

As far as the Commander goes, that was all Daimler. Thats why it failed.

[El_Diablo]

That depends on who you talk to.... it is mostly leaning that way but the higher ups at chrysler have been throwing out so much bs lately that they don't even know what's real.

[FSJunkie]

That depends on who you talk to.... it is mostly leaning that way but the higher ups at chrysler have been throwing out so much bs lately that they don't even know what's real.

I think they do it on purpose to guage how the Jeep community will react. Why else would they have taken the Gladiator J-12 to Ouray last year?