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  #1  
Old 10-07-2019, 11:56 AM
1973waggyproject 1973waggyproject is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Oct 02, 2019
Location: Maine
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My 1973 Wagoneer(First time FSJeeper)

Hi All!
I'm going to hopefully come to an agreement on this 1973 Wagoneer. This would be my first Full size Jeep(I have several Wranglers) The body looks pretty rust free, but the floor is thin in spots. It was in one family nearly it's whole life and stored inside and only used in the summer. anything in particular I should look for? Anyone have some tips on common things? Also, any idea what the value is?

Thank you!!
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...080&fit=bounds

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...080&fit=bounds
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  #2  
Old 10-07-2019, 12:19 PM
tgreese's Avatar
tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Location: Medford MA USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1973waggyproject
Hi All!
I'm going to hopefully come to an agreement on this 1973 Wagoneer. This would be my first Full size Jeep(I have several Wranglers) The body looks pretty rust free, but the floor is thin in spots. It was in one family nearly it's whole life and stored inside and only used in the summer. anything in particular I should look for? Anyone have some tips on common things? Also, any idea what the value is?

Thank you!!
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...080&fit=bounds

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...080&fit=bounds
Fairway Green! Nice!

Get the factory service manual right away - should be available as a CD-ROM at RockAuto, or you can get a printed copy from BJ's. Do not bother with the Haynes or Chiltons manuals. There is a '74 manual free to read and download online at www.oljeep.com but '74 was a watershed year or the Wagoneer, and there are important differences in the driveline components.

1973 is the first year for the revolutionary Quadratrac full-time transfer case - it was optional with the automatic that year, and you could have it or the conventional Dana 20 gear driven case. If you have the QT, read this page http://jubileejeeps.org/quadratrac/index.htm

1973 was the last year with only drum brakes available, and the last year for the older closed-knuckle Dana 27 front axle. Most Wagoneers are V8/automatic with PS/PB. There were some examples made in these years with no power or manual transmissions, but they are unusual.

Floors and fenders are the usual rust spots.
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Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
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  #3  
Old 10-07-2019, 12:45 PM
1973waggyproject 1973waggyproject is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Oct 02, 2019
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgreese
Fairway Green! Nice!

Get the factory service manual right away - should be available as a CD-ROM at RockAuto, or you can get a printed copy from BJ's. Do not bother with the Haynes or Chiltons manuals. There is a '74 manual free to read and download online at www.oljeep.com but '74 was a watershed year or the Wagoneer, and there are important differences in the driveline components.

1973 is the first year for the revolutionary Quadratrac full-time transfer case - it was optional with the automatic that year, and you could have it or the conventional Dana 20 gear driven case. If you have the QT, read this page http://jubileejeeps.org/quadratrac/index.htm

1973 was the last year with only drum brakes available, and the last year for the older closed-knuckle Dana 27 front axle. Most Wagoneers are V8/automatic with PS/PB. There were some examples made in these years with no power or manual transmissions, but they are unusual.

Floors and fenders are the usual rust spots.

Thank you for all of that! Very helpful. I'm excited and hopeful we can make a deal on it. I don't believe it has Quadratrac, it has what looks like a floor mounted shifter(I've attatched a pic below) From what I've heard this could be better than having Quadratrac?(Hard to get chains)?
The floors are thin, but looks to be in overal decent shape. It runs and drives. Carpet's missing inside, but seats look to be in great shape(Possibly a custom?)
I'm really not sure what it's worth the way it sits, It's hard to find a value!

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...080&fit=bounds
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...080&fit=bounds
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  #4  
Old 10-07-2019, 01:06 PM
joe joe is offline
 
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Looks nice for it's age. Keep in mind it's just and old FSJ not an in demand valuable "collector car". Nor would a 73 be a viable/economic daily family hauler/commuter etc. Think more hobby/FUN occasional use car. Easy to work on but, there will be maint and parts finding grief. Though still maint intensive, if your goal is getting into a cheap family SUV type vehicle I'd look for at least a late 70's or later FSJ.
What's it worth? It's worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. Did I mention these are hobby cars?
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  #5  
Old 10-07-2019, 03:08 PM
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UnkleMunky UnkleMunky is offline
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Looks like a Dana20 shifter on the floor in the one pic. Tranny shifter on the column, so assuming auto. V8 badge on the front fender. For the age, it does look decent, but is clearly a fixer upper. Value is subjective. It boils down to what it's worth to you and whether that's worth it to who's got it. Work their angle of whether they really want to keep it or not. Cash in hand....many times talks. Have a lower price in mind and ask them *how close can you come to $$$* and mention the price. They may go for it or come close to it, but you're not insulting them by asking that question....gives them room to name a higher price, and maybe you meet in the middle somewhere.

But bear in mind the things you noted...needing floor/etc. work. That's common with these rigs. Tires look like they may need replacing sooner than later....that's *at least* a few hundred bucks right there you'll have to sink into it pretty soon. How does it run and drive? If work's needed in those areas you'll have more to deal with. Set a high end price you won't go over and don't. Walk away if they won't come down to, or below, that. That goes with any used vehicle purchase....be fully prepared to walk away if that's the case. Another Jeep will come along in the future if so. But if you get this one, then great....you have a starting point.

BTW....what Wranglers do you have? Saw a YJ recently and realized how little you see that vintage of Wranglers these days.

Oh, and welcome! Keep sharing pics, and ask questions along the way if you get this rig.
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  #6  
Old 10-07-2019, 03:30 PM
1973waggyproject 1973waggyproject is offline
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Join Date: Oct 02, 2019
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnkleMunky
Looks like a Dana20 shifter on the floor in the one pic. Tranny shifter on the column, so assuming auto. V8 badge on the front fender. For the age, it does look decent, but is clearly a fixer upper. Value is subjective. It boils down to what it's worth to you and whether that's worth it to who's got it. Work their angle of whether they really want to keep it or not. Cash in hand....many times talks. Have a lower price in mind and ask them *how close can you come to $$$* and mention the price. They may go for it or come close to it, but you're not insulting them by asking that question....gives them room to name a higher price, and maybe you meet in the middle somewhere.

But bear in mind the things you noted...needing floor/etc. work. That's common with these rigs. Tires look like they may need replacing sooner than later....that's *at least* a few hundred bucks right there you'll have to sink into it pretty soon. How does it run and drive? If work's needed in those areas you'll have more to deal with. Set a high end price you won't go over and don't. Walk away if they won't come down to, or below, that. That goes with any used vehicle purchase....be fully prepared to walk away if that's the case. Another Jeep will come along in the future if so. But if you get this one, then great....you have a starting point.

BTW....what Wranglers do you have? Saw a YJ recently and realized how little you see that vintage of Wranglers these days.

Oh, and welcome! Keep sharing pics, and ask questions along the way if you get this rig.

Wow, Thank you so much for all of the help and insight. It's been in the family nearly all of it's life, used only in the summer. They have some records that appear to back up the 26k miles on the odo. There is of course some sentimental attachment to it, but they are downsizing and looking to clean up the barn. Price wise I've been having a hard time finding anything to compare it to around here - But I think we'll be able to come to an agreement.

It honestly runs and drives great, engine runs strong and shifts fine. It was maintained at the local mechanic for all of it's life and appears to have been taken care of mechanically. Tires are definitely on the list for replacements,(They're old) as well as some floor work in the future. The floor is not rusted through in any areas, but does seem thin in some spots. I've been looking for a while and this one seems to hit all of my "needs" on my list.

Right now I have an JK that we've rebuilt after buying it after it was rolled over. Previously owned a few other JK's and TJ's! I agree- YJ's are getting hard to find! Everything old near me seems to be rusted out, which is why I was surprised to see the condition this Wagoneer is in for being so old!

We're going to meet again this weekend and bring a trailer...We'll see what happens! I'll be sure to post some updates (& also likely have tons of questions to ask!)

Thanks again Munky!
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  #7  
Old 10-08-2019, 11:25 AM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Location: Medford MA USA
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It's definitely the Dana 20, not a Quadratrac. I suspected that because I thought it was missing the Quadratrac badge, but I was not sure. The 20 provides high range 2WD (pavement) or locked 4WD, high or low range (loose surface only).

The Quadratrac was amazing in its time. The main issue with the Quadratrac today (other than the newest examples being 40 years old) is that the chain drives both the front and rear axles. Look at the chain from one of these and it's massive compared to modern chain-driven cases where the chain only drives the front axle. This led the chains to have a working lifetime of only say 60K-100K miles before needing replacement. Neglect beyond that point can destroy the transfer case. Quality chains were unavailable for a few years. Currently there is a quality supplier, but they are not cheap and who knows how long this will continue.

Dana 27 closed knuckle front axle, Bendix 11"x2" drum brakes (power? likely), AMC 360 cid V8, GM TurboHydramatic 400 transmission, GM Saginaw power(?) steering, Dana model 20 gear-driven "silent" transfer case, Dana model 44 rear axle with the desirable 1-piece flanged axles, possibly a Dana TracLock limited slip rear differential (a popular option with the 20).

This is a very sturdy, durable, reliable and conventional drive train. All of this should be easy to find parts for, maintain and repair. The only downside of a '73 that I see is the front axle with its high-maintenance closed knuckles, and the drum brakes which most drivers today would consider inadequate. All 4WD vehicles of this era, let alone being nearly 50 years old, need a lot more maintenance and upkeep than you might expect. Drum brakes last maybe 20K-25K miles between overhauls, so I would look at that first. Fortunately, parts for these brakes are cheap and widely available, since they were also used on many Ford light trucks.

They are tough - it's a real Jeep, and was proven in rallies in the day:

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Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk

Last edited by tgreese : 10-08-2019 at 11:43 AM.
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  #8  
Old 10-08-2019, 02:47 PM
1973waggyproject 1973waggyproject is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Oct 02, 2019
Location: Maine
Posts: 9
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgreese
It's definitely the Dana 20, not a Quadratrac. I suspected that because I thought it was missing the Quadratrac badge, but I was not sure. The 20 provides high range 2WD (pavement) or locked 4WD, high or low range (loose surface only).

The Quadratrac was amazing in its time. The main issue with the Quadratrac today (other than the newest examples being 40 years old) is that the chain drives both the front and rear axles. Look at the chain from one of these and it's massive compared to modern chain-driven cases where the chain only drives the front axle. This led the chains to have a working lifetime of only say 60K-100K miles before needing replacement. Neglect beyond that point can destroy the transfer case. Quality chains were unavailable for a few years. Currently there is a quality supplier, but they are not cheap and who knows how long this will continue.

Dana 27 closed knuckle front axle, Bendix 11"x2" drum brakes (power? likely), AMC 360 cid V8, GM TurboHydramatic 400 transmission, GM Saginaw power(?) steering, Dana model 20 gear-driven "silent" transfer case, Dana model 44 rear axle with the desirable 1-piece flanged axles, possibly a Dana TracLock limited slip rear differential (a popular option with the 20).

This is a very sturdy, durable, reliable and conventional drive train. All of this should be easy to find parts for, maintain and repair. The only downside of a '73 that I see is the front axle with its high-maintenance closed knuckles, and the drum brakes which most drivers today would consider inadequate. All 4WD vehicles of this era, let alone being nearly 50 years old, need a lot more maintenance and upkeep than you might expect. Drum brakes last maybe 20K-25K miles between overhauls, so I would look at that first. Fortunately, parts for these brakes are cheap and widely available, since they were also used on many Ford light trucks.

They are tough - it's a real Jeep, and was proven in rallies in the day:


Awesome! I have heard some good things about the Dana 20 so happy that you were able to confirm my suspicions about it having a Dana 20!

Wow, I really appreciate you breaking it down like that, it's so tough to find info about the 73! Everywhere I look I typically see conflicting things, must be because it's somewhat of a transition year?

That's good to hear - I'm planning on using it as a VERY occasional driver around town and plan to restore it slowly while I have time. I know the '73 is not the MOST desirable Wagoneer but I fell in love with it when I saw it - Especially since others I've seen in this area are completely rusted out.

Awesome picture, Thank you for sharing! I truly appreciate all of the help, this is certainly getting me excited and I'll be sure to post pictures this weekend if I do end up being able to bring her home with me!
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  #9  
Old 10-08-2019, 03:57 PM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Location: Medford MA USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1973waggyproject
... it's somewhat of a transition year? ...
Well, 1974 has some important improvements over 1973. 1965 was a transition year, but I'm not sure what transition year means after that. There were changes in components made right along until 1980, some that aligned with the model year changes and some that did not. I don't think there were any changes in 1973 that did not align with the model year change.

There is a drive train database here: http://www.ifsja.org/tech/figures/db.html

I made an error above - the front axle of a '73 is a closed knuckle Dana 30, not a 27.
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Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
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  #10  
Old 10-10-2019, 07:53 AM
1973waggyproject 1973waggyproject is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgreese
Well, 1974 has some important improvements over 1973. 1965 was a transition year, but I'm not sure what transition year means after that. There were changes in components made right along until 1980, some that aligned with the model year changes and some that did not. I don't think there were any changes in 1973 that did not align with the model year change.

There is a drive train database here: http://www.ifsja.org/tech/figures/db.html

I made an error above - the front axle of a '73 is a closed knuckle Dana 30, not a 27.

Got ya, I meant to say before the transition year! Thank you very much, that's helpful. Going to pick up the u haul trailer tomorrow, hopefully the Waggy can fit on it fine. Not worried about towing it with my 2500, Just hoping U Haul's trailer is upto snuff.

Thank you everyone, if you've got anything else to share its much appreciated! I will share pictures shortly. Starting to get very excited!
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  #11  
Old 10-10-2019, 08:51 AM
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babywag babywag is offline
out of order
 
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Either model of the UHAUL trailers is fine for a NT waggy.
The car trailers that I have used have surge brakes and worked just fine.
Even just the dolly worked fine both times I used one.
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  #12  
Old 10-15-2019, 12:54 PM
1973waggyproject 1973waggyproject is offline
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Join Date: Oct 02, 2019
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Hey everyone,
So I DID get the Wagoneer this Weekend... There were some issues with it running when I showed up but I took a chance on it. Got it back, filled it with fresh gas and did some light cleaning and it runs great! Only big issue now is it will only start if you splash a bit of gas directly into the carb... Any idea what could cause that? Other than that very happy with the purchase and got it for a great price!

Here are a few pictures:
https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...080&fit=bounds

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...080&fit=bounds

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...080&fit=bounds
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  #13  
Old 10-15-2019, 01:15 PM
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SOLSAKS SOLSAKS is offline
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congratulations

a new bouncing wagoneer.

glad to hear it runs good.

dave In NC
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  #14  
Old 10-18-2019, 11:49 AM
1973waggyproject 1973waggyproject is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLSAKS
congratulations

a new bouncing wagoneer.

glad to hear it runs good.

dave In NC

Thank you! Any idea on the starting issue? I suspect I should just rebuild the carb but wanted to ask first.
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  #15  
Old 10-21-2019, 04:44 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1973waggyproject
Thank you! Any idea on the starting issue? I suspect I should just rebuild the carb but wanted to ask first.
Once it starts it will idle just fine cold and hot? When you go to start it, pump the gas twice (no more, no less) and then crank the key. Let us know how it goes.
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  #16  
Old 10-21-2019, 08:06 PM
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78 WIDETRAC 78 WIDETRAC is offline
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accelerator pump on carb would be my guess.
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  #17  
Old 10-22-2019, 07:16 AM
1973waggyproject 1973waggyproject is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rang-a-stang
Once it starts it will idle just fine cold and hot? When you go to start it, pump the gas twice (no more, no less) and then crank the key. Let us know how it goes.

Once cold started it has a bit of a low idle and seems to want to die out. If you keep the idle up for a minute or two it idles fine after that. It will even crank back up fine after the first cold start and idle fine. I'll give it a shot and let you know! Thank you!
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  #18  
Old 10-22-2019, 07:17 AM
1973waggyproject 1973waggyproject is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 78 WIDETRAC
accelerator pump on carb would be my guess.

Thank you! I'll have to look into that. I suspect the carb proably needs a full rebuild from sitting most of it's life
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  #19  
Old 10-22-2019, 09:44 AM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Any new-old car that has a carburetor will likely need a carburetor rebuild. Especially after it's been sitting for years. Not difficult - lots of little pieces to clean and keep track of, but your carburetor kit should contain a sheet with an exploded drawing and a list of adjustments. OEM carburetors do not have a lot of adjustments - they are basically designed and tuned for the application, and if put together as the factory specified with fresh gaskets and rubber parts, they work fine.

When I buy a new-old car, I expect to replace all the fluids, ignition parts, belts, hoses and if carbureted rebuild the carburetor. That's in addition to any maintenance or service it might need.

Wow, I like that color! Too bad Photobucket blurs out your pictures. I would (and do) use a different host.
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Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk

Last edited by tgreese : 10-23-2019 at 08:46 AM.
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  #20  
Old 10-22-2019, 10:06 AM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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I agree with TGreese. It also, sounds like the choke isn't closing to me...
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