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  #1  
Old 04-30-2019, 03:13 PM
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ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
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Location: Stephenson County, IL
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Freeze plug replacement question

How hard is it to change out freeze/expansion plugs on the sides of the block? Can I do it with the engine in the Jeep? Mine have always leaked while I've owned the Jeep. Small leak's, but there has always been green driplets hanging off the engine.

I bought some brass plugs from rockauto with my order of other cooling system goodies. I figured that while I change out the radiator, that would be the best time to do freeze plugs too... If I can get to them.
If I'm going to get stuck in the process though, due to limited space under the hood- im not touchin' em! I can deal with topping off the reservoir once a month!

If I can do them, I've got some cleaning ahead of me. Get rid of all the corrosion/dirt/oil first.
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1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...not too rusty anymore
Plenty of patina

The others
1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan 212 I4-CRANK START
1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-5.0 AOD (WD)
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9, A999, 3.90 gear (DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban 5.7, 4L60E, NP241, 3.42 gear (DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0, AW4, NP231, 3.73 (limbo)
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  #2  
Old 04-30-2019, 06:38 PM
gpcl16 gpcl16 is offline
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It depends on which one your trying to replace. Some are easier to get to than others. Invariably the one that's leaking is always the hardest one to get to. That's just how it works.
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  #3  
Old 04-30-2019, 08:14 PM
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Tripwire Tripwire is offline
hey,does anyone here know how to.......
 
Join Date: Jul 30, 2000
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a looooong time ago i had to use a rubber expandable one on a friends car, it seemed to do the trick...dunno if i would use it long term.... but if push comes to shove -
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  #4  
Old 04-30-2019, 08:48 PM
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ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
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Location: Stephenson County, IL
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You sure got that right gpcl16! The one that looks to leak the most is behind the drivers side engine mount.

rubber expandable... I don't know about that... Not sure if that's something i'd want to do... I already purchased brass plugs, they were pretty cheap on RA. I just don't know if I'll have enough space. I like having space to work. If it were up to me, this would be a job to do with the engine on a stand, but I have no plans to pull it out as of yet.
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1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...not too rusty anymore
Plenty of patina

The others
1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan 212 I4-CRANK START
1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-5.0 AOD (WD)
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9, A999, 3.90 gear (DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban 5.7, 4L60E, NP241, 3.42 gear (DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0, AW4, NP231, 3.73 (limbo)
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  #5  
Old 05-01-2019, 02:48 AM
wiley-moeracing wiley-moeracing is offline
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Location: arizona
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they make some special tools to install them with for the hard to reach areas. or you could take it to a shop and have them do it.
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  #6  
Old 05-01-2019, 06:24 AM
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TexasJ10 TexasJ10 is offline
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Waiting is not a good option. Your current seep will be a gush exactly at a time you can least afford it. Plus it is always bad to have antifreeze leaking when all your neighbors are wondering why their pets died.
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* 1982 Laredo j-10, 360, 727, in rough shape and in the process of being rebuilt with 401, NV4500, Klune,
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* 1973 jcab mounted on 1983 j20 frame. 360/t18/208 d44/d60. Almost completed
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  #7  
Old 05-01-2019, 08:45 PM
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ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Nov 18, 2015
Location: Stephenson County, IL
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WileyMoe-
Special tools huh, ok. I'll check out google and see what I can find.

Under my ownership this Jeep has not and WILL NOT be worked on by anyone other than myself(and occasionally dad when he wants to help). I will not pay someone else to work on my Jeep or any of my other vehicles for that matter while I am still able to myself. So that's not an option.


TexasJ10-
It's been waiting for at least the last 3 years that I've owned it. Probably longer with how the po's were. It's only left the bottom of the engine wet. Unlike the radiator that is leaving puddles on the ground every time I drive it...


Neighbors pets have no reason to be in my driveway, and the gravel sucks up any leaks. Only time I notice leaks in the gravel is when there's snow. I don't think modern coolant can even hurt animals or people anymore. Unless your drinkin' it out of the jug!


Hey, anyone know if I can pull the whole engine mount out of the way? Looks like I should be able to get it off the engine, but I don't know if I can pull the whole bracket off the frame.
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1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...not too rusty anymore
Plenty of patina

The others
1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan 212 I4-CRANK START
1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-5.0 AOD (WD)
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9, A999, 3.90 gear (DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban 5.7, 4L60E, NP241, 3.42 gear (DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0, AW4, NP231, 3.73 (limbo)
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  #8  
Old 05-02-2019, 08:33 AM
wiley-moeracing wiley-moeracing is offline
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Join Date: Feb 15, 2010
Location: arizona
Posts: 1,087
What you will need is a floor jack, block of wood and tools, you can remove the motor mounts( 4 bolts hold them to the frame) to get at the freeze plugs. If you do this them you do not need to purchase the off set freeze plug installation tools. it will take a little longer to do this but make sure you change all the freeze plugs while in there. Since you have them out, clean out the holes inside the block and flush them out, you get a lot of sediment inside and this will help your cooling a bit.
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  #9  
Old 05-02-2019, 12:54 PM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Location: Medford MA USA
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The rubber expandable ones are ok. They are mostly used for emergency repairs. We sold those when I worked auto parts counter many years ago, and they seemed to work fine. They don't last forever, but they will last or a few years. I'd keep a spare of the right size with the car, in case I ever had trouble with the one in the block.

https://www.dormanproducts.com/c-354...al-rubber.aspx

They also make a copper expanding plug, but I don't know much about those.


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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
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  #10  
Old 05-02-2019, 10:11 PM
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ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
350 Buick
 
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Location: Stephenson County, IL
Posts: 906
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiley-moeracing
What you will need is a floor jack, block of wood and tools, you can remove the motor mounts( 4 bolts hold them to the frame) to get at the freeze plugs. If you do this them you do not need to purchase the off set freeze plug installation tools. it will take a little longer to do this but make sure you change all the freeze plugs while in there. Since you have them out, clean out the holes inside the block and flush them out, you get a lot of sediment inside and this will help your cooling a bit.
Awesome.

The plan is to change the 3 (6 total)on each side of the engine, even though for the most part it's the 3 on the driver side I'm worried about.
hmmm Clean out... well, I can see about scooping with my hands or vacuuming it out but actually running water through it would be a pain. I was planning on working in the garage, me and a hose in the garage always equals a big mess that ends up everywhere in the building. May have to roll it into the yard outside the building, and that'll be hard with the engine supported by a jack I'd have to loosely remount the engine mount

Coolant always came out if this thing looking clean. Radiator (even though its leaking) look's clean inside as well. I've had(still have!) good heat... Ya think it'd still have sediment and junk in the engine?

What's everybody's thoughts on installing brass plugs? Install dry or with a sealer of some kind?
__________________
1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...not too rusty anymore
Plenty of patina

The others
1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan 212 I4-CRANK START
1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-5.0 AOD (WD)
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9, A999, 3.90 gear (DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban 5.7, 4L60E, NP241, 3.42 gear (DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0, AW4, NP231, 3.73 (limbo)
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  #11  
Old 05-02-2019, 10:18 PM
ZackN920's Avatar
ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Nov 18, 2015
Location: Stephenson County, IL
Posts: 906
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgreese
The rubber expandable ones are ok. They are mostly used for emergency repairs. We sold those when I worked auto parts counter many years ago, and they seemed to work fine. They don't last forever, but they will last or a few years. I'd keep a spare of the right size with the car, in case I ever had trouble with the one in the block.

https://www.dormanproducts.com/c-354...al-rubber.aspx

They also make a copper expanding plug, but I don't know much about those.


I've been doing some reading and have seen others actually get several years out of these things! In the range of 20! To be honest, I was kinda shocked.

Have not seen anything about a copper expanding plug, just regular steel or brass freeze/core plugs.


Ya know guys, I'm not really worried about install much now. What im worried about is how the old ones will come out. Most things on this Jeep are stuck and stubborn. Wonder if they'll cock out for me, or if im going to peel the flat sides like a can and fight for HOURS with the outer rings still stuck in the block!
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1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...not too rusty anymore
Plenty of patina

The others
1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan 212 I4-CRANK START
1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-5.0 AOD (WD)
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9, A999, 3.90 gear (DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban 5.7, 4L60E, NP241, 3.42 gear (DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0, AW4, NP231, 3.73 (limbo)
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  #12  
Old 05-03-2019, 07:40 AM
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Towtruck Towtruck is offline
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Location: Arlington, Texas
Posts: 958
This is a link with photos of the Dorman copper plugs. I'm going to use them on my leaking Jaguar because there's no access to drive in conventional plugs.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...wG3g&gclsrc=ds
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J10 - Body channel (3 inch drop @ front); dechromed; shaved side parking lights, antenna, and hood trim bar. Ford mirrors, roll pans, side exhaust, 16 inch wheels, custom dash, new interior, Edelbrocked 360, HEI, T18/208 (J20), rear disk brakes, goose neck and bumper hitches.
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  #13  
Old 05-03-2019, 08:15 AM
tgreese's Avatar
tgreese tgreese is offline
 
Join Date: May 29, 2003
Location: Medford MA USA
Posts: 11,087
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZackN920
... What im worried about is how the old ones will come out. Most things on this Jeep are stuck and stubborn. Wonder if they'll cock out for me, or if im going to peel the flat sides like a can and fight for HOURS with the outer rings still stuck in the block!
IIRC - drive the point of the bar through the center, and pry it out. Destructive removal.

https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-Proto.../dp/B002FCGE4M
__________________
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
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  #14  
Old 05-03-2019, 08:20 AM
tgreese's Avatar
tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Location: Medford MA USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZackN920
...
What's everybody's thoughts on installing brass plugs? Install dry or with a sealer of some kind?
Permatex #1.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
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  #15  
Old 05-08-2019, 08:25 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Join Date: Oct 31, 2016
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 2,833
When I installed my brass freeze plugs, I rubbed the inside of the hole with a very light coating of "The Right Stuff" black then inserted the plug. My machinist recommended "The Right Stuff" and when I googled it, I saw nothing but good about it (other than cost). So far mine do not leak. I say if you are going to go through the effort of replacing the freeze plugs ALWAYS use brass. They will outlive your engine. Figure on it taking a Saturday. If all goes well, 4 hours but knowing it NEVER all goes well, so a Saturday.

Clean the hole out with a stiff wire brush. Don't get the cheapies from Harbor Freight or you will break one off in your block, then good luck getting it. Get the ones that are about the size of a tooth brush. Also, some emory cloth works well, too. Make sure you do your TStat (195 Degree) while you have your cooling system drained.

Then fill your truck with straight distilled water. Run it like that until (at least) you have had normal operating temps for 20 mins. Turn if off, drain it, pull your rad again, rinse it out, and repeat one or two times. Then just drain the Rad and fill with 2 gallons of green concentrate and Water Wetter.
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  #16  
Old 05-08-2019, 08:31 PM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Oh, and tool:

I started with this (borrowed it from a friend):
OTC Frost Plug tool
HATED IT! Absolute TURD of a tool. It won't work for you anyway (since you are not on an engine stand) but don't buy/rent/borrow a tool like that. wiley-moe always has awesome advice so maybe the offset tool he speaks of is better. I just ended up finding an old crappy socket that fit just inside the frost plugs and tapped it in with a mallet until it was about 1/8" out of the block then gently tapped the plug in the last little bit with a small hammer. It should sit flush to the block when you are done.
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  #17  
Old 05-11-2019, 09:31 PM
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ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
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Join Date: Nov 18, 2015
Location: Stephenson County, IL
Posts: 906
Guy's, I chickened out and said F-it.

I got looking at it more that Friday and figured "this is gunna take me all day". "Probably won't be done until sunday!" So, since it's very slow at the moment, I'm just going to watch it like I've been doing. Actually, after changing the radiator and cleaning under the engine some, I haven't noticed any green driplet's forming yet. and I've put something like 200 miles on it since the radiator change.
I've decided that this IS a job to do if the engine comes out, or if I get access to a lift to put it up on. Laying on the floor underneath for several hours/ all day is a royal pain in the ass!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Towtruck
This is a link with photos of the Dorman copper plugs. I'm going to use them on my leaking Jaguar because there's no access to drive in conventional plugs.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...wG3g&gclsrc=ds
Interesting. I haven't ever come across those before.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tgreese
IIRC - drive the point of the bar through the center, and pry it out. Destructive removal.

https://www.amazon.com/Stanley-Proto.../dp/B002FCGE4M
Interesting looking tool. I have a pry bar about that size, wonder if that would do?
What I was planning on doing is pretty destructive too! Large flathead screw driver and a 5lb hammer... and hope they end up cocked sideways so I could grab em' with pliers. Most likely though-tear out the centers, then fight the outer ringe to get the fudge out of the block...


Quote:
Originally Posted by tgreese
Permatex #1.
cool



Quote:
Originally Posted by rang-a-stang
When I installed my brass freeze plugs, I rubbed the inside of the hole with a very light coating of "The Right Stuff" black then inserted the plug. My machinist recommended "The Right Stuff" and when I googled it, I saw nothing but good about it (other than cost). So far mine do not leak. I say if you are going to go through the effort of replacing the freeze plugs ALWAYS use brass. They will outlive your engine. Figure on it taking a Saturday. If all goes well, 4 hours but knowing it NEVER all goes well, so a Saturday.

Clean the hole out with a stiff wire brush. Don't get the cheapies from Harbor Freight or you will break one off in your block, then good luck getting it. Get the ones that are about the size of a tooth brush. Also, some emory cloth works well, too. Make sure you do your TStat (195 Degree) while you have your cooling system drained.

Then fill your truck with straight distilled water. Run it like that until (at least) you have had normal operating temps for 20 mins. Turn if off, drain it, pull your rad again, rinse it out, and repeat one or two times. Then just drain the Rad and fill with 2 gallons of green concentrate and Water Wetter.
huh, how do ya like that- a place near by me actually has that stuff for a fair price...
Yup, brass is what I got. That's what I kept reading when I was looking this stuff up.

Got the brushes man, with all the crap I do, I got plenty of em'. Also got a variety of the emery cloth but I'm always misplacing that junk, probably take me half an hour to find it.
Tstat? why? I didn't change that when I did the rad swap. It actually looked pretty good(what I could see of it) and works great.

Still haven't looked up that water wetter stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by rang-a-stang
Oh, and tool:

I started with this (borrowed it from a friend):
OTC Frost Plug tool
HATED IT! Absolute TURD of a tool. It won't work for you anyway (since you are not on an engine stand) but don't buy/rent/borrow a tool like that. wiley-moe always has awesome advice so maybe the offset tool he speaks of is better. I just ended up finding an old crappy socket that fit just inside the frost plugs and tapped it in with a mallet until it was about 1/8" out of the block then gently tapped the plug in the last little bit with a small hammer. It should sit flush to the block when you are done.
Yea, that wouldn't work at all for the rusty crap wagon...
I'm always doing that stuff with socket's! Your talking about for install though, right?
__________________
1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...not too rusty anymore
Plenty of patina

The others
1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan 212 I4-CRANK START
1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-5.0 AOD (WD)
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9, A999, 3.90 gear (DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban 5.7, 4L60E, NP241, 3.42 gear (DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0, AW4, NP231, 3.73 (limbo)
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  #18  
Old 05-11-2019, 09:32 PM
ZackN920's Avatar
ZackN920 ZackN920 is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Nov 18, 2015
Location: Stephenson County, IL
Posts: 906
Darn computer double posted...
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1990 Grand Wagoneer-"The Crapwagon"
AMC 360, TF727, NP229, 3.31gears, 2" lift
Rancho 44044, Rusty's 2" AAL, TFI
...not too rusty anymore
Plenty of patina

The others
1926 Dodge Brothers Business Sedan 212 I4-CRANK START
1987 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series-5.0 AOD (WD)
1987 Dodge Dakota LE 3.9, A999, 3.90 gear (DD)
1994 GMC 'Burban 5.7, 4L60E, NP241, 3.42 gear (DD)
2001 Jeep Cherokee 4.0, AW4, NP231, 3.73 (limbo)
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  #19  
Old 05-15-2019, 11:52 AM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
Join Date: May 29, 2003
Location: Medford MA USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZackN920
...
Interesting looking tool. I have a pry bar about that size, wonder if that would do?
What I was planning on doing is pretty destructive too! Large flathead screw driver and a 5lb hammer... and hope they end up cocked sideways so I could grab em' with pliers. Most likely though-tear out the centers, then fight the outer ringe to get the fudge out of the block...
...
You could use anything with a pointy end that you can hammer on. The main advantage of this bar is the end is shaped so you can hammer on it. If you have a big screwdriver with a shaft that goes all the way through to a cap on the top, that might work too.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
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  #20  
Old 05-15-2019, 12:24 PM
rang-a-stang's Avatar
rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 2,833
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZackN920
...So, since it's very slow at the moment, I'm just going to watch it like I've been doing.
Good plan. You're right, its a long awful job. you're laying on your back letting crap fall on your face, down your shirt sleeves, etc. you will also go through about a million pairs of nitrile gloves if you wear them because they get hooked and cut on all the rust and stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZackN920
Tstat? why? I didn't change that when I did the rad swap. It actually looked pretty good(what I could see of it) and works great.
I change my TStat all the time. They are so cheap and easy to replace. Especially when dealing with this type of work. I have had rust chunks plug my TStat and if you are opening your system this much you can be sure, chunks are gonna come loose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZackN920
Still haven't looked up that water wetter stuff
Meh, it's not a huge deal. It helps your coolant exchange heat better. So it pulls heat from your engine better and releases heat in your radiator faster. I had a Ranger with a 5.0HO and it would over heat whenever I would tow anything or drive it in the sand. Added this stuff and it never got hot again. Supposedly it also has anti-rust additives and other blah blah stuff but really I buy and recommend it because it helps your cooling system be a better cooling system.
https://www.redlineoil.com/waterwetter
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZackN920
... Your talking about for install though, right?
yeah. Install.
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