Wasted Spark Ignition

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  • Nick1224
    232 I6
    • Jun 05, 2002
    • 222

    Wasted Spark Ignition

    I have a TBI injected AMC 360 and I was getting horrible noise in the tach signal from the distributor VR sensor....so I got rid of it....all of it.




    Parts for this swap are very cheap, but you do need a computer to control changes to timing. You could use a standalone system such as megajolt ($80), but if you're doing fuel injection, just go full MegaSquirt and enjoy all of the benefits.

    You'll need:
    1.) 2x 4 post Ford EDIS coil packs and their connectors (junkyard - $20)
    -you can get the coils from any 4 or 8 cylinder Ford from the 90s


    2.) Ford EDIS module and connector (junkyard - $18)
    -can be found on the driverside fender of 90's crown vic/towncar/merc. Make sure you cut the harness as far from the module as possible.


    3.) Crank sensor (junkyard - $5)
    -soursed from an e30 BMW. You have to get it from a 325i (the e doesn't have it). A 525 from the early 90's will work too. These can be found on the exhaust side, front of the engine near the crank pulley.

    4.) Ford crown Vic wires (Pepboys $55)
    -ask for the wires from a 1994 Crown Vic. Make sure the wires have clips on the coil side. The cheaper ones don't....not worth the chance of slipping.

    5.) 8x double platinums (Advance Auto 8x ~$4)
    -Use whatever brand you like that are stock for your engine, but they must be double platinum. Wasted spark fires two cylinders at once. One has the gas mixture and one has exhaust mixture. Because the electricity travels through the exhaust plug, a regular plug will corode quickly. Gap to 55. IT seems large, but it will idle so smooth.

    5.) Some shielded wire pairs (junkyard - free)
    - all of the signal wires must be shielded to keep noise out. Grab a bunch just in case

    6.) Bracket to hold the crank sensor (make it yourself)
    - I made it out of 1/4" steel and mounted it to the former mechanical fuel pump bolt holes. (use a new gasket here to avoid leaks) You want to get the center of the sensor over the 36-1 ring and have the gap between the ring teeth and sensor to be about 1 mm. It's very close and I used a feeler gauge to check it a couple times. I also used a hammer on the bracket to "adjust" the gap.

    7.) Crank pulley w/36-1 ring (from ebay seller in England - got here at $55...ouch)
    -This is the most difficult part. You must get a toothed ring on the crank pulley. Ebay listed as: Universal 6.5" diameter 36-1 ECU trigger wheel with 5.25" hole. Seller: trigger-wheels. If you get a different ring...it must be mild steel. No SS or aluminum.

    Wheel must be aligned with gap 5 ahead of the sensor.

    Image from Megasquirt page.

    Here is the basic wiring diagram:
    Last edited by Nick1224; 07-28-2011, 04:44 PM.
    88 GW...6.0/4l80e/241c swap. Just finishing loose ends. Old MSII TBI wasted spark for sale.
  • Nick1224
    232 I6
    • Jun 05, 2002
    • 222

    #2


    From a great site: http://www.google.com/imgres?q=edis+...w=1366&bih=641

    Here is the pinout for the EDIS 8 module:


    You can get those two grounding capacitors when you grab the coils in the junkyard.
    88 GW...6.0/4l80e/241c swap. Just finishing loose ends. Old MSII TBI wasted spark for sale.

    Comment

    • Nick1224
      232 I6
      • Jun 05, 2002
      • 222

      #3
      So here are the pictures of the system on the 360.

      Coil packs mounted on the firewall.





      This is the 36-1 reluctor ring that has been welded to the back of the crank pulley. Freeze the crank pulley and heat the ring to help seat it properly....then weld. You will have to mock this up to see where you need the gap in the ring so that it is 5 teeth of the sensor while the engine is @ TDC (doesn't matter stroke....it fires both anyways).


      This is the sensor mounting bracket bolted to the fuel pump holes. Notice the sensor hidden by the coolant hose.


      View from the front.
      88 GW...6.0/4l80e/241c swap. Just finishing loose ends. Old MSII TBI wasted spark for sale.

      Comment

      • Nick1224
        232 I6
        • Jun 05, 2002
        • 222

        #4
        I will update more when I get more pictures
        88 GW...6.0/4l80e/241c swap. Just finishing loose ends. Old MSII TBI wasted spark for sale.

        Comment

        • PlasticBoob
          All Makes Combined
          • Jun 30, 2003
          • 4007

          #5
          I have the same problem with tach noise at higher RPM, and I wasn't sure if it was coming from the PWM injector drivers, or the HEI coil being so close to the module and tach output wires. Can you confirm what the source of your noise was? I will be adding a crank trigger and iron-tooth Hall Effect sensor when I switch to timing control and a peak & hold injector driver board. Sorry, I don't mean to hijack...just one more question: how are you controlling your injectors?

          Thanks for the great write up, but it belongs in the EFI section. I'll move it in a few days so it gets more exposure here.
          Rob
          1974 Cherokee S, fuel injected 401, Trans-am Red, Aussie locker 'out back'
          Click for video

          Comment

          • Nick1224
            232 I6
            • Jun 05, 2002
            • 222

            #6
            The noise I had was during cranking. It was from the VR sensor in the distributor. Absolutely gone now. I control the injectors with the stock MS2 v3.0 board and I have a honda resistor pack to make them act like highZ injectors.

            I put this here because it can be standalone with megajolt. I would think this would be great even with the carb. I can run the idle much more lean now...which was always a problem when tuning the carb.
            Last edited by Nick1224; 07-28-2011, 08:33 PM.
            88 GW...6.0/4l80e/241c swap. Just finishing loose ends. Old MSII TBI wasted spark for sale.

            Comment

            • yossarian19
              258 I6
              • Nov 13, 2016
              • 402

              #7
              In case OP reads this... thanks a million for posting & hosting the photos.
              I bought a timing wheel from the same vendor in the UK (something like $65 to my door. Ouch, but fits like it was meant to be there) and knocked it onto the back of my crank pulley, using an oven for the timing wheel and a freezer on the pulley to make life easier. From there you can carefully measure high / low spots and true it up with a hammer, then weld.
              A piece of 1/4" plate, like shown, holds the crank sensor. I used a threaded body hall effect sensor instead of the VR sensor, and am having the Megasquirt run my ignition directly instead of thru an EDIS. BBC TBI unit does the fuel.
              It's a great setup and the hardware is all dead easy to figure out, I just took forever trying to do it from my keyboard first, but the 5.25" ID of the timing wheel from trigger-wheels.com is just a press fit onto the back of the crank pulley. Leave the harmonic balancer alone! Runs great (well, OK, I'm still tuning - but it runs better than it did when I bought it)
              Thanks again, Nick!

              Comment

              • PlasticBoob
                All Makes Combined
                • Jun 30, 2003
                • 4007

                #8
                Yossarian, awesome! Would you mind posting a link to the exact wheel you got?
                Rob
                1974 Cherokee S, fuel injected 401, Trans-am Red, Aussie locker 'out back'
                Click for video

                Comment

                • yossarian19
                  258 I6
                  • Nov 13, 2016
                  • 402

                  #9
                  The vendor does not have a specific url or part number but it is the 6.5" OD x 5.25" ID wheel at this link
                  Trigger-wheels.com is UK based; if anyone is ambitious enough to make them stateside I could draw it in cad. If I were drawing from scratch I might make it a slip fit instead of a press fit but hey, this is as close to an off the shelf component as you'd hope to find.
                  I bought the crank sensor from DigiKey here In case the link goes down, it's part number GS100502. The non-threaded version DIYAutotune sells is, I think, part number 55505-00-02-A or similar. Consider buying them from DIYAutotune just to support the company but if you have to buy small parts from DigiKey anyway, hey, save a buck.
                  The bracket I don't have any design info for but it is easy to make from 1/4" plate. Use feeler gauges to set the gap and you are in business.
                  Like I said the trigger wheel is a tight fit on the crank pulley but i did it on the kitchen counter with the pulley frozen, the gear wheel hot and a mallet to tap things home.
                  Last edited by yossarian19; 02-28-2018, 04:56 PM.

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