i did a BAD BAD THING electrical gurus?? knight in shining armor?

[westcoastflea]

i feel so stupid
a dumb blonde moment ?
im a brunette, can there be such a thing

dumb question

since im waiting on a battery charger in the mail to fix the jeep i thought id hunt down the reason for the fuse blowing, seemed like a smart thing to do
right ?

while i was under the dash i decided that i was really sick of all the wires hanging down so figured id do a little spring cleaning

so many things i dont use, i looked at the wiring diagrams, even got colored pens to facilitate things
it all seemed so simple !

i could get rid of cruise control
tailgate window doesnt work so out with those wires
instrument cluster gauges dont work so out with those
dome light courtesy lights clock radio power door locks, the list is endless

just think of all the wires i could get rid of down there!! what joy!!

im a less is more kind of woman

thats where things got really ugly


wire colors dont match
so i try to start at one known area like the dimmer switch

i look at the colors on the switch look at the colors on the diagram and then try to follow where the go and what colors im looking for next and nothing matches!!

its like im lost in the gobi with a map for the sahara

so, what do i do?

since its me of course i think if i take things part the less i will have in the way and the easier it will be to figure things out

WHEN will i learn

so now that ive confessed my sins (whew i feel much better)...

NOT....


WHAT should i do ?

should i get an ez harness? start from scratch?


should i cut everything off about 6" at the fuse box then rewire one at a time to things i need following the diagrams ?

too much mess and too much confusion under there
i cant id half the things
big square boxes, little round metal things

ive tried to id these foreign objects using the wiring diagrams
big black box has x colored wires coming out, look and find matching item in diagram using wire color and it doesnt work

i feel so stupid


chris isaak is singing in my head and he wont go away

baby did a bad bad thing.....did a bad bad thing.....

[Tin Medic]

So, what kind of jeep are we dealing with?

[CheapJeepBrad]

easiest thing:

get a harness fron the pick-a-part. What year?

[Carnuck]

Just a thought, but did you remove the ammeter? Did you rejoin those two wires together? If not, I think we found your dead in the water issue!

[westcoastflea]

hey guys thanks for answering

this is an 84 wagoneer, sorry about that

dead in the water issue was BEFORE i started tearing apart the under dash wiring
found the reason for the fuse blowing
i believe it was the sun roof wiring, it had broken and burned a pinpoint size hole in the roof liner
however ...
im still left with the mess i created
i did just purchase a wiring harness on ebay for 35.00 unfortunately it doesnt come with a fuse box

so im still left with a mass of wires that disappear into the back of the fuse box and i have no idea where they go, what is needed, what isnt
if i take some pics of some of the mystery items can you guys id them for me?

when i get the new underdash harness what should i do when it comes to keeping only the basic wires i use?

i want to get rid of everything that is not needed to drive
so air cruise courtesy dome lites fog lites seat built things warning chimes radio clock lighter power door locks you get the idea
later if i decide to i can hook up things i decide to use

gauges dont work anyway so i could get rid of all the wires etc on that
just keep all exterior lights, windshield wiper
so what should be the first step?
if i take the fuse box off is that another step backward into the pit of no return?
is my goal of less is more under the dash even feasible?
its been done under the hood and i like it seems like you could do it under the dash
of course what would be perfect is for a wiring genius to custom make a harness that powers only what i want powered.

i cant believe i did this (well actually i can no pain, no gain) however i seem to be getting more pain then gain at this point

[westcoastflea]

did the ammeter bypass today
hope i did it right?
large yellow, large red connected to hot side of solenoid
spliced little red wire off the alternator to the large yellow
large red on hot side of solenoid still going to instrument cluster?

how about the round connector thing on the back of the cluster ?

am i safe in assuming i can take that off cut wires to it and pull them through the firewall?
none of the gauges or warning lights work
trying to upload pics but cant dont know why

[Carnuck]

Post the pics on photobucket.com The software here can't handle the load anymore.

[grandjeeper]

ive tried to id these foreign objects using the wiring diagrams big black box has x colored wires coming out, look and find matching item in diagram using wire color and it doesnt work

I'm not sure what you've actually done. Did you cut wires or just disconnect things?

If you didn't cut anything, the best thing to do is to STOP what you're doing, and reconnect the connectors. Then get a diagram of the fuse panel and remove the fuses for the things you don't want energized. Many/most non-essential things are fused separately and will be functionally out of the mix. Besides, it would be easier and probably less time-consuming to just fix the things that don't work than to do what you're trying to do. You really don't want a working instrument panel - don't want a gas gauge? Odd.

Then get some black electrical tape and neatly bundle and tape the loose wires, and tuck them (neatly) up under the dash. Mission accomplished.

Otherwise, focusing on getting rid of stray wires just for the sake of neatness is a long ride for a short slide.

[westcoastflea]

oops
not that i dont want a working instrument panel, gas gauge, tailgate window
but...
they dont work

i dont have the time to fix them

right now i just need a vehicle that runs

so the idea was to get rid of all extras that could and /or are causing issues rather then just putting a band-aid on and hoping it will run for a few more weeks only to cause problems in winter when i DONT want to work on it


just wanted to know if anyone had any ideas about the best way to start this kind of project

[joe]

To bypass the amp gauge just remove one of the wires from it's terminal and move it to the other terminal. Essentially using the 2nd terminal to connect the 2 wires. The amp guage is NOT going to start your car on fire. What causes the fire are loose, dirty connections so make sure the connections at the terminal you use to connect the wires are absolutely clean(shiny clean) and tight. Otherwise you just relocated a potential fire hazard and in turn lost the use of the gauge.
Your goal to remove every wire that isn't needed to make the car run including no gauges is a pretty hearty goal not for the feint of heart. On these rigs and most modern stuff the circuits are so inter-related providing juice to other circuits. I'm too much of a fraidy cat to attempt such a move. If I wanted to remove the sunroof circuit, I'd just pull the fuse. If you want to rebuild your dash harness I'd remove the entire harness "labeling everything" as I go. Spread the old harness out on a board using brads or push pins to separate wires. then one wire at a time make a new clone again labeling everything and mounting to the board like the original. If you're just trying simplify the wiring IHO you're going about it the hard way. Rebuild what ya got. If you do it correctly with quality materials you shouldn't have to dig in again for 20 years.
At least study the schematics at http://oljeep.com/ and see what's what before you start eliminating stuff. Most good auto electric books will have info on just what circuits you need to make the car start/run/stop. It's easier to design a harness for just what you want/need than it is modifying an existing harness. You're a braver soul than I. At least keep good notes on what you do. Removed purple w/tracer between pt A and pt B etc. You'll likely be doing some oh crap backtracking. Keep chanting "clean and tight" and dielectric grease is your foul weather friend.
Best of luck.

[westcoastflea]

i dont know about brave
perhaps just too foolish to realize what a job i have undertaken
i did purchase a wiring harness on ebay for 35.00
the problem with pulling fuses is that some of the items are, as you said, so intertwined that when fuses blow it takes out vital areas that i do need
ive looked at the wiring diagrams, studied the wiring diagrams, see them in my sleep

unfortunately its a crash course as i know nothing about reading diagrams or wiring

the steps you are outlining is basically what i wanted to do haul it all out and run just what i need with new wiring etc


its seems to me that taking the fuse box off would help, but i dont know what might happen and have no idea what is behind it
with my luck things would come popping out everywhere like some kind of mini demented jack in the box's

im assuming the wires run thru firewall into the box ending in the female metal things you see from the front view of the box that the fuses fit into?
also if you dont mind im
a little concerned about the amp bypass
the little red wire attached to alternator (voltage regulator) should go onto the hot solenoid post with the large yellow it was spliced to originally?

and am i just not using the large red amp wire inside the cabin at all?
just keep it up to where it splices into the other red wires that enter the cabin?

thanks sooo much for answering

[joe]

The wires at the ampmeter, at this time don't fret about where they go or where they came from all you need to deal with are the two ends at the gauge. Undo one wire take it off the terminal and move it to the other terminal and secure it. Don't matter which wire or terminal you decide to use so long as both wires are on the same terminal. That's it, you just bypassed the amp gauge. Whatever you previously did to or with the other ends of those wires, put it back to the way it was.
I'm not really one to be giving elec advice. It's always been a simple yet seemingly black art. I have a pretty decent stash of DC elec books I refer to constantly before any project. I've got a great memory...it's just short.
There are lotsa good basic DC elec books out there without getting into the millie micro voodoo electronics world. A couple books for basics I'd recommend to start with are:
"Automotive Wiring and Electrical Systems"- by T. Cadela and "Automotive Electrical Handbook"-by J. Horner. They won't turn you into an electrician but if you study them you prolly won't burn your car to the ground or die a fiery death. Yup factory schematics give everybody a cross eyed headache. Figure out what you need to power then design outward. I personally would "NOT" eliminate a fuse box. Circuits need to be fused and a fuze box is a great and convenient junction point for wiring. Much easier to deal with than individual inline fuses. Or you can go early brit car style and have no fuses at all. it'll work fine till something shorts out then you'll be discharging fire extinguishers faster than you can spit candy from a PEZ dispenser. If you want to design your own simplified harness you don't need to use the mega circuit FSJ fuse box. I've used simple basic fuse boxes from 60's era Datsun pickups. Cheap from a parts store and they have a spot for the turn sig relay. On bikes I've used Centech and BlueSeas fuse boxes. The BlueSeas boxes are very nice and come avail in 6 or 12 circuit variations. If you get a 12 circuit box you don't have to use all 12 circuits. Just use what you need. You'll have to wire in your turn sig flasher as a stand alone unit, no easy plug-in spot.
Point being "you really do want a fuse box" Eliminating the fuse box WILL NOT simplify your wiring or your life.
Get a few books and study up. Though my brain doesn't retain much anymore DC electrickery is pretty simple really... sorta like water, it flows the path of least resistance but then a leaky pipe won't burn your car down. Do some reading, grasp the basics, ask folks smarter than me and you can design your own own wiring harness. If simplicity is your goal I still says it's easier to design/build your own than rework a stock system. You'll use more wire but then you're not trying to save $5 each on a million cars either.In a sick perverted way you may actually have some fun doing it. Good luck on your adventure and remember if in doubt...ground it.