Questions on Bodywork/Painting Cont.

[4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado]

Hehee! I hera ya, just keep pluggin RG!! Youll be happy when youre done!! Remember if you ever have a question post it or call me anytime!!

[Justin Kerns]

Just wanted to say that I just got caught up on this thread and it is AWESOME!! Thanks to Carey and all the others who have asked intelligent questions, etc. I am one of those guys who never thought I could do any bodywork/paint voodoo but now the wheels are turning in my head.

I would love to see this thread get updated and continue. Also, I respectfully feel it should be added to the Tech Archives.

Thanks,
Justin

[4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado]

I'll be adding more pics soon.. I'll be posting pics on prepping, masking, and painting my Chero.. I'm useing PPG Omni on mine, and am doing basecoat/clearcoat in black..

If you have the ability to get the tools, anyone can do body work and painting..

Check out Roadgrimes after pics.. He done the whole thing himself, and I for one am very proud of him.. We all coached him thru it..

This is the busy time of the year for me with work, so time is a prob for me right now.. I havent forgotten this and will continue when I get a chance..

Thanks for the good words!! Carey

[4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado]

I have been prepping the Chero for paint. Ive been taking some pics along the way.

When I prep for paint, I dry sand it with a DA first with 180 grit then go over that with 400 wet.. This method is very fast and you will rarely miss any low spots or dings this way..

Before sanding you need to use a guide coat to be able to see where you have sanded. The gude coat will also show any small low spots or dings youve missed when doing bodywork.. You can either use spray can primer in an color that will shoe easy on the primer. Most primers are gray, so black works best. Or you can use a powder guide coat 3M 01561. I would recommend the powder guide coat over spray. It is very easy to work with.


I use Hutchins DA's for prep work. They sand very smooth..


When sanding next to a high crown or rise in the sheetmetal such as this. Keep the DA away from the rise.. Sand to the rise, but dont allow the DA to touch the rise. This will gouge the rise and will require alot of extra sanding to get it right again.


When sanding next to a drop off like this one, just sand to the drop. Dont let your DA fall off with the drop. Youll ruin the edge if you roll the DA over the edge..

When using a DA for prepp work keep it dead flat, using back and forth strokes. You will want to go in an X pattern every so often. This will create a very flat surface.

I have said in previous post that you can use a DA just like a block. If you keep the DA flat and stay away from edges when sanding. Always keeping the DA moving you can sand a surface very flat with a high quality DA.. You can prep a vehicle for paint very quickly this way.


This is sanding scratches from using 80 grit over bondo.. The guide coat will show any imperfections below the primer..


A closer shot of 80 grit scratches in the bondo.. Just keep sanding and these will go away very quickly. 3 coats of primer will very easily fill 80 grit scratches.


Again when sanding around high crowns. Keep the DA flat and again dont let the DA fall over the edge.. Youll want to sand the rise seperatly keeping the DA flat against the rise with very light pressure against the bottom of the rise. This way you wont gouge the flat area below the rise.


The hood is ready to be wet sanded. Notice the edges have not been sanded with the DA.. We will be doing these by hand with 400 wet..


A close shot of the rise in the hood.. Notice the edge has not been sanded.. Also notice the bend at the bottom of the rise is nice and uniform looking, making this easy to wet prep.

[4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado]

A pic of the hood completly dry sanded, ready for wet prepping. Again notice the high edges and rolled edges have not been sanded.


When sanding I found a little low spot here.. I tried to continue sanding hoping to fill the little ding with primer.. Well I hit bare metal and you can see that the little ding is still there.. I will have to use a bit of two part poly putty to fill the ding since the primer wont.


I have applied a little putty and am sanding it with a DA sheet in 180 grit on a soft block.. Just sand down to the primer if you can. We will finish the putty in 400 when wet sanding.. That way I can just seal it when I'm ready to paint the rig. If you like you could also reprime this spot.. If your not making a show rig that will have to be absolutly perfect, I wouldnt bother.. My rig is a Daily Driver that will be banged up in the high country so this will work just fine..


This is an after shot of the ding repair using poly putty. It still needs some more sanding to get it flat, but I will do that with 400 wet on a block.

[4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado]

The roof was in very good shape.. It didnt need stripped, and just had a few scratches.. I wanted to remove quite a bit of the paint. I used 180 on a Hutchins DA, then I went back over that with 240 grit with the DA.

This grit will be just fine as I am sealing the rig before painting it. The sealer will fill 240 scratches with one coat.. If not sealing, use 320 with you DA to finish it out with..


Pics of feather edgeing with a DA.. I sanded it a litlle more than needed to show you a nice job of feather edgeing.



More pics.


Instead of pulling the windshield. I used rope to lift the windshield rubber away from the rig. This works very well. But I guess pulling your windshield is better.. My windshield is in very good shape, and I wasnt willing to take the chance of breaking it.. I have gotten the rope deep inside of the gasket. The paint will get right down in ther no prob.

Ok here is the dry sanding stage.. I'll be posting the wet sanding stage soon.

Till Later Carey

[roadgrime]

looks good man. im still hoping to see you in ouray this year so we can look at mine and discuss some stuff before i reshoot the lower half of my rig. of course over the summer i am practicing on a hood to get the fine line between smooth paint and runs!

[4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado]

LOL.. I hear ya RG! It is very hard to get a really great finish using enamel, so dont feel bad.. I'll try to make it down there. It will be up in the air till about a week till the meet.. Sometimes I have to work Saturdays and July is a Very Busy month at my work.. I'll let ya know RG..

I'm finally paint my rig this weekend. I'm using Omni basecoat with 161 clear. I'm doing 4 colors in the basecoat.. I'm keeeping that for a surprise to ya all. lol.. It will be kept pretty simple, so I can repair it easilly though. The bill on the epoxy, paint, clear, resperator, masking paper, and tape was $385.00. So Ill have around $550 in materials for the job on my Chero..

I bought the materials for the '57 Chevy I'm doing soon and it was $2700.00. I'm using PPG's best stuff on it..

You can see that my rig is getting the cheap stuff, but will be fine for 4x4n.

I'm planning on a very cool bunch of posts on the whole painting process.. I may not have the post up till this time next week so hang with me. lol..

You can see I added a razor grill.. Yea, I'm sinning.. I'm painting the grill the same color as the rig.. Boohoo, uh.. I think it will look cool. Sorry! Wheels are getting painted to.

Take Care RG!! Carey

[roadgrime]

lol i am thinking bout painting my razor black. just havent figured out how to prep it for paint yet.... looks good though... yea i like the way acrylic sprays just dont likethe way it finishes.

[4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado]

I'll be including prepping a Razor for paint so hang a bit. On the enamel, youll never get a super smooth finish when spraying.. Even factory enamel has quite a bit of peel.. Just keep practicing RG.. If you can get your enamel looking nice, then you can spray anything. Urethanes move alot more than enamels.. Urethanes are very easy to run versus enamel.. Your pick on enamel was good for first time.. Next time use urethane. Youll see the flow characteristics are much different than enamel.

Believe it or not FSJ's are one of the harder rigs to paint because of all the high body lines. Paint collects on body lines creating runs. So to get a FSJ looking really good without a few runs takes some practice/experience.. I'll bet ya even I will have a run or two on mine.. There is an easy fix for that though. I have a rule when painting. If your not getting a sag or lil run somewhere, then your not pushing the paint far enough.. I'm not meaning sheeting it off the rig but just a couple sags or drips tells ya your pushing the limits.. Actually I like to see a lil sag or run here and there.. I know I'm ridin that fine line then.. Like I said, there is a very fine line between runs and a smooth job. It takes alot of painting to know how far to push things.. Please dont feel bad RG, just keep practicing, youll get there!!

I got all the wet sanding pics downloaded, so I soon will be posting them. I havent prepped the grille yet, Ill add that later.

Later, Carey

[4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado]

Ok on to Wet Prepping.. I always wet sand every rig that I paint.. I feel prepping is almost an art.. A nice prep job makes all the difference between average and extra ordinary. It requires lots of patience and persistance to prep a rig really nice.. When your walking around the Car Shows, you can easilly tell the difference between the average prep job and the meticulous ones.

When wet sanding you can use anything from soft spongy blocks to hard rubber. Curved ones, or straight ones, long ones to short ones.. Alot of different blocks are made so depending on what your working on will decide how much to spend and what to use.

I have about every block made in my tool box, but I always fall back on 3M's 05586 hand pad for a daily driver or 4x4 that gets used.
Link:

http://www.autopaintersupply.com/Merchant2/merchant.m vc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=TASI&Product_Code=3551&C ategory_Code=3BPSE

It is a softer rubber type block that just works nice.. If you want a show prep than I would use long blocks, from 6- 12 inches. For my rig, the 05586 will be just fine.. It still does some minor straightening, and you can easilly wet prep a rig in a day..

The longer blocks take patience to use and if you'd like a job for show then you could easilly spend 3-5 days on wet prepping only..


Again, youll need to guide coat the rig after dry sanding. Youll easilly be able to sand out the 180 grit DA scratches from the dry sanding process.. But the only way to know they are coming out is with the guide coat.


I like to use quite a bit of water, but not too much. An old shampoo bottle works nice, or a 5 gallon bucket with a wash mit also works nice.. I refrain from using a running hose as this is just too much water to deal with. Plus you end up with big puddles on the floor.. Its just messy. On a hot day all the water flowing around will keep ya cool thogh. lol

I use the block in the same fashion as the DA in back and forth strokes, alternating in an x pattern stroke. Alaways stay away from edges just like using a DA.. All edges are done by hand. Always keep the block flat, dont spend too long in one spot as this will make a valley in the surface. It will also make what painters call, skid marks. They are block marks that are easilly seen after painting.. Also stay away from major curved areas with a block. Youll gouge them just as you would with the DA.. Either do these by hand or with a curved block, depending on the quality you are after. On my rig I done all my edges by hand(no block)

Again I say ETCH, ETCH, ETCH!!!! If youll either lay down epoxy, etch, corosion resistant primer, or a metal treatment, before priming the rig, it will very much lower any rusting problems on bare steel when wet prepping.. The chemicals in the etches actually mate with the metal, and even though you are at bare metal after dry sanding in places, the metal is still treated with the chemicals in the etch.. Those chemicals can only be removed with grinding.. 180 will not remove them, even though you can see bare metal, youll be fine.. Dont even worry. I have no rust spots on any bare steel I have showing after wet sanding. But if you do, just get some red scotch brite and scuff the rust off any areas you have. You could even retreat any areas with a chemical metal treatment if you'd like..

I will be sealing my rig before painting with epoxy, so I'm not worried about any bare steel showing.


Keep your block flat, and stay away from edges.


Here is how I use my sand paper. Fold it in two and I just tear it apart.


Then I fold it into thirds. This is the paper I will use for hand sanding without the block. When using paper on a hand block, cover one half of the block with the paper and simply fold the half sheet around the block. As it wears you can just turn the paper around.


After using a block, swirl sand all areas by hand, with out the block. This will remove any very small skid marks.


Here I'm sanding the area on the front lower fender behind the bumper.. When sanding by hand, change directions often, and dont stay in one spot long.. This will reduce any chances of finger sanding marks.. You can also use a foam block for this if your a 1st timer. 3M 05530 is the number to use.. Ive done this so long, I can sand by hand and not get finger marks. Finger marks are caused by staying in one spot too long, and since there is gaps between your fingers, the surface will show where your fingers sanded after painting..

[ May 27, 2004, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: 4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado ]

[4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado]

Here I'm doing edges by hand.. Any body lines or high crowns will get done by hand. This way you can round them and make them look just like a factory roll or edge in the sheetmatal. You can control how sharp you'd like the edge to be. You cant do this with a DA or block, only by hand.


Do all edges by hand. Again nice smoothe gaps and edges seperate the average from the extra ordinary. Edges make the job!!


Here I'm blocking the drivers door. Long strokes with a few x strokes will get this plenty flat.


Here the major part of the door is done. You can see the top of the door around the moldings still needs to be done by hand. I've soaked down the door here and am checking for straightness.. The water will show EVERYTHING. Get on a level plane with the door or panel and check very closely before continuing. Dont jump around. Take one panel at a time.


Here I'm doing the top part of the door by hand. It has too hard of a roll in the panel to do with a hard block. If your new, just use the foam block I spoke of.


Here I'm doing my edges by hand. Rolling the edges so they will look factory.


I just loosened the wing window and slid it back some, so the rubber will be easy to tape. I tucked the rubber at the bottom of the wing window inside the door, also not to get paint on them.


Ive also tucked the belt moldings inside of the door. They are hard to remove with out removing the door glass. I replaced them last year so they are flexible enough to tuck. Make sure and sand right to the edge.

[ May 27, 2004, 05:55 PM: Message edited by: 4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado ]

[4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado]

Again........ EDGES!!


Here it is after washing. Soak it down and check everything carefully. You can still change things now. Its better to do it now then be all bummed out after painting cause you have rushed it too much.


The other side. When I was wet sanding I found a little wave in the door. So I added a little putty and blocked it smooth. I've looked it over well. I feel its ready for the paint.

It takes lots of patience and some skill to prep a vehicle. I feel the prep is the most important part of the job. Here is where you create the finished product minus a few mills of paint.

If you guys would like any other pics. Let me know. It all will be covered with paint very soon. I forgot to take some of wetsanding the hood.

Next steps will be seam sealing, masking, prepping a razor grille, final wash down, taking dust, sealing, and the doing a 3 color tapeout on black basecoat, then clearcoating it all.

I am doing a different design then I posted in a previous post, but still am going with a red, white, and blue scheme in an AMC motiff.

Till Later, Carey

ps.. Ive typed pretty quick the last few days. I'll go back and fix all my spelling errors when I get a chance. Sorry bout that!

[JeepBountyHunter]

So far that's looking great Carey, can't wait to see the finished product next week!

[Jester369]

Man, after reading all that I'm actually looking forward to fixing up UGLYTRK! Thanks for all your efforts, Carey. I know a lot of rigs are going to be the better for it!

Erik