Going Diesel Need Opinions

[Bill Moore]

I hope nobody takes my post as a "Don't do it or I'll think your stupid" post. I'm just trying to give the "con" side of the argument. I personally do think older diesels (tier 0, 1, 2) are easier to work on than gas engines. There are plenty of reasons to do a diesel swap. I am not the utmost authority on diesel swaps, but I am a journeyman equipment mechanic in charge of a fleet of diesel powered trucks and tractors. I've worked on cats, cummins, deere, internationals, kubotas, yanmars, etc. My goal there was kind of a reality check. They cost big $$. I can rebuild an injection pump, but they are alot more complex than carbs. For instance, you rebuild a stanadyme pump like are on the Deeres and Internationals and you put the governer in backwards (very easy to do) and those engines will rev to 8000 RPM with NO way to shut them down until they finally blow up. My gf just bought an old ram 50 with a leaky pump. That pump costs 1200, parts alone. We only got it because I know a seal kit is $100 and I can rebuild the Bosch VE pumps. The 2 stroke oil trick works to prolong the life of the mechanical parts of the pumps, not the seals. The new ULSD diesel is actually B2.5 (2.5% bio diesel) The older ones will evantually leak, trust me, I have a fleet of 50 tractors and the older pumps (pre 94ish) have puked their guts out.

Like I said, I don't want to say dont do it, but I am saying, be prepared, do your homework, and make sure its what you really want before you dump big $$ into a swap and regret it.

I just realized I am completely hijacking this post, my bad!

I appreciated your posts, what it said to me is, buy the right engine, put it in for the right reasons, and here are some tips. I had this conversation with a buddy of mine thats doing some of the conversion work I dont have time for at the moment. He builds rock crawlers and doesnt understand the logic of the 4bt, he wants big gas engines, or built ones and horsepower. Im looking for durability, miles per gallon, flexibility of fuel supply, simplicity of design and no electronics, like to put in air starts, but the cost is significant. I baby my vehicles and maintain them well, but not a perfectionist, although unless there is a flaw, or catastrophic failure, I figure a 4bt repower is a lifetime conversion. I like that idea. Plus it has plenty of power to do the job, all the while getting 25 to 30 mpg.

[iroc86]

Isuzu makes the Duramax don't they ? or designed or something like that ?

Yes, that's right. This page describes the GM-Isuzu relationship pretty well.

[seamus]

I'd go with the 12 valve if your not going with a full race application. I have driven VE and P pumped 12 valces and I can tell you that my 24V with a chip will run circles around them BUT... The install would be much more complex, plus, if your going to P pump the 24 V, you would lose most (not all, but most) of the reason for getting the 24 valve. Add into that that most 98 and 99 and some 00 and 01 24v should be out of the question due to the "53" code brazil block that likes to crack and your going to have a hard time finding a good one. I can tell you that a bone stock 4wd 2500 dodge extra cab long bed has power to spare with the P pump, which means in something as light as a j-truck, that engine will have PLENTY of power.

Something for everybody to keep in mind though. These diesel engines were built to tow in trucks, or for the economy in cars. Other than the new CRD engines, they are not rocket ships. Bone stock they are only going to rev to about 3 grand and it will take them awhile to get there. Its in their design and the fuel they use. I'm not going with a diesel swap, even though I am a diesel mechanic, for just that reason. Gas engines are for horsepower and fast revs, diesels are for torque and pulling. Use your Jeep for mud much? You'll be watching your turbos puke up there turbine wheels. Live in a cold place? startings gonna be fun. I hate to burst anybodys bubble, but those diesels you see in the magazines have a ton of $$$ put into them to make them handle that power. And if your not a diesel mechanic, repairs are more expensive. If the injection pump goes out or starts leaking which will happen to the older pumps when run on the new standard ULSD diesel or bio-juice, your looking at $1000 plus to fix it for parts alone.

I'll get off my soap box now. I've just seen way too many people buy diesels to be cool and think that out of the box they act like the ones in the magazines only to end up either selling them because they can't afford the repairs or blow them up because they don't know what theyre doing.

Ve pumped 12v's can be strong performers, especially if they are in a vehicle that weighs 2500 lbs less than my 2005 3500.
The real advantage of the 12v is simplicity and longevity, neither of which can be applied to the common rail engines.

My 12v should be about 350 hp 600+lbft when everything is done, it should be a reasonable performer

[lobie]

Ve pumped 12v's can be strong performers, especially if they are in a vehicle that weighs 2500 lbs less than my 2005 3500.
The real advantage of the 12v is simplicity and longevity, neither of which can be applied to the common rail engines.

My 12v should be about 350 hp 600+lbft when everything is done, it should be a reasonable performer

Agree. The 12v is a great engine. I am using the VE pump and think it is plenty for the application. The p pump is just an added bonus!

[ReevesDiesel]

Wow, there are a ton of opinions on this thread. I guess the reality is, it all boils down to brand preference, all of the engine choices discussed are excellent engines and will render years of reliable service.

I have experience with multiple conversions and I have not had the courage to use a 4l80e, to my knowledge the entire transmission is designed for high revving gas/diesel engines. I guess I fear I will never get the shift points in the right place. I typically use the 4bt or 6bt, I have installed both engines in fsj's. So I opt for the 47RH and the TF727.

There is no doubt in my mind that the early Cummins engine are as simple as they come. With minimul effort scourcing parts does not have to be overly expensive.

If at all possible I would recommend seeking out running vehicles with the different engine choices you are contemplating. At the very least hear them crank up and run. Ultimatley, I earge you to get behind the wheel of them and see how the different choices feel to you. It could make all the difference!
Aaron Reeves

[The PIG Smith]

Welcome Aaron Reeves!
I've been watching your projects on Facebook and very impressed with you work and attention to detail.

[ReevesDiesel]

Oh, thanks man. We sure have fun, it does not always go as planed but we always make it work!

[Towtruck]

I'm holding out for the GM 4.5 V8. Any rumors?

[Towtruck]

Isuzu 4bd fans should check out the engine that went into this Ford pickup...vicinity of page 36 in the string....mega power and 30 mpg. Also as discussed in the Street /Performance section below, it appears this Crown Vic IFS swap would work on a FSJ. (Thanks, Bigun)

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/716058-buildup-06-crown-vic-front-suspension-into-67-f100.html

[Carnuck]

4BT for simplicity. Nissan SD33T (non-turbo was available from the factory J10s except in the US)

Did you guys know Mack trucks run Renault diesels?

[billyj7175]

I'm holding out for the GM 4.5 V8. Any rumors?

I'm late in the game here, but I sold the tube-steps off of my 08' Silverado to a guy that works for GM (not sure where exactly he worked). We got to bs'ing and he mentioned that before the economy tanked and the great-bail-out occurred, GM had a smaller diesel (he called it the mini-max) in the works, aimed at the 1/2 truck and suburban/tahoe line. Whether or not there's any truth to that I have no idea...

[fiero377ci]

DETROIT

call me different, but i would go straight for a 4-53t detroit, 2 stroke. nothing turns heads like the sound they make. another thing is they put out significantly more power than a 4bt, 175 vs 130 or so, and something like 400 ft lb. they certainly weigh more though, and are getting hard to find. (i havent found one in years of searching). another plus is they can bolt straight to a gm standard transmission, pretty sure automatics are harder to adapt for some reason

[Carnuck]

I had planned on putting the Isuzu NPR 4BD2TC I have in a Jeep with the later AW4 type trans (it has an overhauled Jatco 4 speed auto. Not my fav but okay for 120K miles under load) The shop I bought the truck from was upset because they popped the headgasket driving the truck to the trans shop in low gear the whole way. (Duh!) It didn’t work for them to blame the shop so the $3K spent on the trans was wasted unless they fixed the motor ($1000 I was quoted or $3K with new liners and rebuilt too)
Basically it’s a “copy” of the 4BT and most are over 500,000 miles by now. (Less than 200K on this one)

I’ll be selling it complete for parts only ($1500 without the nearly brand new tires or I’ll fix it and sell the Grumman with TBI SBC 350or400 and 4L80E and fix/drive the Isuzu to Kingsport after selling our cabin and property out west)

[mattmopar440]

call me different, but i would go straight for a 4-53t detroit, 2 stroke. nothing turns heads like the sound they make. another thing is they put out significantly more power than a 4bt, 175 vs 130 or so, and something like 400 ft lb. they certainly weigh more though, and are getting hard to find. (i havent found one in years of searching). another plus is they can bolt straight to a gm standard transmission, pretty sure automatics are harder to adapt for some reason

Ive seen the 4-71 4.7L Turbo Supercharged on Ebay I wanted to buy it so bad and has way more power than a stock 4bt @175hp

[mattmopar440]

call me different, but i would go straight for a 4-53t detroit, 2 stroke. nothing turns heads like the sound they make. another thing is they put out significantly more power than a 4bt, 175 vs 130 or so, and something like 400 ft lb. they certainly weigh more though, and are getting hard to find. (i havent found one in years of searching). another plus is they can bolt straight to a gm standard transmission, pretty sure automatics are harder to adapt for some reason

Ive seen the 4-71 4.7L Turbo Supercharged on Ebay I wanted to buy it so bad and has way more power than a stock 4bt @175hp