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Old 03-06-2013, 11:41 AM
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Iceman0502 Iceman0502 is offline
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Hydroboost Setup with 6bt

Everyone is doing it and knows to get there setup from Elliot.

- But what hoses are you using? Stock chevy dually or custom braided?
- Is the thread pattern on the dodge 6bt power steering pump the same as the Jeep/ chevy hoses.
- Use the stock proportion valve with front disc and rear drum setup?
- What master cylinder - pre 1980 jeep or stock astro?

I have read through elliots thread, an theres so much information.
Can a complete swap be accomplished by buying his hydroboost on ebay and then going to rock auto and buying new hoses from a 1989 chevy K300 (pump to hydroboost and hydroboost to gear), master cyclinder from a pre 1980 jeep (or astro).
Seems to me like a $500 investment (not complaining)
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:24 PM
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Most of it will be custom. Many different ways to complete it. You can purchase an adjustable prop. valve, or use the stock valve with stock power master cylinder. If you convert to 4 wheel disc, you will need a 4 wheel disc master.

I had to rotate my booster so the accumulator didn't interfere with the engine. It is a tight fit with the 6bt.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:08 PM
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Not there yet on my build, but these are all questions I am going to have to answer eventually as well. So, good question!
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:05 PM
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I too had to rotate the setup like poolmike. I had my hoses made locally as the length was different. Also, just because it is long enough on paper doesnt mean it will rotate enough to be connected. By the time I figured out what shipping would be and still not be 100% certain it would fit, the difference monitarily was negligible. The peace of mind knowing it would fit was well worth the few extra dollars...... and supporting a local business.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tndonor
I too had to rotate the setup like poolmike. I had my hoses made locally as the length was different. Also, just because it is long enough on paper doesnt mean it will rotate enough to be connected. By the time I figured out what shipping would be and still not be 100% certain it would fit, the difference monitarily was negligible. The peace of mind knowing it would fit was well worth the few extra dollars...... and supporting a local business.
I don't know if I need to rotate my setup yet, but X2's on everything else he said. And the hoses don't necassarily need to be the braided.
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Old 03-07-2013, 02:55 PM
Swampfox89 Swampfox89 is offline
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I got my hydro unit and master from a mid 90's "Super Duty". Just found something that had disc front and back to match my truck. The 6BT that I used had an air compressor and a strait hydraulic pump on it with a remote tank. I rotated the hydro unit on the master to clear the engine, the brake lines are close to the p-pump. Doesn't matter if you have a ve pump. Ha the lines custom made at a local shop. Was all pretty strait forward.




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Old 03-07-2013, 08:48 PM
poolmike poolmike is offline
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With the above set up, there is no fuel shut off solenoid. There would be interference with the brake lines for sure. Chevy M/C's get plumbed on the opposite side.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:51 PM
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http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/
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Old 03-08-2013, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lobie
Excellent website. Thanks for sharing. Just added it to my desktop.

This thread has some good info. I'm almost done painting my cab. Once I mount it I'm going to need this info.
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"What year is my truck?... Which part?" Build thread- http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/view...p=18290#p18290
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Old 03-08-2013, 10:05 AM
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Does anyone have a hose routing diagram? Needs to include hydroboost, power steering pump, oil cooler, steering gearbox and optional steering assist cylinder and optional filter.
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resbum
Excellent website. Thanks for sharing. Just added it to my desktop.

This thread has some good info. I'm almost done painting my cab. Once I mount it I'm going to need this info.

I used the "field" fittings. They are reusable and you can do them yourself.
http://www.discounthydraulichose.com...ings_s/107.htm
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Old 03-08-2013, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ross80truck
Does anyone have a hose routing diagram? Needs to include hydroboost, power steering pump, oil cooler, steering gearbox and optional steering assist cylinder and optional filter.

Don't have a diagram but this is the route:
PS pressure to hydro boost
Hydro boost to gear box (hydro return to tank)
Gear box to cooler
Cooler to filter
Filter to tank
Tank to PS inlet (unless tank is attached to pump)

For the hydro assist, both lines run to an from the gear box. Not sure which but you could look at a gear box flow diagram.

That's how I ran my setup. I tapped the gear box for future use and put plugs in the holes. I tapped it when I rebuilt the box. Some do it when its together but I don't see how they get all the shavings out. I guess blow them out???
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ross80truck
Does anyone have a hose routing diagram? Needs to include hydroboost, power steering pump, oil cooler, steering gearbox and optional steering assist cylinder and optional filter.
This is a really low quality picture I just found buried in a folder, in the "Jeep build notes" section of my computer. Hope you can view it. If I remember correctly it's a GM diagram.
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Last edited by Resbum : 03-11-2013 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:55 PM
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loosewrenchcowboy loosewrenchcowboy is offline
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why?

Ok so i gotta ask-why in the world does everybody doing a cummins swap switch to hydroboost? Dodge cummins trucks 1989-1998 all used vaccumm assist brakes. 1999 and up i have no idea. Heck if it works for a crew cab 4x4 dually.....? Unless ur running rockwell 2 1/2 ton axles and 44 inch tires, or swapped on huge 4 wheel discs, i'm clueless why you'd spend another $1,000 to stop ur jeep. I've heard complaints about the stock jeep stuff being weak, but after replacing my rubber brake lines with braided stainless, & running the stock brakes and master, with the factory cummins power steering pump/vaccumm pump i almost skipped my daughters head off the dash in a panic stop-man i got an ear-full for that.
And if u swap to hydroboost, how do u run the climate control system that is vaccumm powered?
i'm at a loss.
Ok, now somebody take me to school, lol

Last edited by loosewrenchcowboy : 03-28-2013 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 03-28-2013, 10:37 PM
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The last post says it the best. Why spend so much on hydroboost.

My reason is for towing pruposes.

As far as paying 1000 dollars, no thanks. Its funny that you can buy the unit on ebay from elliot for 400 and bj so the same unit for 600.

Anyone try to use a junkyard unit. it looks as though everyone else is doing it. A used unit cost 50 - 100 bucks.


I was thinking of buying one from a 95 astro and it should bolt right to the stock aluminum block. The astro MC will be used as well.

My big question is..... Why do people install a spacer between the hydroboost and aluminum block. Is this to set the proper rod length to the pedal? Coudl I just cut/sleeve/weld the stock rod to shorten it?
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Old 03-29-2013, 06:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loosewrenchcowboy
Ok so i gotta ask-why in the world does everybody doing a cummins swap switch to hydroboost? Dodge cummins trucks 1989-1998 all used vaccumm assist brakes. 1999 and up i have no idea. Heck if it works for a crew cab 4x4 dually.....? Unless ur running rockwell 2 1/2 ton axles and 44 inch tires, or swapped on huge 4 wheel discs, i'm clueless why you'd spend another $1,000 to stop ur jeep. I've heard complaints about the stock jeep stuff being weak, but after replacing my rubber brake lines with braided stainless, & running the stock brakes and master, with the factory cummins power steering pump/vaccumm pump i almost skipped my daughters head off the dash in a panic stop-man i got an ear-full for that.
And if u swap to hydroboost, how do u run the climate control system that is vaccumm powered?
i'm at a loss.
Ok, now somebody take me to school, lol

It's a much better braking assist system with better technology. Not sure where $1000 came from. If you shop around you can do it for much less. I swapped it in my suburban for around $300. In my jeep its hard to price it as I swapped out the whole drive train. I paid $150 for the 2006 Ford hydro system. I like the hydro boost a lot better. Its not just for towing.

Here's a link you should read and draw your own conclusions.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...s/#Vancoreview
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Old 03-29-2013, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loosewrenchcowboy
Ok so i gotta ask-why in the world does everybody doing a cummins swap switch to hydroboost? Dodge cummins trucks 1989-1998 all used vaccumm assist brakes. 1999 and up i have no idea. Heck if it works for a crew cab 4x4 dually.....? Unless ur running rockwell 2 1/2 ton axles and 44 inch tires, or swapped on huge 4 wheel discs, i'm clueless why you'd spend another $1,000 to stop ur jeep. I've heard complaints about the stock jeep stuff being weak, but after replacing my rubber brake lines with braided stainless, & running the stock brakes and master, with the factory cummins power steering pump/vaccumm pump i almost skipped my daughters head off the dash in a panic stop-man i got an ear-full for that.
And if u swap to hydroboost, how do u run the climate control system that is vaccumm powered?
i'm at a loss.
Ok, now somebody take me to school, lol


Ever driven a hydroboost equipped rig? I put it in my M715 -- 4 wheel drum brakes and it stops like a car, it's awesome. I think braking is a spot where I don't mind spending money.

If you run a hydroboost on a Cummins, you still have a vac pump to run the rest of your heater controls...
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Old 03-29-2013, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman0502
Anyone try to use a junkyard unit. it looks as though everyone else is doing it. A used unit cost 50 - 100 bucks.


I was thinking of buying one from a 95 astro and it should bolt right to the stock aluminum block. The astro MC will be used as well.

My big question is..... Why do people install a spacer between the hydroboost and aluminum block. Is this to set the proper rod length to the pedal? Coudl I just cut/sleeve/weld the stock rod to shorten it?

You don't want to weld the HB brake rod as there are two seals inside the HB casting that will cook. I had a guy go through three new hydroboosts that way before he came to me so he had wasted a ton of $.

The '95 Astro makes a good choice, especially the one with the spade shaped rod end (vs round rod end) that has the 5/8" hole you can directly bush down to your 7/16" pedal pin. The other rod end has to be drilled up from 1/2" to 9/16" before you can bush it to 7/16". The rod is 1" too long. If you don't mind air going through the firewall (like on a rock buggy) you can simply use 1" round spacers on the bolts between the firewall block and the flat Astro mounting plate..... or duct tape it to keep the air out Otherwise just take a piece of 1"x1/8 flat stock and bend it around the studs, weld the ends and paint it for your 1" spacer.

Two things I don't like about the Astro units is for whatever reason they get super dirty under the hood and that stuff can cake on there hard which is a real pain to clean up, and then they don't give quite as strong of braking as the 1 ton units. On any used unit you pick up try and determine it is not leaking out the tail of the casting where the rod comes out (a little seepage is normal) or the front of the HB (there is a notch at the bottom where heavy flow can travel).

The reason for seals leaking is usually from old PS fluid/wrong PS fluid and old hose particles that float in the system and turn to shellac on the large internal piston. That shellac can build up and displace the seal. Synthetic PS fluid is thinner and works around seals earlier. All PS fluids are not the same and I recommend a GM part # for fluid about four posts down in my thread in the homegrown vendor section or you can follow more tech at my site www.custompowerbrake.com

Depending on your setup you can conceivably do a complete (used) HB install for under $200 Just remember filters and coolers are the HB's friend and unless you have a two return line system both of those should go in the line between the steering box and the Tee fitting for the HB on the way to the pump so there is no back pressure into the HB.


Now, I guess I should add something in here for the original question. The largest small truck vacuum booster on a gas operated rig will give you a max of about (and I think I am being generous here) 1700 psi at the front caliper if you run the stock cam and have OEM vacuum pressure. Most large disc calipers require 1600 psi as far as I know. Using a one ton hydroboost with the right MC can produce up to 2,800 psi at rpm, or about 2,400 psi at idle. The guy who took this gauge pic for me (at idle) would likely have gotten about 2,600-2,800 at rpm depending on his pump output: Pics are thumbnails


This pic of Stu's TJ with an HB system he put together with a one ton MC/HB was getting 2,600psi at idle so you know he is going to pull 2,800 or more at rpm:


AMC pumps run about 1250 psi and will operate a HB but you can change up the valving to get the 1500 psi most HBs (the ones without the relief valve) are designed for. Also, keep in mind that accumulator is set to take 1500 psi to give you the fullest charge for full power brake pedal applications in the event of a stall or broken belt so if your pump is only putting out 1250 psi you won't have as much back up pressure in the accumulator.
Hope that is all useful info.
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Last edited by Elliott : 03-29-2013 at 08:07 AM.
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Old 03-29-2013, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loosewrenchcowboy
Ok so i gotta ask-why in the world does everybody doing a cummins swap switch to hydroboost? Dodge cummins trucks 1989-1998 all used vaccumm assist brakes. 1999 and up i have no idea. Heck if it works for a crew cab 4x4 dually.....? Unless ur running rockwell 2 1/2 ton axles and 44 inch tires, or swapped on huge 4 wheel discs, i'm clueless why you'd spend another $1,000 to stop ur jeep. I've heard complaints about the stock jeep stuff being weak, but after replacing my rubber brake lines with braided stainless, & running the stock brakes and master, with the factory cummins power steering pump/vaccumm pump i almost skipped my daughters head off the dash in a panic stop-man i got an ear-full for that.
And if u swap to hydroboost, how do u run the climate control system that is vaccumm powered?
i'm at a loss.
Ok, now somebody take me to school, lol


Whatever floats your boat. I have built 3 hydroboost cummins powered FSJs and I couldn't be happier. Cost is closer to $100 using junkyard parts.

Besides, if you use a hydraulic clutch, going with a vacuum booster can be problematic. If you need vacuum for the heater, you can still use the PS/Vac pump most CTD dodges came with.
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:27 PM
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Been cruising in my M715 for 5 years with Hydroboost out of a '86 Chevy K30 donor truck. It worked great or so I thought....yesterday I swapped in a 4 wheel disc master cylinder from a '03 Silverado 3500 with a Wilwood adjustable prop valve. What a difference. If I get into the brake pedal, my seatbelt better be fastened or I'll be eating the windshield.
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