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  #1  
Old 08-05-2020, 02:48 AM
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Brynjminjones Brynjminjones is offline
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1991 - Hard to Fill Gas Tank

This might be a stupid question, but I'll go ahead!

Lately my '91 GW has become incredibly difficult to fill with gas. The pump will repeatedly click off and there's not much I can seem to do about it.
I've tried different stations & pumps but they're nearly always the same.

I've tried all kinds of positions with the nozzle (including upside down), but nothing really works very well at all.
I have to mess about with it so much that it's getting far too much attention from the people around!


It never used to do this, it would always fill up easily enough before.

What could be causing this?
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1991 Grand Wagoneer - Hunter Green. All stock. Rebuilt 360 with Melling MTA-1 cam.

1998 Cherokee (XJ) 4.0
1997 Grand Cherokee (ZJ) 4.0
1974 Ford F100 390
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  #2  
Old 08-06-2020, 09:37 AM
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Do the pump nozzles there have the anti-fume boots on them?
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  #3  
Old 08-06-2020, 10:49 AM
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Brynjminjones Brynjminjones is offline
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Fortunately not, just very simple nozzles.
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1991 Grand Wagoneer - Hunter Green. All stock. Rebuilt 360 with Melling MTA-1 cam.

1998 Cherokee (XJ) 4.0
1997 Grand Cherokee (ZJ) 4.0
1974 Ford F100 390
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  #4  
Old 08-06-2020, 11:14 AM
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SlowGear SlowGear is offline
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Similar issue with mine traced to a kinked vent hose between the tank and filling port.

All the gas stations that I use have the anti-fume device on the gasoline nozzles which compounded the issue.
Prior to replacing both the fill and vent hoses I had to fill the tank painfully slowly.
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Old 08-06-2020, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brynjminjones
Fortunately not, just very simple nozzles.
lucky!
around here that's all there is and they're a royal PITA
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  #6  
Old 08-06-2020, 01:49 PM
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Brynjminjones Brynjminjones is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
lucky!
around here that's all there is and they're a royal PITA

Yup, I was lucky enough to experience those when I was in CA a couple of years back!
Even with the new(ish) WJ Grand Cherokee we were driving I found it a PITA!

Mike, thanks, I've just been out to look and I can't see anything at all wrong with the hoses. It does seem pretty unusual to me though that the vent hose is almost the size of the fill hose. Is that normal?
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1991 Grand Wagoneer - Hunter Green. All stock. Rebuilt 360 with Melling MTA-1 cam.

1998 Cherokee (XJ) 4.0
1997 Grand Cherokee (ZJ) 4.0
1974 Ford F100 390
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Old 08-06-2020, 09:08 PM
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SlowGear SlowGear is offline
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Quote:
It does seem pretty unusual to me though that the vent hose is almost the size of the fill hose. Is that normal?


Yup, the fill and vent hose are pretty close to the same size, at least externally.

The kink in my vent line didn't seem like it would be enough to prevent it from working but short of dropping the tank, replacing the fuel and vent line was the only thing that I could do. Given their age it needed to be done anyway.
I purchased them from BJs - they are model specific so have the correct bends and length. Swapping them out was easy.

I was somewhat surprised this resolved the problem. $75 generally doesn't fix much on my rig
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  #8  
Old 08-07-2020, 01:52 AM
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Brynjminjones Brynjminjones is offline
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You're not the only one - nothing seems to be as cheap as $75 on mine either!

One thing I'd forgotten about is that I did have to move the vent line, as it was in the way when replacing one of my rear shocks.
I've just had a look and the hose bracket by that shock was causing a very, very slight kink.

I've just loosened and straightened it a touch. I'd be very surprised if it had any effect, but it's the only thing that could possibly have changed.
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1991 Grand Wagoneer - Hunter Green. All stock. Rebuilt 360 with Melling MTA-1 cam.

1998 Cherokee (XJ) 4.0
1997 Grand Cherokee (ZJ) 4.0
1974 Ford F100 390
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  #9  
Old 08-10-2020, 01:09 AM
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Brynjminjones Brynjminjones is offline
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Filled it again this weekend (no surprise there!) and it was just as difficult as always.
Despite trying loads of different angles, the pump must have clicked off 25+ times!

Is there anything else I can look at that could cause this?
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1991 Grand Wagoneer - Hunter Green. All stock. Rebuilt 360 with Melling MTA-1 cam.

1998 Cherokee (XJ) 4.0
1997 Grand Cherokee (ZJ) 4.0
1974 Ford F100 390
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  #10  
Old 08-19-2020, 01:57 PM
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bluehwy bluehwy is offline
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I had that problem in the past but it was related to an added auxiliary tank not put inline correctly with the stock tank. Interested to know how/when you figure it out.
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  #11  
Old 08-20-2020, 02:12 AM
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Brynjminjones Brynjminjones is offline
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Yeah, I'm still working on this so will report back when I figure it!

I've had the interior panel off and the metal filler neck all looks fine (not damaged in any way) from the back.

I expect I'll end up replacing the soft hoses at some point if this continues.

Stupid question maybe, but does the charcoal canister have any impact on this? I know it has something to do with venting the tank but I assume it shouldn't affect filling of the normal vent tube is okay?
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1991 Grand Wagoneer - Hunter Green. All stock. Rebuilt 360 with Melling MTA-1 cam.

1998 Cherokee (XJ) 4.0
1997 Grand Cherokee (ZJ) 4.0
1974 Ford F100 390
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  #12  
Old 08-21-2020, 01:05 AM
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Brynjminjones Brynjminjones is offline
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I feel a bit stupid now...

I ended up having to fill at a different station to normal yesterday, where the Wagoneer filled up with the pump on full flow with no issues whatsoever, right until it clicked off when full!

It looks like maybe the pumps at the Costco I usually use might well be the problem.
It's a shame as gas is much cheaper there than anywhere else!

Filling up with no issue seemed like a real luxury
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1991 Grand Wagoneer - Hunter Green. All stock. Rebuilt 360 with Melling MTA-1 cam.

1998 Cherokee (XJ) 4.0
1997 Grand Cherokee (ZJ) 4.0
1974 Ford F100 390
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  #13  
Old 08-21-2020, 07:37 PM
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bluehwy bluehwy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brynjminjones
I feel a bit stupid now...

I ended up having to fill at a different station to normal yesterday, where the Wagoneer filled up with the pump on full flow with no issues whatsoever, right until it clicked off when full!

It looks like maybe the pumps at the Costco I usually use might well be the problem.
It's a shame as gas is much cheaper there than anywhere else!

Filling up with no issue seemed like a real luxury

Oh wow. Crazy. Cheap upfront fix but don't run the numbers for your new found luxury...
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  #14  
Old 08-27-2020, 06:44 PM
Dave Jeeper Dave Jeeper is offline
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The venting on the tank can make the pump shut off if it is not perfect. I had a toyota avalon that I overfilled with gas and the charcoal canister got clogged. The tank would then not fill and the pump would shut off until I replaced the canister and vent lines.


In addition to the fill vent from the gas cap to the tank, you have two small diameter vent lines that run from the top of the tank to the engine compartment where the charcoal canister is located. The canister can cause a problem with venting. Also the two thin vent lines often clog up. One symptom of this is that after running the vehicle for 30 to 60 minutes, if you open the gas cap you will get a huge rush of air and gas vapors. blowing out the vent lines with compressed air will fix the pressurization issue and should fix the fill shut off issue.
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  #15  
Old 08-28-2020, 01:43 AM
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Brynjminjones Brynjminjones is offline
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That's interesting, I had been wondering about my charcoal canister too.

I've actually recently (since last fill up) repaired the canister and hooked it up again, as it was previously disconnected from the vacuum lines but still connected to the gas tank.
Strangely, the engine bay never smelled like gas before but did for a little while after first hooking it back up.
After a couple of drives the smell has entirely disappeared.

I'm wondering if those vent lines could have been clogged, and connecting vacuum may have cleared them out.

I'll try filling the tank at the Costco I've been having trouble with and see how I get on!
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1991 Grand Wagoneer - Hunter Green. All stock. Rebuilt 360 with Melling MTA-1 cam.

1998 Cherokee (XJ) 4.0
1997 Grand Cherokee (ZJ) 4.0
1974 Ford F100 390
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