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Old 07-28-2016, 12:44 PM
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Probesport Probesport is offline
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Location: Metro Detroit
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Fuel injecting my '88 Waggy (lots o' pics)

First off, let me state what my JGW does. This is my SUV, I use it as if it were a brand new Grand Cherokee or Explorer. I haul, drive, tow, travel, whatever in this car. It is not an offroad exclusive rig, so most of the work I do is to make it a more reliable, comfortable, but still fully capable vehicle.

When I got the Jeep it had a wasting away exhaust system, which I patched and bandaided along since I needed this vehicle to be a parts hauler for other projects that were taking priority. The rot and rust has come to a head and needed to be addressed last week.

I purchased the following (part numbers in brackets):
Walker Stock replacement Y-pipe (40407)
Walker Stock replacement Tailpipe (46537)
Walker 2.5 Catalytic converter (15038)
2.5 Borla ProXS muffler (40659)
Dynomax SS Exhaust tip (36473)
2.5" Lap clamp (SUM-692250)
Straight 2.5" Pipe (on hand)



Since I had to take the Y Pipe off, I had a few things to address. The first, and easiest being the heat riser. I removed the riser, removed the butterfly and rod, drilled and threaded the remaining holes and put in bolts coated with copper RTV. Done.



The second portion is where I decide to go off on what seemed like a rational tangent for me. The Y-pipe is off and brand new - no better time to put in an O2 bung, which means I should just bite the bullet and go EFI.

I got the exhaust on and squared away, sounds great and will be even better once we get past the brand new point. I welded pipe onto the cat, both sides, slip fit into the Y and clamped on muffler to cat, and muffler to tailpipe. Finally, the exhaust tip is clamped on giving me a very modular system for future changes.

While I was under there, I noticed my shift bushings could all be replaced so I paused to take care of that with Dorman Help! bushing kits (14041)
So am I really going to put all the time and effort into fuel injecting? I have a newer carb and most of the time it works well, although my wife doesn't like to drive it. Eh, yeah lets inject it.

I purchased the following (part numbers in brackets):
Performance Fuel Injection Systems TBI Kit (AMC360)
Meyle Fuel Filter (3141332109)
5/16 Fuel hose
3/8 Fuel hose
Coil bracket (to hold pump)
Random fittings and clamps

(DISCLAIMER)
Before anybody takes my commentary the wrong way, I would like to state that the PFISYS kit is the most affordable 'bolt-on' kit you can buy from my limited research. The kit as received is done very well and meets or exceeds ALL expectations at this price point. All of the changes that I have made to it are for my own personal needs or wants and does not reflect the quality of the kit (for the most part, ill get to that later). I just like things being done a certain way so you may see me undoing some of the work and changing it, especially on the harness, before using it. Again, none of this reflects the kit, I would buy it again.

I would also like to add that the way I do things, is not necessarily the way anyone else should it or even the right way whatsoever.
(/DISCLAIMER)



Component review:
Modified Distributor. As received, it did not move freely. Taking off the cap and rotor I can see ground off metal, a big chunk actually, binding the hall effect trigger and stuck to the magnet. I fished that out and cleaned up some other random "junk". This appears to be from where the flyweights were welded and ground. A chunk must have jostled and lodged during shipping.



There was also some junk in the ports of the reman'ed TBI. You can see some of it on the end of this threaded rod that I put into one of the ports. After seeing this I flushed teh whole unit and cleaned with bore brushes.



Grime and grease, not a metal issue.



Another minor annoyance, the adapter was machined with tapered seat fasteners, however cap screws were supplied. These cap screws do not have much purchase into the manifold so they were not used.





ECU. Nice work here, clean, seal is good, prom labeled and inserted properly. Does not come with any mounting hardware
Wiring Harness. Good solid connections, well laid out, everything labeled, terminations done properly, good solder joints where applicable. I didn't care for the electrical tape on the ends and some of the terminations. I had modified some of those.

I did have to make an extension for the O2 sensor, so I just made a plug in style extension so it's easily removed or modified.



Starting point



TBI installed





Fuel pump prep, the filter goes in top of the assembly. I used a coil bracket to hold the pump so I could add some additional isolation by the way of a cut apart silicone coupler. I did not like the way the bracket that came with it only covered half the pump and with very little isolation.



Fuel lines



Making some connections



Finished install



MIL



And what the day long affair did to my shop. It took about 12 hours start to finish with the obvious store runs and a couple meal brakes for good measure.



Since this has been covered many times I just did the highlights. If anyone wants any specific detail, let me know. I have a great deal of pictures!
Runs fantastic, had some minor tweaking to do with vac lines, timing, and misc adjustment but it fired right up after I got it primed. So now the only things left non-functional are dome lights and AC! Yay for me!

Big thanks to my buddy Ryan for the company and handling the laying on hard concrete so I don't have to type work
__________________
Ken S.
Jeep toy: 1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Megasquirt EFI
: Heated Seats : Blower fix : Driving light brackets : Shorty headers : Coil Packs : Electric Fans
Prior Jeeps: 1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ, 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Other toys: 1930 Model A (Hotrod), 1997 Ford Probe Turbo, 2000 Jaguar XJ8, 2005 VW Touareg

Last edited by Probesport : 07-28-2016 at 01:21 PM.
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  #2  
Old 07-28-2016, 01:01 PM
FrozenCajunAK FrozenCajunAK is offline
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Location: Anchorage, AK
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Thanks for this post. I always like seeing how others do an EFI install. I hope mine follows yours very soon.
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  #3  
Old 07-28-2016, 01:13 PM
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Probesport Probesport is offline
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Join Date: Apr 15, 2015
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 155
Additional info:

Vacuum
Brake booster to front manifold vac source
PCV to front of TBI
Charcoal canister to front of TBI (port A)
MAP to rear port of TBI
No distributor vacuum
Carb Bowl on Charcoal capped
Port T on TBI capped
Vacuum reservoir (ball) to port on manifold

Fuel
Runs from rear of TBI to front of engine, down to where stock pump was then over to hardlines on the frame rail.

Sensors
O2 sensor in right bank, below riser, 1.5" from flange
Coolant Temp in the rear coolant fitting T, where vacuum switch was.

ECU & interior electrical
Mounted under dash
Power (12v sw/run) and (12c const) to column harness
ALDL mounted under dash
fuel pump wire runs from under dash alongside parking cable and out to teh pump. Wire is fed through a hose for abrasion resistance.
MIL mounted in housing below steering column.
relays mounted under dash
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Ken S.
Jeep toy: 1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Megasquirt EFI
: Heated Seats : Blower fix : Driving light brackets : Shorty headers : Coil Packs : Electric Fans
Prior Jeeps: 1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ, 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Other toys: 1930 Model A (Hotrod), 1997 Ford Probe Turbo, 2000 Jaguar XJ8, 2005 VW Touareg
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  #4  
Old 07-28-2016, 01:23 PM
FrozenCajunAK FrozenCajunAK is offline
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Join Date: Jul 14, 2016
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 51
Did they custom burn a chip for you? There are ways to mod that ECM so that you can tune and burn for yourself. Google up AutoProm and Moates.net. That's how I did the TBI 360 in my old CJ7 several years ago.
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  #5  
Old 07-28-2016, 01:26 PM
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Probesport Probesport is offline
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Join Date: Apr 15, 2015
Location: Metro Detroit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenCajunAK
Did they custom burn a chip for you? There are ways to mod that ECM so that you can tune and burn for yourself. Google up AutoProm and Moates.net. That's how I did the TBI 360 in my old CJ7 several years ago.

Yes it is a custom prom. I went back and forth bwteen using a GM ECU / Prom versus Megasquirt as I am more familiar with Megasquirt. However for my needs for this vehicle I don't see myself needing that sort of control.

Since it's a socketed board, burning a prom shouldnt be that difficult. Thanks for the input!
__________________
Ken S.
Jeep toy: 1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Megasquirt EFI
: Heated Seats : Blower fix : Driving light brackets : Shorty headers : Coil Packs : Electric Fans
Prior Jeeps: 1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ, 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Other toys: 1930 Model A (Hotrod), 1997 Ford Probe Turbo, 2000 Jaguar XJ8, 2005 VW Touareg
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  #6  
Old 07-28-2016, 01:31 PM
FrozenCajunAK FrozenCajunAK is offline
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Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 51
Yep. If it has the ZIF socket, a burn/emulation should be really easy to do. I tuned mine with a laptop running down the roads in Corpus Christi, TX. Weirdest thing some people had ever seen.
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  #7  
Old 07-28-2016, 01:34 PM
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Probesport Probesport is offline
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Location: Metro Detroit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrozenCajunAK
Yep. If it has the ZIF socket, a burn/emulation should be really easy to do. I tuned mine with a laptop running down the roads in Corpus Christi, TX. Weirdest thing some people had ever seen.

Yeah been there, my favorite is running down the road with a friend in the passenger seat adding boost cut or a rev limiter in the middle of a run. Good times.
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Ken S.
Jeep toy: 1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Megasquirt EFI
: Heated Seats : Blower fix : Driving light brackets : Shorty headers : Coil Packs : Electric Fans
Prior Jeeps: 1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ, 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Other toys: 1930 Model A (Hotrod), 1997 Ford Probe Turbo, 2000 Jaguar XJ8, 2005 VW Touareg
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  #8  
Old 07-28-2016, 02:35 PM
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babywag babywag is offline
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Location: Land of froot loops and cukcoo-nuts, CA
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Cheapest easiest is to modify a 27SF512 chip and the ECM socket, so you can plug in the flash chip directly. Super easy.
Get a Burn2 from moates.net, datalog, modify, burn your tune.

If you want to step up to realtime grab an ostrich. Very nice little unit.

moates.net sells good stuff.
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'88 GW (aka Babywag) and '90 GW (aka JUNKbucket) both fuel injected
1994 Caprice wagon
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  #9  
Old 07-29-2016, 03:24 PM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
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Location: Oregon Coast
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How much was it and from where?
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87 GW- Fitech EFI,Fitech FCC,Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift,BFG AT KO2 30",Dynamax muffler,MSD distributor,MSD 6al box,Blaster2 coil,ACCEL 8mm,.045 gap,Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake,Elgin perf cam,HD alum radiator,Powermaster 150alt,Alum HD H2O pump,Serhills tailgate harness,Cowl screen mod,Evil Twin grab handles,Rstep's custom AMC lock knobs
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  #10  
Old 07-29-2016, 06:29 PM
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babywag babywag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShagWagon
How much was it and from where?

1st post...
http://pfisys.com/store-3/#!/AMC-Par...=0&sort=normal
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'88 GW (aka Babywag) and '90 GW (aka JUNKbucket) both fuel injected
1994 Caprice wagon
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  #11  
Old 09-21-2016, 06:30 AM
steveinil steveinil is offline
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Just wandering how it's doing pretty sure I'm going this route...
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Old 09-21-2016, 07:45 AM
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Probesport Probesport is offline
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Join Date: Apr 15, 2015
Location: Metro Detroit
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I have been meaning to update, but I'm working on a few other cars at the moment so just too short on time. My apologies.

At this point, everything is working and works well. Cold start enrichment could use some tuning but that's really about it. I have had a handful of issues that were directly related to the kit and conversation with the owner has been good and he has continued to be very helpful - however I must add he is still green to some of the nuances in electrical design. We have had some great conversation that should make this kit more viable, however at this price I still say it's hard to beat. As we were uncovering issues he had stated that he would send me any replacement parts that I thought may be needed and would work through resolution. This was very much appreciated.

Backing up a bit...

A few days after 'completion' it was terrible. Constant popping, misfires, general terribleness. I disassembled everything, traced back all of my wiring and started fresh.

I removed the TBI unit and disassembled it. Everything looked in good order, the smaller passages were slightly dirty but not bad for a reman unit. The injectors were installed backwards which had them not seating properly. Easily remedied, no issue there. TBI unit fine.

Next up were all of the sensors: MAP, CTS, IAC. They all tested out fine, no issues there. I will note they were all decent sensors, not OE (Delphi/Delco) but not the bottom of the barrel. Lets say parts store quality.

The ECM seems to be tuned well, could be better. I will probably tune it a bit more on my own however the shop owner was very quick to offer a free tuning session if I brought it out and I'm really not that far from the shop - another reason that I chose this kit.

If you've been following along, we have one more component. The distributor. The train of thought was that the ignition module is upset with something. I used a thermal camera to see how hot things are getting in there, and how the heat is being transferred - spoiler alert, it wasn't. After removing the module for testing, I noticed the puddle of goo underneath. It appeared that dielectric grease was used under the module in lieu of a thermal compound. The module couldn't get rid of the heat it creates and subsequently fried itself. I replaced the module, coated the contact point in thermal paste and we have been all set since.

Looking back, if I would have reviewed everything prior to installation I may have avoided all of the headache but in the end I am satisfied and believe that the next person in line will end up with a better kit due to the conversations I have had with the EFI shop owner.

So now that I have a functioning, well running, EFI Wagoneer I couldn't be happier. All performance has improved. Freeway, idle, starting, all of it. It's time to keep going.

Since this is all working as it should, I took the time to install a keyless entry and remote start system. Also a new, bigger alternator, some new circuits, all sorts of magical fare. I'll post some updated pics shortly.

__________________
Ken S.
Jeep toy: 1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Megasquirt EFI
: Heated Seats : Blower fix : Driving light brackets : Shorty headers : Coil Packs : Electric Fans
Prior Jeeps: 1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ, 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Other toys: 1930 Model A (Hotrod), 1997 Ford Probe Turbo, 2000 Jaguar XJ8, 2005 VW Touareg
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Old 09-21-2016, 07:54 AM
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Probesport Probesport is offline
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Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 155
New alternator, premier gear, super nice quality.





And the completed and mostly cleaned up engine bay.





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Ken S.
Jeep toy: 1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Megasquirt EFI
: Heated Seats : Blower fix : Driving light brackets : Shorty headers : Coil Packs : Electric Fans
Prior Jeeps: 1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ, 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Other toys: 1930 Model A (Hotrod), 1997 Ford Probe Turbo, 2000 Jaguar XJ8, 2005 VW Touareg
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Old 09-21-2016, 08:19 AM
steveinil steveinil is offline
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Cool thanks sir.. what keyless entry did you use that would be nice I plan on ordering the kit here soon want to get it on before winter my wagoneer runs ok at best seems really doggy imo but it's the only one I've ever driven but my 4.0 xj could outrun it hands down lol I'm just looking for better drivability(for the wife when she drives it) better starting and a little more power would be nice
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Old 09-21-2016, 08:29 AM
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Probesport Probesport is offline
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Considerably better driveability. Getting to 70 took some time on the freeway before, now I have to watch myself because it has no issue getting well past that. My wife had been concerned from time to time borrowing it in the winter because of all the carb nuances that I take for granted. After it stalled a couple times she just no longer felt comfortable. Now she takes it out without question.

I have lent the waggy out from time to time to a neighbor, the first time he drove it fuel injected he compared it to his 5 year old minivan. Night and day. It's not too far from my old ZJ with a 318 comparatively. I need more transmission next, at least a 4 speed.

I used a cheap Avital (4103LX $40, made by DEI) keyless and remote start. It will do trunk release as well so I need to build a relay circuit for the rear window roll down next. Having remote start and keyless entry is fantastic, especially with working AC when its 90+ degrees out. I am sure I will welcome it in the winter as well.
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Ken S.
Jeep toy: 1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Megasquirt EFI
: Heated Seats : Blower fix : Driving light brackets : Shorty headers : Coil Packs : Electric Fans
Prior Jeeps: 1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ, 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Other toys: 1930 Model A (Hotrod), 1997 Ford Probe Turbo, 2000 Jaguar XJ8, 2005 VW Touareg

Last edited by Probesport : 09-21-2016 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 09-21-2016, 09:52 AM
steveinil steveinil is offline
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Very cool thanks for the info looks like it's what I'm after very nice and clean engine bay BTW
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  #17  
Old 09-22-2016, 06:31 AM
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Probesport Probesport is offline
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Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 155
No problem, thanks for the compliment.
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Ken S.
Jeep toy: 1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Megasquirt EFI
: Heated Seats : Blower fix : Driving light brackets : Shorty headers : Coil Packs : Electric Fans
Prior Jeeps: 1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ, 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Other toys: 1930 Model A (Hotrod), 1997 Ford Probe Turbo, 2000 Jaguar XJ8, 2005 VW Touareg
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Old 09-22-2016, 01:02 PM
darylb darylb is offline
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If you put your O2 sensor below the heat riser couldn't that be the issue for your cold start issues? If the riser is closed, cold start, the O2 sensor is getting very little bypass to measure.
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Old 09-22-2016, 01:35 PM
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babywag babywag is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darylb
If you put your O2 sensor below the heat riser couldn't that be the issue for your cold start issues? If the riser is closed, cold start, the O2 sensor is getting very little bypass to measure.

O2 sensor isn't in play on cold start, only after the timeout/temp settings are reached and the system goes closed loop.

Shouldn't really be an issue if fuel map is good.
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'88 GW (aka Babywag) and '90 GW (aka JUNKbucket) both fuel injected
1994 Caprice wagon
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Old 09-22-2016, 03:03 PM
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Probesport Probesport is offline
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Location: Metro Detroit
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Also, if you scroll up youll notice my heat riser delete
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Ken S.
Jeep toy: 1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Megasquirt EFI
: Heated Seats : Blower fix : Driving light brackets : Shorty headers : Coil Packs : Electric Fans
Prior Jeeps: 1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ, 1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited
Other toys: 1930 Model A (Hotrod), 1997 Ford Probe Turbo, 2000 Jaguar XJ8, 2005 VW Touareg
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