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Old 05-10-2016, 01:54 PM
BA_051 BA_051 is offline
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Join Date: May 06, 2008
Location: Everett, Washington
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2009 GEP 6.5 swap

Well after my 406 stroker build my J10 is going a different route... Dropping in a military take out in place of my 406... I don't want this to become a debate on which diesel is best, but this is by far the cheapest and easiest swap. I looked at a cummins swap and total cost was well over $6000 for either the 4bt or 6bt. They aren't cheap anymore...

Since I already had a bellhousing from a SBC to my '95 NV4500, the total cost to "bolt the motor in" was a mere $110 for motor mounts... Granted that's to just bolt it in, not drivable... Here is a list of parts I needed to buy to convert the 24v system to 12v and also make it drivable. And it will be staying NA for a while.

2009 complete GEP 6.5 diesel with 3100 miles, without alt or starter...$2000
CS144 alternator..............$109
12v starter......................$128
LUK solid flywheel............$110
ACDelco clutch kit............$75 p/n:381409
Fuel manager..................$113 (with filter and sensors)
Advance adapter mounts..$110

DB2 IP 12v solenoid........$58
ACDelco 60G gp's x8.......$68

That puts me at $2771.00
I also have to change my 8k gas tach to a 4K diesel tach to use 0.5v signal from a CPS... So another $150 for tach...

Will use my ford starter relay for the glow plug relay with a manual toggle and make my own glow plug harness...
I will get pics going as soon as fastenal has the motor ready for pickup the end of his week or early next week...

EDIT:
Well it has been almost 2 years since I swapped in the NA 6.5. Long story short, I picked up the F code upper and lower intake manifold, the oil feed and return lines, both exhaust manifolds and a new crossover pipe for $300 in August 2016 along with an HX35 (a lot of people recommended it on various forums) and did a 4" strait exhaust from the turbo all the way back. I adjusted the fuel screw so it barely touches 17-18 psi boost at 2400 rpm at WOT and it rarely smokes (only if RPM's are lower than 1250-1300 and I'm laying on the gas). It really, really woke it up.

In September, My family and I moved from NM to WA and I weighed in at 14,000 lbs and it performed admirably despite it had the military NA coolant crossover and no fan shroud and it still maintained 13-14 mpg's. It now has a fiberglass fan shroud (that I made) and the bypass blocking Tstat crossover from the 1992-1995 6.5TD's.

This summer, I am planning the next 'upgrade' which will eliminate that factory super restrictive passenger side manifold and either do 1 of 2 things. I will either try and fit the van/centermount turbo log manifolds and move my turbo to be similar to a center mount but not be an actual centermount, Or 2, use the shops waterjet and create my own exhaust flanges and use 1.625" tube and run them (all 8) behind the motor into a single 4x2 row collector to either a T3 or T4 flange... Option 2 is a lot more fab but if i cant get the factory manifolds to fit, then i will have to it that way. In either case, the restrictive exhaust manifolds will be gone and it will breathe easier... Which leads to my second 'upgrade'... Ditching the HX35 for an HE351.... Based on the boost profiles, its quite a bit more efficient and its a single scroll vs twin scroll. My HX35 is 54/58/12 and the HE351 is 60/60/9 so the the compressor and turbines are larger, but the turbine housing is smaller... I will keep you updated as I progress through this project...

I am even considering creating a 7L stroker, but the $9-10k is way out of budget right now... If your curious, I would use a P400 block/girdle/oil pan ($3000), International 6.9 0.060" over pistons (drop in, $800), rebushed rods ($150 shop quote), and a custom billet crank from Scat with a 4.15" stroke ($5000 at least quote from Scat). It would also drop the compression down to 18.6:1 making it perfect for 30lbs of boost.... That would be a really mean motor.....
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1974 Jeep J20, gladiator grill, 12v p7100 cummins, Modified He351, 4" strait piped, NV4500/Ford NP205, 14b front kingpins, 14b rear, 4.56's, 12" lift, 37x12.50x16.5's

Last edited by BA_051 : 02-26-2018 at 12:16 AM.
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  #2  
Old 05-11-2016, 10:29 AM
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DieselSJ DieselSJ is offline
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Where did you find a complete GEP for that price? I'll order one today and forget building my block.

Does that include manifolds and turbo?
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-87 Grand, 6.5L diesel, MHI TE06H turbo, Water/air intercooler, Art Carr 700R4, CS-130, hydroboost. 21/24mpg, dead 229 [Custom 242 on the way]
-99 XJ Limited.
-Jeepspeed 1717 -Built 4.0, FAST EFI, Rubicon Express, Bilstein, Rigid Industries, 4 Wheel Parts, G2 Axle, Currie Enterprises
-Member, FSJ Prissy Restoration Association

Last edited by DieselSJ : 05-11-2016 at 10:30 AM.
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  #3  
Old 05-11-2016, 02:47 PM
BA_051 BA_051 is offline
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Join Date: May 06, 2008
Location: Everett, Washington
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Its an NA motor, but it is complete. Its coming from South Carolina. Its everything from fan to flexplate. I had them take off the alternator and starter since I dont need them.
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1974 Jeep J20, gladiator grill, 12v p7100 cummins, Modified He351, 4" strait piped, NV4500/Ford NP205, 14b front kingpins, 14b rear, 4.56's, 12" lift, 37x12.50x16.5's

Last edited by BA_051 : 05-11-2016 at 02:49 PM.
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Old 05-12-2016, 12:45 PM
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benjclark benjclark is offline
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Sorry, what's NA?
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1973 Wagoneer (Custom), 401 - 4bbl Holley TA on Edelbrock intake, otherwise stock.
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  #5  
Old 05-12-2016, 01:01 PM
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DieselSJ DieselSJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benjclark
Sorry, what's NA?

Naturally aspirated, i.e. non-turbo. Not that it matters because they are identical engines in every other way.

BA - can you pm me the contact info?
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-87 Grand, 6.5L diesel, MHI TE06H turbo, Water/air intercooler, Art Carr 700R4, CS-130, hydroboost. 21/24mpg, dead 229 [Custom 242 on the way]
-99 XJ Limited.
-Jeepspeed 1717 -Built 4.0, FAST EFI, Rubicon Express, Bilstein, Rigid Industries, 4 Wheel Parts, G2 Axle, Currie Enterprises
-Member, FSJ Prissy Restoration Association
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  #6  
Old 06-02-2016, 06:35 PM
BA_051 BA_051 is offline
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Ok well its been a while since I posted. I picked up the motor on May 23rd from Fastenal and was surprised to receive the engine harness as well...

So on the 25th of May, I pulled my 406 and set it aside...
I bolted on the solid LUK flywheel, AC Delco clutch kit, and starter, all new and referenced from a 1998 6.5 diesel equipped suburban.



Cant seem to get a pic of the ACDelco clutch to show up. I get a the address posted instead of the image. The part number is posted above in post 1 anyway...





And the complete engine harness and glow plug harness! Military harnesses are wrapped in mesh and every wire is individual with little metal tags on each end of each wire.



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1974 Jeep J20, gladiator grill, 12v p7100 cummins, Modified He351, 4" strait piped, NV4500/Ford NP205, 14b front kingpins, 14b rear, 4.56's, 12" lift, 37x12.50x16.5's

Last edited by BA_051 : 10-03-2017 at 11:45 AM.
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  #7  
Old 06-02-2016, 06:46 PM
BA_051 BA_051 is offline
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Here is it being hoisted into position and mated to the nv4500.







The advance adapter motor mounts welded to frame and 6.5 sitting on the mounts. I did have issues clearing the NA manifolds and had to use the cast iron spacers that the original HMMWV mounts were bolted to. but it worked out perfectly!









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1974 Jeep J20, gladiator grill, 12v p7100 cummins, Modified He351, 4" strait piped, NV4500/Ford NP205, 14b front kingpins, 14b rear, 4.56's, 12" lift, 37x12.50x16.5's

Last edited by BA_051 : 10-03-2017 at 11:51 AM. Reason: changing pic addresses
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Old 06-02-2016, 07:15 PM
BA_051 BA_051 is offline
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Join Date: May 06, 2008
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The nv4500 and np205 didnt move either. I left them in the same location as they were with the AMC 406 stroker.

All parts I bought from the parts stores or online are from a 1998 K2500 pickup with a 6.5TD unless specified otherwise.

I got a passenger side bracket from a 1998 6.5 diesel and the CS144 bolted right up. I am now waiting for the drivers side bracket from a 1995 6.5 for the power steering and alternator, SO I can run 2 alternators. a CS144 for main power and the second one with a clutch for onboard welding.

I also had some issues with pulleys and brackets. All of the military pulleys are 8 groove serp pulleys and are spaced 7/8"-1" further out than the civilian motors.

I removed the crank pulley and took out the spacer, then bolted it back on with 1" shorter bolts. I swapped the alternator pulley out with an 8 groove pulley. I swapped the stock tensioner pulley out with the one from the military tensioner (had to use the civilian tensioner because the military bracket is for the AC compressor and vacuum pump)

I will also be using a severe duty fan clutch (4 bolt style, not thread on) and a 6.6 duramax fan.

Wiring was super, super simple!
Coil wire went to: Injection pump Solenoid+pink wire on fuel filter heater+pink wire on water in fuel sensor.
Tach Wire: went to white on crank position sensor
Coolant Temp sensor:Well, went to Coolant sensor again...
Oil Pressure sender was moved to the back where typical SBC senders are...

Glow Plug harness is in place, but not hooked up yet. I will either spend the $75 to get the 1992-1993 controller, or just use a ford style starter solenoid. I havent decided yet.

Clutch was strange, I had to use a "tall style" throwout bearing with the 1998 pressure plate because in 1998, the slave was internal whereas I am using an external slave. The slave cylinder is cast iron, with a bleeder screw and m12x1.0 bubble fitting. Autozone p/n: 12457 and $20 from 1988 K2500 with 6.2 Diesel.

I havent tried starting it yet, but I will shortly. I will update as I get more parts in as well.
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1974 Jeep J20, gladiator grill, 12v p7100 cummins, Modified He351, 4" strait piped, NV4500/Ford NP205, 14b front kingpins, 14b rear, 4.56's, 12" lift, 37x12.50x16.5's
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  #9  
Old 06-03-2016, 01:13 PM
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DieselSJ DieselSJ is offline
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Location: QC, AZ
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Any plans on how you are going to work your steering shaft?
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-87 Grand, 6.5L diesel, MHI TE06H turbo, Water/air intercooler, Art Carr 700R4, CS-130, hydroboost. 21/24mpg, dead 229 [Custom 242 on the way]
-99 XJ Limited.
-Jeepspeed 1717 -Built 4.0, FAST EFI, Rubicon Express, Bilstein, Rigid Industries, 4 Wheel Parts, G2 Axle, Currie Enterprises
-Member, FSJ Prissy Restoration Association
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  #10  
Old 06-05-2016, 09:03 PM
BA_051 BA_051 is offline
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Oh, its already in... No clearance issues what so ever! I will have to get a pic tomorrow. I did have to remove it to get everything situated at first, but then I just, bolted it back in...
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1974 Jeep J20, gladiator grill, 12v p7100 cummins, Modified He351, 4" strait piped, NV4500/Ford NP205, 14b front kingpins, 14b rear, 4.56's, 12" lift, 37x12.50x16.5's
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  #11  
Old 06-06-2016, 12:29 PM
BA_051 BA_051 is offline
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Here is is...
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1974 Jeep J20, gladiator grill, 12v p7100 cummins, Modified He351, 4" strait piped, NV4500/Ford NP205, 14b front kingpins, 14b rear, 4.56's, 12" lift, 37x12.50x16.5's

Last edited by BA_051 : 10-03-2017 at 12:02 PM.
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  #12  
Old 06-06-2016, 04:07 PM
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DieselSJ DieselSJ is offline
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Ahhh...those cast iron spacers gave you extra clearance. My mounts are up higher because mine didn't have the spacers so I had some issues. Looks great so far!
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-87 Grand, 6.5L diesel, MHI TE06H turbo, Water/air intercooler, Art Carr 700R4, CS-130, hydroboost. 21/24mpg, dead 229 [Custom 242 on the way]
-99 XJ Limited.
-Jeepspeed 1717 -Built 4.0, FAST EFI, Rubicon Express, Bilstein, Rigid Industries, 4 Wheel Parts, G2 Axle, Currie Enterprises
-Member, FSJ Prissy Restoration Association
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Old 06-10-2016, 07:29 AM
BA_051 BA_051 is offline
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Indeed they made it a lot easier.... Reinstalled the core support and fitted the 6.6 fan and clutch... Test fit the radistor and sure enough, I have 1-1.25" between the clutch and radiator... Only had 1/2" with the 406... Here's a front shot of it...



So I figured, let's try and fire this thing up... After cranking on it and running the battery down 4 times, and even jumping it from our 06 commander, no fire... Shot some wd40 down the intake and it fires up for a second or 2... Bled the filter assembly, pulled the return hose off the top and get fuel with no bubbles out of it... But the injector lines are dry... I cracked the injector lines and cranked on it more, but can't seem to get fuel to the injectors... I'll try it again this morning and see if I can get fuel to the injectors... If not, out comes the pump for a rebuild...

It's in the high 90's out here and the sun literally cooks you in an hour or 2.... Sucks doing this all outside
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1974 Jeep J20, gladiator grill, 12v p7100 cummins, Modified He351, 4" strait piped, NV4500/Ford NP205, 14b front kingpins, 14b rear, 4.56's, 12" lift, 37x12.50x16.5's

Last edited by BA_051 : 10-03-2017 at 12:03 PM.
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  #14  
Old 06-10-2016, 03:57 PM
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DieselSJ DieselSJ is offline
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Crack open all of the lines - they won't bleed if you are trying to force air through the injector. A trick is to pull all the glow plugs so the engine spins faster and you don't kill the battery as fast.
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-87 Grand, 6.5L diesel, MHI TE06H turbo, Water/air intercooler, Art Carr 700R4, CS-130, hydroboost. 21/24mpg, dead 229 [Custom 242 on the way]
-99 XJ Limited.
-Jeepspeed 1717 -Built 4.0, FAST EFI, Rubicon Express, Bilstein, Rigid Industries, 4 Wheel Parts, G2 Axle, Currie Enterprises
-Member, FSJ Prissy Restoration Association
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Old 06-10-2016, 10:02 PM
BA_051 BA_051 is offline
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I will pull the glow plugs next chance i get and try it that way. I cracked all 8 when I was trying to bleed the lines and was at it for over an hour with my commander running at 2000 rpm with cables running to mine... Used nearly 1/8 tank of gas in the commander in the process...

I turned the ignition on tonight with the top of the injection pump removed and it slowly filled up without cranking... Filled a little faster when it was cranking... This is really ticking me off... Im about ready to pull the pump and tear it apart... Local shop wants $800-1100 to rebuild it... can get reman online for $500...
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1974 Jeep J20, gladiator grill, 12v p7100 cummins, Modified He351, 4" strait piped, NV4500/Ford NP205, 14b front kingpins, 14b rear, 4.56's, 12" lift, 37x12.50x16.5's

Last edited by BA_051 : 10-03-2017 at 12:03 PM.
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Old 06-11-2016, 06:21 PM
BA_051 BA_051 is offline
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So I pulled the GP's and it cranks fast... Cracked the injector lines too... But after almost an hour, still not a drop to the injectors... I don't know what else to do with this stupid thing... It was running when it was pulled....
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1974 Jeep J20, gladiator grill, 12v p7100 cummins, Modified He351, 4" strait piped, NV4500/Ford NP205, 14b front kingpins, 14b rear, 4.56's, 12" lift, 37x12.50x16.5's

Last edited by BA_051 : 10-03-2017 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 06-11-2016, 07:23 PM
BA_051 BA_051 is offline
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Is ALIVE!!! Used some wd40 to keep it running and after 5 mins I got squirts out of the injectors.... Tightened it up and now it runs on its own!!
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1974 Jeep J20, gladiator grill, 12v p7100 cummins, Modified He351, 4" strait piped, NV4500/Ford NP205, 14b front kingpins, 14b rear, 4.56's, 12" lift, 37x12.50x16.5's
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  #18  
Old 06-13-2016, 06:23 PM
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DieselSJ DieselSJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BA_051
Local shop wants $800-1100 to rebuild it... can get reman online for $500...


Glad you got it going!

Careful on rebuilds - it is the pump heads that take a crap and a $500 rebuild isn't going to replace the head.

And thank you for using the "correct" starting fluid for a diesel.
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-87 Grand, 6.5L diesel, MHI TE06H turbo, Water/air intercooler, Art Carr 700R4, CS-130, hydroboost. 21/24mpg, dead 229 [Custom 242 on the way]
-99 XJ Limited.
-Jeepspeed 1717 -Built 4.0, FAST EFI, Rubicon Express, Bilstein, Rigid Industries, 4 Wheel Parts, G2 Axle, Currie Enterprises
-Member, FSJ Prissy Restoration Association
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Old 06-16-2016, 01:15 AM
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Mikel Mikel is offline
 
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Congratulations! I can't wait to see the finished product.
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Old 06-16-2016, 09:28 PM
BA_051 BA_051 is offline
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WD40 is awesome... I love using that stuff and keep a spray bottle of it in the truck all the time...

I hit a snag when trying to fit my radiator in... I figured I would try and route the inlet and outlet to the opposite sides so I could use my stock aluminum (ebay special 5 years ago) but it just doesnt have the room between the fan and steering gearbox...

So I bought a Griffin universal aluminum crossflow radiator with GM inlet and outlet... 1.5" inlet, 1.75" outlet, 27.5" wide and 19" tall, $156 to my door. Should be getting it delivered on tuesday, and wednesdays and thursdays are my days off!

All I have left is mount the radiator, put the face back on, and go over everything to make sure its tight and ready to go... Oh and an air cleaner... It has the 2 bolts on top with the "no step" duct so I can run a cone type air cleaner or if there is a 14 or 16" round air cleaner that will bolt up, I could use that...
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1974 Jeep J20, gladiator grill, 12v p7100 cummins, Modified He351, 4" strait piped, NV4500/Ford NP205, 14b front kingpins, 14b rear, 4.56's, 12" lift, 37x12.50x16.5's
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