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  #1  
Old 06-24-2014, 01:49 AM
bmax65
 
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Anyone on IFSJA into Perkins T6.354?

Hi All

Just wondering if any of you guys have been into Perkins, specifically the 6.354, both NA and turbo.

Searched-

'perkins'
'perkins diesel'
'perkins 6 cylinder'
'6.354'
'T6.354'

Before anyone mentions it, please don't mention Cummins or GM 6.2/6.5, Power Stroke, Isuzu...just want to focus on this engine. Thanks.

Only mention I found on IFSJA was for a little 4 cyl collaborative engine, some kind ofCAT/Perkins 4 popper- someone posted a pic of this in a non-FSJ on this site.

If there is/has been some buried thread about these- any suggestions for better search terms?

Even if you've not put one into an FSJ....maybe someone here's dealt with them...especially in the PNW region? And if so, could you please state whom you might use as a reliable source of parts and tech? There is online mention of this engine being used in tractors, and of folks adapting it for road use with a change of crank damper.

From what I've read so far online, they're a reliable unit, lots of folks like them, you can still service them ok, some guys even tweak them for a bit more oomph, there are vids of these in Fords, Dodges, Internationals....it seems everything but an FSJ. They were even offered as an option in 60's-70's fullsize trucks, and have read about both stick shift and automatic ones. However, not too much details about the bellhousing(s) needed, or what adapter rings for an auto.

Just trying to gather good, reliable info about this. The thought of one of the T6's in the Wag has sorta got me grinning.

Thanks much for your guys' time, any and all comments, experiences, and techie stuff most welcomed.
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  #2  
Old 06-24-2014, 07:23 AM
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Mr. Goatman Mr. Goatman is offline
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I by no means am an expert on the content available on IFSJA but try to keep up on the diesel content. I cannot remember this ever being discussed. Most of the the guys here convert to what is good/ available and secondarily..... cheap. I have never personally seen this engine for sale. That is why you see so much info on 6.2, 4BT, 4BD, 6BT swaps. I am excited that you are interested in a new swap and look forward to the pictures and write up.
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  #3  
Old 06-24-2014, 09:03 AM
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Carnuck Carnuck is offline
 
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I told you about the '68 Dodge LCF 3 ton with Perkins (N/A) and Clark 5 speed (O/D) here in Monroe for $1800. It had no deck (was a box truck) and I test drove it after adjusting all the brakes. 17 mpg with O/D is average, in a Jtruck or 3 ton.
They were used in Massey Ferguson tractors back in the day. (had one on the farm growing up) Motor weighs about as much as the rest of the truck!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Perkins_engines

The little 4 cyl diesel in Mazda pickups and early Rangers was Perkins/Mazda built.
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Last edited by Carnuck : 06-24-2014 at 09:06 AM.
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  #4  
Old 06-24-2014, 10:02 AM
joe joe is offline
 
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Only ones I've been around were pretty old 4 and 6cyl ones in commercial fish boats but that was mostly back in the 80's so have no idea of current parts availability. Used to be a pretty common motor back then in the 40-60 footers. The old 6cyl motors would move a plugged 50 footer along smartly even bucking a stiff current. Might try some maritime sites for info on Perkins. Cool old motors.
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  #5  
Old 06-24-2014, 06:42 PM
bmax65
 
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Hi Guys

Hi Guys-

Thanks for chiming in.

Goatman- haha, no guaranteed swap yet. Just trying to gather info for now, before anything could even be thought to happen. As for pics/write up, that'd be amazing in and of itself- no camera, no computer skills here. It would be nice to be able to archive such a thing.

And, yep, I do agree with you as to why the other engines are more popular- they get more press, more aftermarket support, and seem to be able to be purchased cheaply, if out of a wrecked truck.

Carnuck- nope, didn't know detail about the Dodge, other than a passing mention, or that it was for sale. There is a big old 60's Dodge flatbed with a crane on it, way up in the hills in Carnation, it just sits in a bowl-like
depression near some property. Would be cool just to look at it, but don't
even know who would own it.

I do like some of those old funky '60's trucks, though. And yeah, I know some of the diesels can be kinda heavy- the marinised ones are pretty porky- bet the water cooled exhausts and the intercooler weigh several hundred pounds.

Joe- yeah, from what I've been able to read, they have a great rep for reliability, and when tuned correctly, are pretty thrifty. After viewing a few on you tube a few years back, and seeing some factory installs online,
just thought it might, might be cool, to have a period diesel in an old Wag.

However, sometimes imagination doesn't match reality!

Thanks much for all comments, guys. It's appreciated.
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  #6  
Old 06-25-2014, 09:09 AM
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Carnuck Carnuck is offline
 
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The guy at the wood shop next door finally sold his Perkins powered '66 Travelall.
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  #7  
Old 06-25-2014, 09:23 PM
joe joe is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmax65
I know some of the diesels can be kinda heavy- the marinised ones are pretty porky- bet the water cooled exhausts and the intercooler weigh several hundred pounds.
If you find a good motor don't fret about heavy water cooled exhaust systems. That's not a normal marine workboat application. Most ran conventional stack exhausts and the motors were either raw water or heat exchanger cooled. Either case converting to a proper sized conventional radiator eng cooling system for road use isn't any more complicated or heavier than cooling any other dsl motor.
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  #8  
Old 06-26-2014, 04:27 AM
bmax65
 
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Joe- yeah, kinda figured as much

Hi Joe-

Was kinda thinking that, that perhaps buried under all that boat stuff is just the 'conventional' mill. I know some engines can be a specific application-
different heads, pistons, etc. I have learned the Perkins T6's in Massey Ferguson's don't have a conventional harmonic damper, but the road engines do (courtesy of the 4BT forum).

Believe me, I'm just still learning all this junk.....just poking around, trying to find good info. I'm not in a position to make a move on anything, being far away from home right now. So, figured I better do some research and learn stuff in the meantime, like variations in road going apps, fuel pumps, turbo sizes, etc. From what I've read on the Perkins website, the basic T6 got a bit modded over time.

If this ever was to happen, I know it will be quite a bit of work, both drivetrain and suspension- guessing stock Wag springs might not cut it.
Again, gotta get to searching and reading, before one dime is spent.

Heck, the metalwork/prep/paint is just getting ready to take off...hoping the initial evaluation of "99% cancer free" will hold true in regards to the body. Already have a few probs with the doors, and the bloody tailgate.
Gotta get the basic stuff fixed first.

If this can even happen, I want it to look like a period factory-type job, from way back-no mega-wheeler hack/cut, or modern day...what's the word...."bling".

Just slightly raised, maybe steelies, the winch/tow bar front, and a Barden style bumper in the rear.

Hmmm...a J4000 Wag? 'One ton Waggy'?

Anyhow, sorry for replying in a novel....just got lots of stuff running thru my head.
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  #9  
Old 06-26-2014, 06:58 AM
joe joe is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmax65
If this ever was to happen, I know it will be quite a bit of work, both drivetrain and suspension- guessing stock Wag springs might not cut it.
Again, gotta get to searching and reading, before one dime is spent.
Yeah, the motor is the cheap part and the expensive shop costs to get everything made and bolted up for road use is where most dsl swap plans get derailed. I don't know anything about how widely Perkins were used for road use. The ones I've seen in boats were mostly originally from old mining-construction-logging equip. Cranes, drag lines, stationary gen sets etc. For a FSJ swap prolly be far cheaper for install costs to stick with a more conventional dsl motor and buy a complete donor truck. Either way you'll have thousands invested in a dsl swap. Cool project but not for the light of wallet.
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  #10  
Old 06-26-2014, 08:21 AM
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Carnuck Carnuck is offline
 
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That was why I suggested a 4bdt1a Isuzu motor with 5 speed I found since a member on here sells motor mount adapter kits.
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  #11  
Old 06-26-2014, 07:53 PM
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NE715 had a really friggin cool rig. Shortened FSJ frame with Toyota FJ40(?) body, Perkins Diesel and can't remember the rest.
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  #12  
Old 06-26-2014, 08:08 PM
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Maybe someone can chime in concerning the Perkins Diesels that were available in the M715. Memphis sold the new in box factory conversion kits for years. I dont know the details, but they were available when I did my first M715 restoration in the early 90s
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  #13  
Old 06-28-2014, 11:55 AM
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I don't think this does you any good, but Jeep offered Perkins diesels in CJ5/6. I poked under the hood of a CJ6 near me that left the factory with the 4 cylinder. The owner said it was not much of a highway rig.

Like all diesels, I'd look up the RPM curve and calculate what tranny and gearing setup you'd need to get down the highway. Aim for max torque rpm.
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  #14  
Old 06-28-2014, 09:59 PM
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geofro84 geofro84 is offline
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The Perkins is a good old engine the 6-354 were fitted to trucks down here in Australia back in the 60s they weren't fast but they did the job and i did see 1 fitted to a f350 about 8 years ago everytime i sore it it would be towing a big trailer and both would loaded they drove it for years with the right gearing it should be a good setup
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  #15  
Old 06-29-2014, 12:32 AM
bmax65
 
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thanks for the comments guys, keep em coming

Hi All-

Thanks for all the comments, keep em coming.

The more (of what I can find to) read on these, they are a tough and reliable
unit. The few vids online are pretty cool, even in NA form, they have their own sound, turboed, even more so- you wouldn't mistake it for a Cummins.
And a bit quieter than the Screamin' Jimmies heheh.

Trench- yeah, I just recently learned about the 60's, Perkins CJ's. Kinda cool, probably no faster than the flattie/F-head/OHV 4 poppers, but it's not supposed to be a hotrod.


Bill- wow, didn't know M715's offered diesel. About the only 6 bangers I've read about from that time period are Hercules and Perkins....wonder if any other was offered- Detroit, maybe- like a 3 or 4-53? Would be very interesting to know about this.

Joe/Carnuck- oh yeah, loud and clear. IF anything was to happen, have to get all the bits together, first. Not having that can definitely kill any project's progress.

Still just looking, searching, etc. Gotta get other stuff cleaned up, lined up, and fixed, first. It's still in driving condition for now.

Thanks much again to everyone....wow,if someone can dig up pics of an FSJ with the T6.354/6.354, please do so, would love to see them!

Have a good weekend.
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  #16  
Old 06-29-2014, 01:49 AM
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http://bringatrailer.com/2011/04/09/...nal-travelall/
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  #17  
Old 10-20-2014, 09:17 AM
350 Vortec 350 Vortec is offline
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Hey,probably not much use to you now but I have 2 N/A 635.4's here,very common in Europe,they are very nice running motor,easy/cheap to service..as far as puttung one in a Jeep goes,I'd probably say it's a big heavy lump with fairly low hp and definately not easy on juice!!modern Perkins Phazers run rings round them,also have a 220phazer with approx same fuel/hr consumption with over 2x HP
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  #18  
Old 10-21-2014, 10:35 PM
bmax65
 
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Hi 350

Hi 350-

Ireland, eh? Interesting. Kinda cool to hear from far away folks, some of you have amazing rigs....Sportside Dan's recent post about the 'secret garden' of FSJ's was stunning.

Yeah, from what I've been able to read, the Phazers were the next leap forward.

But I'm kind of a stubborn 'vintage minded' guy, if I could do a diesel swap, I'm interested in some of the older lumps So far, info hasn't been easy to find, most folks all want the modern stuff. Any diesel magazines here focus on Cummins/Duramax/PowerStroke...I get it, they're new, and what sells.
Wish there was some vintage diesel mags with some real good tech folks, but it just doesn't seem to exist.

Kind of hard to tell who's spinning tales and who's telling the truth on these engines, as far as mpg goes. Have read about guys getting 20-25mpg in older Ford and Chevy pickups with the 6.354, which isn't bad for a big heavy brick of a truck....I know the Wag is a bit lighter than a F250/C20.

If a good unit could be found, would not be looking for mega-power, black smoke type stuff. Just a nice, clean rebuild with the turbo setup, tweak it for best combo of power/mpg, and just enjoy it. Have watched the few T6 and NA 354 vids online, and the Perkins just has a sound all it's own....does not sound like the modern diesels, which is cool. Also from your neck of the woods, saw some vids of the Commer 'knocker' engines, man, those are pretty wild. Those, and the Detroits, definitely make their own music...if Detroits weren't so doggone heavy (or if I had a one ton J truck or M715),
I'd love to try one.

They got an OT section on here, perhaps you might post some pics of your stuff? Always cool to see what others are building/working on.

Thanks for the comments, best of luck with your stuff, too.
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Old 10-22-2014, 05:47 PM
350 Vortec 350 Vortec is offline
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Just a quick thought,A deutz air cooled would be a pretty cool transplant motor also,lighter and they run very nice,durable as you'll get and economical to,I have on in a tractor,912
6cyl with turbo slapped on,it's black worn out but still pulls like a train and refuses to give up ,will get round to pics eventually but most of my stuff would be considered junk by most ppl
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:16 PM
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Carnuck Carnuck is offline
 
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Deutz don't do so well in transportation vehicles. The vibration, smoke and smell drive people away from them.
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