International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > Diesel Swaps

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #41  
Old 02-11-2011, 12:45 AM
jeepjseries's Avatar
jeepjseries jeepjseries is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: May 30, 2009
Location: Deming New Mexico
Posts: 1,362
I read the 7k part was just curious if you had a better estimate and you did thanks for telling. Missed the 727 from a donor truck part though, must have been side tracked by pictures and videos happens a lot. Great thread though by the way that wag is going to be one awesome rig.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 02-11-2011, 12:52 AM
olllllo's Avatar
olllllo olllllo is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Jul 29, 2003
Location: Providence Village, TX
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by jMedia
Just curious, why keep the 727? Not criticizing, just wondering.
Beautiful swap so far

A few reasons came into that discussion. First, while the 727/229 are not the components I would choose to put together for a dream rig built from scratch, they have proved themselves to be very reliable in my eyes for the way I use my wagoneer, both on and off road. Additionally, even though I am doing something that is a relatively dramatic modification, I like the idea that I am keeping it somewhat stock in most areas and keeping some of its original design. Also, by keeping the stock t-case and Dodge/AMC hybrid 727 where it is and building forward, I can eliminate some costs that, while not terribly expensive individually, could add up to significant cost. I won't have to rebuild driveshafts. I won't need to source some adapter from tranny to t-case. By using a Dodge bell housing, I am again removing the cost for expensive adapters to go from the 4BT.

While I feel like I am eliminating some cost, I also don't feel that I am shortcutting the project, but hopefully instead shooting for a happy medium. If cost was truly no factor at all, I might actually go with an NV4500 and some gear driven t-case, but I feel like this is a pretty reasonable plan, and if I end up unhappy with it, I can always try something else down the road.

Time will tell, I suppose!
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 02-11-2011, 11:14 AM
tndonor tndonor is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Apr 05, 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 396
The 727 is very similar to the 47rh, 47re used in the cummins. Very stout transmission, just no overdrive. I think its a fine choice for what it is. If it is built, you could just add an NP205 and be good if overdrive isnt a killer.

Nice build!
__________________
1980 J10 4BTA (p pumped) NV4500, d300, np205. Dana 60s Sold and parted out
1967 M715 Cummins 6B p7100
HX35/HT3B compound turbos. NV4500. 203/205 Doubler. 14B FF 4.56 Detroit/ HP60 4.56 OX
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 02-11-2011, 01:15 PM
Fiodh. Argus's Avatar
Fiodh. Argus Fiodh. Argus is offline
Master Mechanic
 
Join Date: Jan 01, 2005
Location: Pine Mountain Club, CA
Posts: 1,280
very nice, I hope it all works out well for you. I know I'd happily pay that amount to have a 4bt Cherokee, sounds like a fair deal to me. Your friend Aaron could have an ongoing business just from this site if he chose to specialize... his website looks excellent.

great project, keep us posted!
__________________
Drew
77 Cherokee WT

Last edited by Fiodh. Argus : 02-11-2011 at 01:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 02-11-2011, 11:11 PM
olllllo's Avatar
olllllo olllllo is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Jul 29, 2003
Location: Providence Village, TX
Posts: 348
Last night after bringing the clean rig home, Aaron started getting into the new engine. After taking off the exhaust manifold, he found that one of the cylinders was wet with diesel. For a visual, the normal ones looked like this: http://bit.ly/g6PV15 and one of them looked like this: http://bit.ly/gCeAr9 As he explained it to me, this could be one of a couple of things: 1) A bad cylinder or 2) a faulty injector that was overspraying. Aaron called the guy in Tulsa that we bought the engine from, and he reassured Aaron that the engine sounded awesome when he pulled it, which *should* rule out #1. However, he decided it would be a good idea to remove the head to give a visual inspection and make sure there were no surprises. This added a slight additional cost of a gasket kit into the picture, but it is a small price to pay for piece of mind and new gaskets are never a bad thing!





He said that the cylinders looked like they are in great shape and there was no sign of wear. As for the injector, Aaron recommended that we don't purchase one yet. He wants to get the engine in and run it before determining if that is really necessary.

With that piece of business handled, he shifted focus to the tranny. He removed the AMC 727 from the 360.



And loaded them both up on the trailer to take to a shop there in town that he has a relationship with.



He ran the job past them of mating the Dodge and AMC 727s, and indicated that it will be no big deal, charging $100 labor, and whatever cost in filters, gaskets, etc. As it turns out, it is more than just a matter of unbolting the tailshaft and swapping it out, and is actually going to require them to take it apart. While they have it apart, they are going to check clutches and other parts to make sure that everything is in good working order and put it together.

So, between these two jobs, I think we are going to be in good shape and will be able to progress forward with pretty decent confidence in the parts involved.

More soon...
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 02-12-2011, 10:29 PM
olllllo's Avatar
olllllo olllllo is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Jul 29, 2003
Location: Providence Village, TX
Posts: 348
The Cummins engine got a little prettier today. He sent me these pics this morning.





He also got the new gasket set in. His "Aaron Reeves Garage" company logo is blue, and he is wanting to use all blue hoses on the new stuff. He said he opened up the gasket set and was pleasantly surprised to see this:



A huge number of Cummins installs go in with boring beige paint (like this: http://i.imgur.com/ENdnr.jpg). I am very happy to not be following that trend.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 02-13-2011, 07:42 PM
jeepcomj's Avatar
jeepcomj jeepcomj is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 18, 2007
Location: Burlington, WI
Posts: 66
very nice so far.


How much did the motor and trans cost you? I'm thinking about this one one I'm picking up.
__________________
1986 Jeep comanche
3800 camaro motor 5 speed 4wd 3" lift full
skids

1986 Jeep Cherokee
2.5 4 cyl, 5 speed. 4wd 4.10 gears skid plate
package
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 02-13-2011, 08:12 PM
olllllo's Avatar
olllllo olllllo is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Jul 29, 2003
Location: Providence Village, TX
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepcomj
very nice so far.


How much did the motor and trans cost you? I'm thinking about this one one I'm picking up.

I paid $2000 for the motor, which was 100% complete from radiator to the bread truck transmission, and all accessories. You could literally hook up 12v and a fuel line and it would have run as it was. I found the Dodge diesel TF727 for 250, but paid 100 to have it brought from CA to Tulsa, and I drove up there to pick it up.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 02-13-2011, 08:35 PM
austinaubinoe's Avatar
austinaubinoe austinaubinoe is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Aug 08, 2010
Location: Maryland/ Williamsport, PA
Posts: 2,995
jeez I thought you could buy the whole bread truck for $500!?!

Still your making a good investment, this jeep is going to run for a LONG time
__________________
Austin

1991 Hunter Green Grand Wagoneer
5.9 2bbl-727-NP229-TFI-30x9.5 Firestone M/T's-Brush Guard-tire mount
SOON: 4350 and cast iron intake

Others:
-1994 Baby Grand
-2000 XJ cherokee on Tons
-1953 REO M35A2 6x6
-1955 Willys Pickup



Quote:
Originally Posted by rustywagoneers_com
i am not an addict, i can stop anytime.
i dont have a problem, you people have the problem.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 02-13-2011, 09:07 PM
olllllo's Avatar
olllllo olllllo is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Jul 29, 2003
Location: Providence Village, TX
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by austinaubinoe
jeez I thought you could buy the whole bread truck for $500!?!

Still your making a good investment, this jeep is going to run for a LONG time

If you have a line on bread trucks with strong running 4BTs in it for 500 bucks, you should go into business! That is definitely not the norm down here, but more in the 2500 range.

But yeah, I really feel like I am giving it a new life. I have had 7 Jeeps come and go throughout the years (3 CJs, 2 XJs, a TJ, and this GW), and while I loved each of those (well, at least 6 of them), the wag is the only one that I really felt that I could never part with. This is really me committing fully to that notion.

By the way... I am making a top secret purchase in the morning that has nothing whatsoever to do with the engine swap, and is something that I have never seen done on a FSJ before. I may have some really amazing pictures next weekend as I go down to the shop to do a side job on it! I've said too much...
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 02-13-2011, 09:09 PM
jaber's Avatar
jaber jaber is offline
Dragin Az
 
Join Date: Oct 17, 2003
Location: Chino Valley, Arizona
Posts: 8,054
TEASE!!!!!
__________________
Jeff


46 cj2a

51 Willys p/u
'51 Willys Parkway Conversion
'74 CJ5
'75 J-20 Wrecker
'75 J-20 Cummins service bed
'77 J-10 p/u
'79 Cherokee
'88 Grand Wagoneer
http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/jeffaber/
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 02-13-2011, 09:21 PM
jeepcomj's Avatar
jeepcomj jeepcomj is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 18, 2007
Location: Burlington, WI
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by olllllo
I paid $2000 for the motor, which was 100% complete from radiator to the bread truck transmission, and all accessories. You could literally hook up 12v and a fuel line and it would have run as it was. I found the Dodge diesel TF727 for 250, but paid 100 to have it brought from CA to Tulsa, and I drove up there to pick it up.

K. that's on the high side. I can probably get the complete truck for less, and would be going with a manual trans instead.

this is a nice build. I watched all the videos.
__________________
1986 Jeep comanche
3800 camaro motor 5 speed 4wd 3" lift full
skids

1986 Jeep Cherokee
2.5 4 cyl, 5 speed. 4wd 4.10 gears skid plate
package
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 02-13-2011, 10:41 PM
thinder's Avatar
thinder thinder is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 18, 2009
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 129
If you can, you better. I paid $1800 for my motor alone and that was 2 years ago. there is probably $1000 in aluminum in the rest of the truck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepcomj
K. that's on the high side. I can probably get the complete truck for less, and would be going with a manual trans instead.

this is a nice build. I watched all the videos.
__________________
86 Grand Wagoneer
Cummins Ve pumped 4bta
47RH
np241
D44 front and rear
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 02-14-2011, 01:35 PM
olllllo's Avatar
olllllo olllllo is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Jul 29, 2003
Location: Providence Village, TX
Posts: 348
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaber
TEASE!!!!!

Dang it! I ordered said "top secret" part this morning and it takes them 2 weeks to produce it, so I guess I won't be doing it this weekend. I am having it shipped down to the shop where the wagoneer is, and will probably do the install down there the day I go pick it up. It is going to make for a ridiculously awesome drive home!

In the mean time, I found out this morning as Aaron was polishing stuff up that my 4BT was actually a ReCon (Cummins remanufactured product)

Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 02-14-2011, 07:11 PM
jeepcomj's Avatar
jeepcomj jeepcomj is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 18, 2007
Location: Burlington, WI
Posts: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinder
If you can, you better. I paid $1800 for my motor alone and that was 2 years ago. there is probably $1000 in aluminum in the rest of the truck.

well...I do rebuild semi trucks for a living. it's actually a fairly simple step down from an F750 pickup (cummins 5.9 ISB powered)...and through the job I know people who also have bread vans.

This motor is a pretty simple little guy to work on...we've even got 6 speed manual transmissions at work, that will bolt right up to it. I'll have to see what those will cost me...we scrap some of them...

-Pat
__________________
1986 Jeep comanche
3800 camaro motor 5 speed 4wd 3" lift full
skids

1986 Jeep Cherokee
2.5 4 cyl, 5 speed. 4wd 4.10 gears skid plate
package
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 02-14-2011, 07:17 PM
The Colonel's Avatar
The Colonel The Colonel is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Feb 21, 2010
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 2,842
Very cool project- I can't wait to see the finished swap.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 02-17-2011, 10:53 AM
thinder's Avatar
thinder thinder is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 18, 2009
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 129
Its not a terribly difficult swap (at least mine wasnt) so if you can get an engine or a truck for cheap im sure plenty of people will beat a path to your doorway to get it. Might be able to make a small chunk of change on it. What 6 speed tranny do you have? Cummins uses an adapter plate so technically almost everything can bolt right up...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepcomj
well...I do rebuild semi trucks for a living. it's actually a fairly simple step down from an F750 pickup (cummins 5.9 ISB powered)...and through the job I know people who also have bread vans.

This motor is a pretty simple little guy to work on...we've even got 6 speed manual transmissions at work, that will bolt right up to it. I'll have to see what those will cost me...we scrap some of them...

-Pat
__________________
86 Grand Wagoneer
Cummins Ve pumped 4bta
47RH
np241
D44 front and rear
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 02-17-2011, 08:08 PM
olllllo's Avatar
olllllo olllllo is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Jul 29, 2003
Location: Providence Village, TX
Posts: 348
So a couple of updates. First, we got the call this afternoon that the transmission work is done. I am not even going to publicly state how cheap it was, but they gave us a KILLER deal. So, I now have a sweet Dodge/AMC TF727 hybrid, freshly rebuilt.

Secondly, I don't think I posted this, but a couple days ago, Aaron tore down the 4BT to check the pistons, considering the one wet cylinder from several posts ago. In doing so, he found some bearing wear, which validated our decision to replace the bearings in the lower end. Everything else looked awesome though, and pistons looked good. Here is a shot of the wear that he found.



As he explained it to me, they actually build those in layers with the brass underneath so that the wear is plainly visible. Pretty cool.

Shot of the piston.



He got the rest of the gaskets in, but is still waiting for the bearing kit. Hopefully we will see that soon so he can start getting it back together. In the mean time, however, he has not been just sitting on his hands! Check out what he sent me tonight. He and his wife both said it looks far better in person, but and that it looks like a friggin show truck at the moment. Looks pretty sweet to me!

For perspective, here is a "before" shot of the frame, but as you know from this thread, this would have been a miraculous "after" shot compared to when I brought it in.



another "before" shot


Check this out.










Last edited by olllllo : 02-17-2011 at 11:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 02-17-2011, 08:30 PM
Brizio's Avatar
Brizio Brizio is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Apr 11, 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 4,850
Nice all black!
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 02-17-2011, 10:43 PM
KyooMac's Avatar
KyooMac KyooMac is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Oct 26, 2006
Location: Chicago land area
Posts: 464
Back in Black!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cummins 5.9 L swap WillysDriver Diesel Swaps 69 02-03-2011 09:19 PM
Cummins Turbo Deisel Swap vintagetrks Diesel Swaps 6 12-04-2009 10:50 PM
Cummins Quandry DAHoyle General FSJ Tech 22 06-21-2009 11:05 AM
Turning Radius, Pitman arm? Steering swap. Louiseven General FSJ Tech 5 11-30-2006 12:25 PM
For all you cummins swap guys oldcj5guy General FSJ Tech 1 11-26-2006 08:01 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner