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  #1  
Old 11-22-2014, 02:09 PM
ngasman ngasman is offline
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1971 Jeep Wagoneer 1414C with Factory 1972 Engine

Hello, Let me begin by saying that I am honored to be among the many Jeep enthusiasts and experts on this site. I will be listing my 1971 Custom Jeep Wagoneer on a popular auction website in a couple weeks - and I would like to gain as much feedback, facts, background and knowledge as possible from the Jeep experts who are part of the IFSJA to include as part of my listing. I'm almost 55 years old - and I've been restoring Jeeps for the past 40+ years - and I have never seen anything quite like what I own. I purchased my 1971 Jeep Wagoneer about 4 years ago from the US Army at Ft Collins, CO for a little more than $ 2,000 and then shipped it across the USA to Pittsburgh, PA to begin restoring it. It never struck me as anything special until I tried to find a new or rebuilt carb for my 360 ci V8 engine - and after purchasing and returning four 1971 carbs - a mechanic finally told me that I had a factory 1972 engine in my 1971 Wagoneer. I finally bought a 1972 carb for my 1972 360 ci V8 which was a perfect fit. I know Jeep installed some of their last 360 ci V8 engines on the 1971 1414X and 1414D models - which had the internally vented carbs - unlike mine which has the externally vented carb. I've tried to buy other parts for my engine - and have yet to find any 1971 part that fits - while all of the 1972 parts fit perfectly. All of the VIN numbers match on this Jeep which are 1414C19602466. The paint color looks a lot more like the 1972 President Red than the 1971 Matador red used by AMC. There is also no wood grain on either side - nor any evidence that any ever existed. It has bucket seats and no center console - and a steel dashboard with no evidence of a dash pad ever being installed. I've spoken with Patrick Foster about my Jeep who wrote " The Story of Jeep " and is widely accepted as being one of the foremost authorities on Jeep in the USA. He was very generous with his time and believes that five or six Jeeps like mine were built in late July 1971 - and at least two of them still exist. If anyone can tell me what they think the production numbers might have been for the 1414C and 1414D in 1971 that would be great. I understand about 140 1414X were built in 1971. I've heard that no 1970 1414C exist - and only one 1970 1414X Super exists. I'm not sure why my Jeep has no woodgrain trim - but it does have a roof rack. The rear window is a hand crank. It's an odd duck or a rare bird for sure - but I'm not sure how that effects it's value. A website called Caaarguide values a 1971 Jeep Wagoneer at $14K in very good condition and $21K in excellent condition. I've had some folks at Barrett-Jackson tell me on the right day at the right place my Jeep could go over $50K - but I'm not sure about that. I have about $16K invested in the four year restoration. Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated. Thank you.
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  #2  
Old 11-22-2014, 02:23 PM
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badaboom badaboom is offline
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Really don't have any prefect accurate answers for you.
My thoughts.
Possibly the red color could have been a particular color for the army
like for the fire department...
Might also be possible that the original motor had an issue and the army replaced the engine.

Post some pictures.
AMC was never one to really provide accurate specific vehicle build numbers.
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Old 11-22-2014, 03:23 PM
joe joe is offline
 
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No idea on production numbers but sounds like a typical "fleet rig". They genrally don't have much for ext trim(woodgrain etc). Same with the standard manual tailgate window rather than the optional elec. Doesn't surprise me it's ex military. They were common military stateside staff, mil police rigs etc and with Fed orgs like the USFS, USGS and civilian PUD's, railroads etc. A 360 in a 71 isn't uncommon either. 1971 was the first year the AMC 304 and 360's were an available option. Should be an engine build code tag on the front of the right side(pass side) valve cover. Won't tell you when it was installed though. Model year change over on the assembly line is in July of each year.So the 71's were built from July70 to July of 71. None of this era except the D model Supers are of any real value over the others but striped down fleet rigs are less common cause The Gov and civi corporations weren't as big of a buying market. Since it's your car you can take "less common" anyway you want to and value it as desired but convincing a buyer of your perceived rare value will be harder. Personally I like striped down fleet rigs but wouldn't pay more for less. Sounds like a nice car but I'm partial to the early 70's rigs.
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  #4  
Old 11-22-2014, 04:40 PM
ngasman ngasman is offline
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Thank You

Thank you all very much for all of the feedback and answers. Almost every Jeep enthusiast has a story - or knows someone who has a story - about some of the interesting and innovative things Jeep did during their very lean years - the late 1960s and early 1970s. During my own 55 years I've heard a lot of tales - some probably true and some probably folk tales. It's a feeling of satisfaction to finally own a piece of one of the more interesting pieces of Jeep's past. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall of the assembly line when this one rolled off. In a few weeks I hope the new owner of this Jeep Wagoneer will enjoy it as much as I did restoring it.
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  #5  
Old 11-22-2014, 06:18 PM
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mud89 mud89 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ngasman
I know Jeep installed some of their last 360 ci V8 engines on the 1971 1414X and 1414D models - which had the internally vented carbs - unlike mine which has the externally vented carb.
Jeep switched from the Buick 350ci to the AMC 360ci and 304ci in January 1971, except for the 1414X, J4700 and J4800 which got the new engines in march 71. Do you mean rather the last 350ci ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngasman
All of the VIN numbers match on this Jeep which are 1414C19602466. The paint color looks a lot more like the 1972 President Red than the 1971 Matador red used by AMC.
The "president red" color existed already in '71 for the wagoneers
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngasma
There is also no wood grain on either side - nor any evidence that any ever existed. It has bucket seats and no center console
Woodgrain in '71 was an option for the 1414c and standard for the 1414x
The fact that your wagoneer has bucket seats is interesting, it's an option for a '72 custom but i didn't find this option for a '71, maybe this option was actually introduced for the late '71 examples ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngasman
He was very generous with his time and believes that five or six Jeeps like mine were built in late July 1971
Do you have the yellow sticker on the door jamb , driver side, with a 'july 71' production date ? According to the serial number it was built anyway certainly later than may 71.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ngasman
I understand about 140 1414X were built in 1971. I've heard that no 1970 1414C exist - and only one 1970 1414X Super exists.
No , more than 200 1414X were built in '1971 with a 360 and you have to add the 1414X built with a 350. I don't understand why you say that no 1970 1414C exist ?? Maybe you mean 1414D ?
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Last edited by mud89 : 11-22-2014 at 06:22 PM.
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  #6  
Old 11-22-2014, 09:00 PM
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jdaniel83 jdaniel83 is offline
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I thought I rememberd an old thread regarding the rarity of the '70 1414X models, and I finally found it:


http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showt...up er+special

I never did look at the paint code under the hood of our '70 1414X parts rig, but I'll try to look tomorrow if I get the chance.
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  #7  
Old 11-23-2014, 07:54 PM
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FSJunkie FSJunkie is offline
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They switched from the Buick 350 to the AMC 360 mid-year in 1971, but often times catalog listings (like at the parts store) list the 350 for 1971 and the 360 for 1972. Not the case, a 1971 may have either engine. Just because you have a 360 does not mean it's a 1972 motor. Lots of 360's can have 1971 build dates on them.

Look at the tag on the front of the passenger's side valve cover. If the first digit is a 4, it's a 1971 motor. 1972 would be a 5.
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  #8  
Old 11-26-2014, 10:17 AM
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mud89 mud89 is offline
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Any update ?
And BTW :
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  #9  
Old 11-26-2014, 12:07 PM
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Carnuck Carnuck is offline
 
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The '71 360 is a flat flange motor.

Edit: '71 304, 360 and 401 are flat flange motors. It's also the year of the only small bell 258 (starter on driver's side). If someone has one of the early 6 cyls with TH400 adapter, there are a lot of people looking for proof and part numbers.
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Last edited by Carnuck : 11-28-2014 at 11:27 AM.
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  #10  
Old 11-28-2014, 09:22 AM
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Tinkerjeep Tinkerjeep is offline
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Nuck, you mean the crank flange? That's right. I have an AMC publication that says the 1972 cranks are the newer style flange and any older style flange will need special machining in order to fit it to the "modern" TF727 tranny.

That is one way to tell if the crank (at least) is a 72 - if it has the modern style flange. I'm not 100% sure about automatic trannies on the early FSJs but they seem to be all GM -TH400s, and from 1969-ish to 1974-ish they used a Buick Nail Head bellhousing tranny with an adapter ring. In 1975-ish they used an exclusive AMC bellhousing for the TH400 and there was no adapter ring. I'm cloudy on the years though. Most of my hands-on experience is from 76-81.

But the other thing I'm sure of is this: The head casting numbers: 319 6291 on 1970 -71 heads with 51cc chambers. Late 71 and 72 heads with 58cc heads are 321 2993 and 321 3948. If your engine was built in late 71 or early 72 this won't help though.

I'm not sure here either: but I think the 72 FSJ engines all had EGR intakes.

I also think the carbs were the Motorcraft 4100 square bore carbs for the fourbarrels from 1970 - 1972. I believe they then used the 4350 goofy-bore carbs from 73 to 78, the last year of a 4-barrel carb option. So your 360 if its a 4v should have the same 4100 on it???
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  #11  
Old 11-28-2014, 11:27 AM
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Nailhead TH400 was used till '73 and part of '74 with a few earlier Borg Warner autos (mostly the OHC 230)
The '73 adapter kit will fit Gen II or Gen III motor to the nailhead trans. I had (and scrapped because no-one wanted it after posting on Ebay 4 times) the 327 to nailhead TH400 adapter and flexplate. It probably would have worked with any Gen I Nash/AMC V8.

TH400 went away with the beginning of 1980 model year.

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