1989 Grand Wagoneer timing, fuel, vac issue help

[babywag]

Cheap chinese poorly manufactured part vs. a nice billet quality made part?
I highly recommend you reconsider that decision.
It running like poo, was likely the cam gear chewed up. The MSD is probably fine.

The gear chewed up is from mismatched gears OR timing chain sprocket oil slot being misaligned.
Could also be a poorly made aftermarket timing cover.
You'll want to try and see if it's an original AMC/Jeep part.

No way to tell now, but if you're going all the way in I'd carefully examine the oil slot.
SC/397 has a very good thread about the timing gear oil slot problem.

A distributor that doesn't even fit properly is a HUGE red flag, get rid of it, or you'll be doing the job all over again.
It is well documented that certain HEI distributors are junk/eat gears.
It will never run right with a chewed gear, most of time not @ all. Trying to get it running with a chewed gear is beyond a waste of time.

Here is one of his threads...

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?p=1678711

Looks like photosuckit killed a lot of his others about the oiling slot problem.

Update. I have a new distributor, I purchased the summit racing HEI. it has mixed reviews but I am on a tight budget here. I tried to stab it in there but the shaft seems to be too large to fit comfortably in the hole.... anyone else run into this? also i looked down into the engine with my light and noticed the camshaft distributor drive gear is VERY chewed up. looks like someone tried to whittle it with a knife. I bought a matched set of replacement gears with good reviews off of summit racing for 30 dollars. would a chewed up gear that is most likely binding with the distributor cause starter lag? I also bought a engine seal kit. I think I am going to start with the front of the engine and go through it replacing everything as needed while installing the gears. after doing some reading about other amc engines, i have taken that these parts may become oil starved during normal operation, is this a true thing or not? if so, how can I ensure the parts are getting enough oil without doing a lot of modifications?

thanks

[mommiesmilk]

Well i got the front cover off and took off the cam-distributor gear and I will try to post some pictures, it is really bad. I am wondering if it would have made the MSD distributor mechanical advance work even though it idled just fine. I would hate to et it all back together, put the msd dizzy back in and have it still not work right. I guess trial and error is my future. there is no way to lock out the mechanical advance on these things, just the vac advance. I am going to check the timing chain for excess slack tomorrow. i believe your supposed to put a wrench on it, take the slack out of one side, push the slack side towards the middle and mark the block where it rests, then push it out and measure with a ruler, any more than 7/8" slack is too much. is this correct? or has anyone with experience doing this suggest anything else?

here is the pic of the gear.

[nograin]

Looks like photosuckit killed a lot of his others
Pictures are still visible by using the work around for your browser. Link is in the General Forum Photo threads. It works with newer Firefox and some others.

[babywag]

Just check chain slop, the cover is off should be obvious if it?s too much.
Can readily lock out centrifugal advance on an MSD.
Like I mentioned the MSD is probably fine, problem was/is your cam gear.
I am amazed it even ran with that gear!

[mommiesmilk]

hello everyone, here is an update about my 89 grand wagoneer. After pulling the front cover, I found multiple issues. the first was the cam gear was chewed up, the next was the timing chain was so slack, i could take it off by hand wit the cam and crank gear in place. I ended up replacing the timing chain with a cloyes brand timing set and also used a matched set of new cam gears. I got it all on there and assembled the engine... i must say the a/c and alternator brackets are literally like a jigsaw puzzle. since the cam gear was in such a chewed up state, i decided to replace the brand new oil i put in two weeks ago with clean oil and chane the oil filter. i went to crank it up and didnt get anything except an oil pressure reading of 60+ and a dead battery. after some poking around, i found I forgot to connect the oil pump wire. once connected that took care of the oil pressure, it is now @ 30-40. I hand cranked the engine to tdc once again, and stabbed the distributor 180 degrees from it's original position and it started in less than a second and runs very smoothly now. I set the timing to 12 degrees btc and revved the engine to 3000 to get my total mechanical advance timing. the total timing i figue to be around 40 degrees. during the test drive, i am experiencing some engine lag, I do not have the vac advance hooked up yet, it was and remains plugged for now as it is not hooked to ported vac source, but to manifold vac. what is a the typical total timing value for the amc 360? should it be close to a small block Chevy of 34-38?
thanks for all your help

[babywag]

I do not have the vac advance hooked up yet, it was and remains plugged for now

These aren't race cars, use the vacuum advance. The ONLY difference between ported/manifold is @ idle.
Need it for it to run properly.

40* may be a touch on high side.

[nograin]

Way too much.

There's probably a photo of the factory advances posted on the web - may be Tom's site,
Yup. Here you go:

http://oljeep.com/gw/vac/79/79-FSJ-360_DistAdv.jpg

That's '79 but its probably the same.
Put initial at 12, then 12+14 = 26* at 4000 rpm. Take a look at whether the two silver spring are giving that slope. Probably need the strongest spings they sell.
Also the vacuum advance should come in play at much less than 12" and be fully advanced by 12". That will help mpg and mid throttle response.

If that graph of advance doesn't make sense, all you have to do is add initial timing to every point on the advance to know what the timing should be at any rpm.
So the factory team figured out the best milage and power would come with 12.5* at 650 rpm, and 32* at 4400 rpm. They compromise a little bit for variables so there's minimal complaints or service issues but its good starting point.

Might try a slower curve and a bit more initial. A two stage curve is difficult to do on most aftermarket distributors. Just go for the best compromise you can get with a straight line advance.

The lag could be many things - may or may not be timing.