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Old 10-01-2008, 10:28 AM
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rem2506 rem2506 is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Apr 13, 2008
Location: Rifle, CO
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360 rebuild

Looking for some advice and input everybody. I have never done work like this but I am trying to learn and I have a couple people that can help guide me in the process. I have a 91 Waggoneer that has a tired engine (360). I picked up a doner from a local FSJ guy that did a conversion to a 350, so he no longer needed the 360. The doner 360 engine came out of a '78 Cherokee.

The rig as it sits: Engine/Tranny are stock. The suspension has been converted to SOA. Rebuilt axles (D44) with 4.56 gearing. I am running 33" and want to get to 35". The tranny may need to be rebuilt, but I am trying to hold off. I want a final project that I can drive to the trail and wheel and drive home.

The plan: Rebuild the doner 360 and swap into the '91. Of course like all of us I am on a budget (not sure how much I can spend yet, but the less spent the better). My current thoughts are to change the cam to try to get a little more power. I will have the block "trued" up. I am not planning on boring out the cylinders specifically, only to have them cleaned up. I ultimately want to go to a throdle body injection, but probably not at this point ($$). So maybe a new carb, if it is worth it. Do I need a different intake for the throdle body injection? Will a new manifold work with a carb? What about ignition systems, good bad or indiffernt?

I am looking for any input you can provide and as specific as you can provide it (even to the level of a make and model if you want). As I indicated earlier, I am new to this and am not fully familiar with everything.

Thanks in advance,
Jeff
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  #2  
Old 10-01-2008, 11:03 AM
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Chevelleguy Chevelleguy is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 20, 2003
Location: Hughes Springs, TX
Posts: 5,565
Depending on the shape of your engine, a simple re-ring with no machine work and a new cam, rod and main bearings, timing chain and gaskets will run you around $500 if you do all the work yourself. A full on rebuild by a good local machine shop could run you 2-3 grand.

A stock intake can be used with a TBI but you will have to fab up an adapter to mount between the 2bbl intake and the 4bbl adapter used for the TBI (I am running one on my rig). An aftermarket, 4bbl intake will yield more power and will simplify the installation of the TBI, but you will need an adapter to run your stock carb.
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David "If all else fails, read the instructions."
83 Wag Lt,BJ's 6"lift,360/727/Pinned229,D44/trac-lok,AMC20/lock-right,35/12.50 Baja MTZ,Pro-Jection EFI.
10$ NP229 fix http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=2520
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Old 10-01-2008, 11:41 AM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
Join Date: May 29, 2003
Location: Medford MA USA
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Chevelleguy is right about an old-school "overhaul" - typically includes new rings, rod bearings and valve job. I too would use a new timing chain, gaskets, and measure/upgrade the oil pump.

I'd advise you to measure the bore taper of your cylinders before you install new rings though. If the taper is excessive, the rings will expand and contract as they travel the bore. This leads to fatigue and premature failure.

Engine building on a budget is a very slippery slope - the might-as-wells can pile up fast. Deciding what needs to be done and what doesn't requires some experience, research and careful measurements. A complete rebuild is much easier for the novice because much less judgment is required.

In a rebuild, your pistons will be the single most expensive purchase. If you can reuse your pistons, you'll have a 'budget' rebuild. Any boring of the cylinders and the original pistons will be too small. My impression is you don't understand these issues very well. You want to ONLY ream the ridge and hone - no "truing up" - if you reuse your pistons. You don't want to remove any material. Just cut the ridge so you can remove the pistons and roughen the walls so the rings will seat. Both ridge ream and honing you can do yourself.

If you have not read any books, I'd suggest you read this one: http://www.amazon.com/Engine-Builder...2882659&sr=8-1 - cheap and good info.

Re the TBI, the GM throttle bodies are all 2V style. I would think that a 4V manifold under these wouldn't provide much advantage. I also thought that 2V Holley-to-TB adapters were available - take a look before you buy the 4V adapter. The AMC manifold is the same pattern as a 2V Holley.
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Last edited by tgreese : 10-01-2008 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 10-01-2008, 04:58 PM
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djongeward djongeward is offline
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Join Date: May 21, 2008
Location: Imperial Valley, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgreese
Re the TBI, the GM throttle bodies are all 2V style. I would think that a 4V manifold under these wouldn't provide much advantage. I also thought that 2V Holley-to-TB adapters were available - take a look before you buy the 4V adapter. The AMC manifold is the same pattern as a 2V Holley.

Are those still available, 2V TBI Holly? I always thought these were a good option for many reasons. I think they were direct bolt in also.

All the above info 2X for sure.

You guys are describing a street rod rebuild, cheap, nasty, with good return on your money.
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89 Grandwagoneer, built 360, COMP cam set, port matched Edelbrock SP2P, 475 cfm Holley ORA, Thorleys, MSD6a, extra cooling and oiling.
76 Cherokee S Chief - rebuilt stock, Holley, Performer, MSD Dizzy.
89 GW parts waggy
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Old 10-01-2008, 05:25 PM
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jdaniel83 jdaniel83 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 26, 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 928
For my installation of the Holley Pro-Jection system on my '89 GW I had to buy a new 4bbl aluminum intake because I could not find an adaptor that seemed to fit right. According to the Holley manual that came with my system a 4bbl intake is needed but if you are not wanting to spend the $$$ for TBI system right now (Holley pro-jection about $975 from Summit) I would suggest a new carb (start around $350 from Summit).
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  #6  
Old 10-01-2008, 08:01 PM
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Chevelleguy Chevelleguy is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 20, 2003
Location: Hughes Springs, TX
Posts: 5,565
I believe an X-member tried the 2bbl adapter to TBI that is made by Trans-Dapt and it wouldn't work.

I bought a slightly used 2D Pro-Jection for $500 and didn't have any more money for a new intake. So I made a plate from 1/8" steel that would close off the bottom of the Holley 4bbl/TBI and bolt to the 2bbl intake. It didn't cost me anything and it works.

The Holley TBI flows 670cfm, the same as GM's 454 TBI and much more than the 2bbl carb our rigs came with. I noticed more power with the added air flow and I think the increase would be even more significant if I replaced the intake with a Performer.
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David "If all else fails, read the instructions."
83 Wag Lt,BJ's 6"lift,360/727/Pinned229,D44/trac-lok,AMC20/lock-right,35/12.50 Baja MTZ,Pro-Jection EFI.
10$ NP229 fix http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=2520
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  #7  
Old 10-04-2008, 05:20 PM
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djongeward djongeward is offline
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Join Date: May 21, 2008
Location: Imperial Valley, CA
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Check this out: http://www.pawinc.com/AMC_Parts.html

This is where I've gotten my 360 rebuild kit and most parts.
Also Bulltear, BJ's, even Team Grandwagoneer.

Click the box for rebuild kits, I got the "Master Rebuild Kit" but upgraded it with COMP cam, moly rings, roller timing set w/gears, and cam bearings.
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89 Grandwagoneer, built 360, COMP cam set, port matched Edelbrock SP2P, 475 cfm Holley ORA, Thorleys, MSD6a, extra cooling and oiling.
76 Cherokee S Chief - rebuilt stock, Holley, Performer, MSD Dizzy.
89 GW parts waggy

Last edited by djongeward : 10-05-2008 at 06:18 PM.
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