International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > General FSJ Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-24-2020, 07:04 PM
ridenrace6 ridenrace6 is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: May 22, 2020
Location: Alabama
Posts: 10
73 j4000 71-73 Nailhead 400 to 74-79 amc 400 trans?

when i bought this truck about 3 year ago the previous owner had removed trans because the bellhousing was cracked really bad. my trans builder couldnt find a nailhead case but did find a amc case.
i have removed the belhousing adapter, flexplate and associated spacer, also i have gotten a new pioneer flexplate along with new arp flexplate and converter bolts, also got a new crown trans mount. i also purchased a new trans to tcase adapter and d20 twin stick kit from bjs.
i just now am getting around to try and get this thing back on the road and have run into a little hickup, the dust cover and thin plate behind the flexplate, ( i dont know the proper name for it ), doesnt seem to work with the newer trans, also i got a newer 360 that had a 727 trans with the truck but no dust cover, does anybody know if the thin plate from it will work?
if not could somebody direct me to a source for the parts i need and the proper name, and maybe a pic of the correct parts?
engine in the truck is the original 73 amc 360.

Last edited by ridenrace6 : 06-02-2020 at 07:08 PM. Reason: mistype
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-31-2020, 08:57 PM
ridenrace6 ridenrace6 is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: May 22, 2020
Location: Alabama
Posts: 10
it’s been a week and no info, am i the only one who has done this?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-01-2020, 04:38 AM
wiley-moeracing wiley-moeracing is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Feb 15, 2010
Location: arizona
Posts: 1,307
Your trying to hook up an amc trans to a bop motor, will not work, you need an amc motor to hook up to an amc trans or a bop trans to a bop motor.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-02-2020, 09:13 AM
ridenrace6 ridenrace6 is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: May 22, 2020
Location: Alabama
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiley-moeracing
Your trying to hook up an amc trans to a bop motor, will not work, you need an amc motor to hook up to an amc trans or a bop trans to a bop motor.
negative, since when did buick make a 360?
73’s had amc engines
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-02-2020, 09:33 AM
fulsizjeep's Avatar
fulsizjeep fulsizjeep is offline
Señor Jackhead
 
Join Date: Aug 21, 2002
Location: Jubilee Jeeps.SWCO
Posts: 22,403
I didn't realize the plate on the back of the motor was different for AMC V8 to BOP T400. I have one from a 76 AMC V8 to AMC bell T400 if that is what you need.
__________________
Flint
Ran when parked.
http://jubileejeeps.org/quadratrac
88 GW, 401/727/208, 5" lift, D44s/4.10s/locked up, 35s with a few Evil Twin & TT's Fabworks mods
76 401 Wag, 77 401 Wag, 77 401 J20
http://eviltwinfab.com http://www.ttsfabworks.com
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-02-2020, 03:33 PM
ridenrace6 ridenrace6 is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: May 22, 2020
Location: Alabama
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by fulsizjeep
I didn't realize the plate on the back of the motor was different for AMC V8 to BOP T400. I have one from a 76 AMC V8 to AMC bell T400 if that is what you need.
thats what i’ve been trying to figure out, nobody has given me a definite yes or no on whether they are the same, i only know that the dust cover i have from the bop trans doesn’t seem to work with the amc trans.
can you post a pic of the 76 plate you have?
or if your willing to ship i’ll buy it, i can at least get trans in that way, i will however still need a dust cover.

Last edited by ridenrace6 : 06-02-2020 at 03:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-02-2020, 05:56 PM
wiley-moeracing wiley-moeracing is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Feb 15, 2010
Location: arizona
Posts: 1,307
It says nailhead 400 to amc 400? Did not say anything about a 360? Now I am confused
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-02-2020, 07:02 PM
ridenrace6 ridenrace6 is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: May 22, 2020
Location: Alabama
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiley-moeracing
It says nailhead 400 to amc 400? Did not say anything about a 360? Now I am confused
im sorry if i didnt put in enough info, i'll add it to the original post.
i did say 73 j4000 tho and its my understanding everything after 70 had amc engines, and 73 was last year for bop trans, 74-79 were amc engines and amc trans.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-03-2020, 04:34 AM
wiley-moeracing wiley-moeracing is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Feb 15, 2010
Location: arizona
Posts: 1,307
Yes correct but at some point someone may have replaced with a different motor and driveline, happens all the time.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-03-2020, 07:48 AM
tgreese's Avatar
tgreese tgreese is offline
 
Join Date: May 29, 2003
Location: Medford MA USA
Posts: 11,293
Jeep never offered the BOP TH400 transmission. They either adapted the nailhead transmission to their engines with a ring adapter, or they used a TH400 with a direct-to-AMC-engines case. Nailhead is not BOP. Starting in 1980, they switched to the A727 transmission, a Chrysler 727 with a case matching the AMC engines.

The part between the flexplate and the block is called a spacer by Jeep. All three of the above applications use different parts here. A '73 should have a nailhead transmission, and its spacer is a 3184901. Around '74, Jeep switched to the AMC-case TH400, which uses a 5357217. Not surprising, the A727 spacer is different, PN 3213743.

IIRC Ristow has covered the nailhead-to-AMC TH400 conversion, and said it works without any changes. Certainly you can get parts for the AMC case (convertor, flex plate) easier than for the oddball nailhead implementation.

Post in the WTB forum here and at fsjnetwork.com. There are Wagoneer-only wrecking yards; Montana Overland, Jakes, likely others that are Jeep-only. See if you can locate a Wagoneer locally by checking enigines or transmissions on car-part.com It's not a part that wears out; you just need to find one.
__________________
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk

Last edited by tgreese : 06-03-2020 at 08:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-03-2020, 07:53 AM
fulsizjeep's Avatar
fulsizjeep fulsizjeep is offline
Señor Jackhead
 
Join Date: Aug 21, 2002
Location: Jubilee Jeeps.SWCO
Posts: 22,403
Here ya go. There are two plates hanging on the nail. This plate also fits the 727 configuration (80-91).


__________________
Flint
Ran when parked.
http://jubileejeeps.org/quadratrac
88 GW, 401/727/208, 5" lift, D44s/4.10s/locked up, 35s with a few Evil Twin & TT's Fabworks mods
76 401 Wag, 77 401 Wag, 77 401 J20
http://eviltwinfab.com http://www.ttsfabworks.com
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-05-2020, 04:17 PM
ridenrace6 ridenrace6 is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: May 22, 2020
Location: Alabama
Posts: 10
i tried to post pics of what i have but it says they are too big, anyway i have a plate for the 727 trans and its the same as the one posted above but when i put it on trans dowel holes to see how it fits its lopsided so bad i dont see a way of ever getting a dust cover to fit
also the nail head and 727 plates are same thickness

Last edited by ridenrace6 : 06-05-2020 at 08:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-09-2020, 04:34 PM
tgreese's Avatar
tgreese tgreese is offline
 
Join Date: May 29, 2003
Location: Medford MA USA
Posts: 11,293
This antiquated site will not host your pictures unless they are too small to matter. Host your picture on another site and post a link to it. Make sure the site allows public viewing, and that you set the permissions for public viewing.
__________________
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 10-23-2020, 12:43 PM
ridenrace6 ridenrace6 is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: May 22, 2020
Location: Alabama
Posts: 10
a little update

thanks to jeep recyclers i now have the spacer plate and matching dust cover and inspection plate for the 74-79 turbo 400.

i ordered few other things along the way, all of which ive already received.

new pioneer flexplate from oreilleys for the 74-79, pilot bushing from novak, new rubber trans mount, new dana 20 twin stick kit, and a new trans to t-case gasket from bj's, new arp flexplate and converter bolts from summit, and i went to the local tractor supply for grade 8 bellhousing bolts.

i have a couple of questions tho, both relating to engine balance.

1. will the factory harmonic balancer work with the 74-79 flywheel or do i need a 74-70 balancer?

2. the small ring that goes on the flexplate where it bolts to crank is slightly differrent between the 73 down that came off the jeep and the spare 80 up engine i have in shop, so the question is wif one of these will work, which one, or do i need to get one specifically for 74-79?

Last edited by ridenrace6 : 10-24-2020 at 06:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 10-23-2020, 10:19 PM
Rod2's Avatar
Rod2 Rod2 is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Apr 11, 2004
Location: Claremont NC
Posts: 649
Wheeeee! You automatic guys are a blast. My T-18 and I just don't get it.
__________________
Rod Skaggs
'73 J4000 'WOOD GO' 360, 2100 MC, T-18, D-20, 60-2 rear, D-44 closed knuckle front with Warn Lock-O-Matics, Eaton E-lockers both, Pertronix module, AC, PS, '77 Firebird tilt column, Hydro-boost, AirLift bags front and rear, 33x15 Goodyear MTR's, Pacer 15x8 aluminum Bullet Holes, Summit line lock, 3rd brake light, MileMarker 12,000 cradle mounted winch

Last edited by Rod2 : 10-23-2020 at 10:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 10-24-2020, 06:12 PM
ridenrace6 ridenrace6 is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: May 22, 2020
Location: Alabama
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rod2
Wheeeee! You automatic guys are a blast. My T-18 and I just don't get it.
thanks, that helped a lot....
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 10-25-2020, 10:47 AM
tgreese's Avatar
tgreese tgreese is offline
 
Join Date: May 29, 2003
Location: Medford MA USA
Posts: 11,293
Quote:
Originally Posted by ridenrace6
a little update

thanks to jeep recyclers i now have the spacer plate and matching dust cover and inspection plate for the 74-79 turbo 400.

i ordered few other things along the way, all of which ive already received.

new pioneer flexplate from oreilleys for the 74-79, pilot bushing from novak, new rubber trans mount, new dana 20 twin stick kit, and a new trans to t-case gasket from bj's, new arp flexplate and converter bolts from summit, and i went to the local tractor supply for grade 8 bellhousing bolts.

i have a couple of questions tho, both relating to engine balance.

1. will the factory harmonic balancer work with the 74-79 flywheel or do i need a 74-70 balancer?
Do you mean flywheel or flexplate? The terms are not interchangeable. The 360 flywheel is different for 1971, and for 72/73. There is no change in the 360 flywheel '74-80. No info whether this reflects a change in balance due to the change in HB; probably. '71 is different because the crank flange is different, I presume.
Quote:
2. the small ring that goes on the flexplate where it bolts to crank is slightly differrent between the 73 down that came off the jeep and the spare 80 up engine i have in shop, so the question is wif one of these will work, which one, or do i need to get one specifically for 74-79?
Jeep calls that a "Spacer, ring gear flex plate to crankshaft." That too changes between '73 and '74 and is unchanged through '79 (the last of the TH400). '80 up is for the TorqueFlite transmission (A727) and undoubtedly different.
__________________
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk

Last edited by tgreese : 10-25-2020 at 10:58 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 10-25-2020, 08:34 PM
ridenrace6 ridenrace6 is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: May 22, 2020
Location: Alabama
Posts: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgreese
Do you mean flywheel or flexplate? The terms are not interchangeable. The 360 flywheel is different for 1971, and for 72/73. There is no change in the 360 flywheel '74-80. No info whether this reflects a change in balance due to the change in HB; probably. '71 is different because the crank flange is different, I presume.
Jeep calls that a "Spacer, ring gear flex plate to crankshaft." That too changes between '73 and '74 and is unchanged through '79 (the last of the TH400). '80 up is for the TorqueFlite transmission (A727) and undoubtedly different.

yes flexplate, its a auto trans, flywheel would be for a manual trans.

so your saying i need the spacer ring for a 74-79?

will i also need a harmonic balancer or are they the same thru the years?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 10-26-2020, 08:50 AM
tgreese's Avatar
tgreese tgreese is offline
 
Join Date: May 29, 2003
Location: Medford MA USA
Posts: 11,293
Change in part number only tells me that the part changed, not how it changed. In the day, Jeep would have considered two different part numbers to be incompatible, unless the parts book specifically says to substitute one number for another. Sorry, I don't have anything better for you.

This topic has been covered before. I recall there was a change from the 3-bolt to 4-bolt HB, but I don't know more than that. You could search and read old posts - that's what I'd have to do to help you further. You realize that the forum is archived specifically to help you with this kind of research? You're the one with incentive to pursue this question.

Example https://www.bing.com/search?q=site%3...+3-bolt+4-bolt Works with Google and other search engines too.
__________________
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk

Last edited by tgreese : 10-26-2020 at 09:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 10-31-2020, 08:16 PM
ridenrace6 ridenrace6 is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: May 22, 2020
Location: Alabama
Posts: 10
another update, ive got the trans and t-case bolted to the engine but have run into another roadblock.
while trying to get the crossmember in i cant seem to get the mount on the t-case to line up with any of the holes in the crossmember, does anybody know if the cross member changed from 73 to 74 up?
also as all the driveline except the engine was already out of the truck when i got it, i cant seem to locate the8 bolts that mount the crossmember to the frame, does anybody know the thread size and pitch and how long they need to be?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Buick Turbo 400 Darwin1876 General FSJ Tech 26 05-07-2016 11:56 AM
will j4000 styleside bed fit j3000 truck fully standard jeep General FSJ Discussion 2 04-23-2015 07:37 PM
Reid Racing, Inc. Official Super Hydra 400 Transmission Case The PIG Smith General FSJ Tech 8 12-15-2012 01:49 PM
85' 360-tf727 or turbo 400, and t-case questions Poley General FSJ Tech 16 01-22-2012 03:26 PM
T 400 quadra trac/ T 400 dana 20 swap bd 75 General FSJ Tech 11 01-17-2012 03:37 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner