International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > Diesel Swaps

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-11-2017, 07:55 PM
HighRide's Avatar
HighRide HighRide is offline
Noob!
 
Join Date: Sep 27, 2015
Location: Parker AZ
Posts: 15
HELPPPP F250 retro in a 67 Waggonner

OK .. Not sure if this is where i should put this if not bump it please to where it needs be. I just picked up a 84 F250 4x4 for free it runs even lol.. It has the 6.9 in it. My goal is i really want a diesel in my 67. I tow alot and some loads are big. So my question is folkd and I need help ..

1 Is it even feasible

2 has anyone ever even attempted it

3 what would be a better option

My 67 has a 455 olds in it now and I really want to pull it as I dont wanna spend a fortune just driving to the store

It has factory stock suspension as well. No clue what the trany is or trans any help ideas or suggestions would be awesome

Thanks
__________________
FSJ year looking like a 67 455 Olds
77 Sport Bronco 347 stroked
69 Baja Race bug
To many sandrails to even mention

Last edited by HighRide : 04-11-2017 at 08:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-11-2017, 08:53 PM
EKWagoneer's Avatar
EKWagoneer EKWagoneer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 01, 2016
Location: Northeast Colorado
Posts: 155
Yes, this swap would be possible. I would just worry about space. Not saying it isn't there, it would just be tight.
There is a member on here with a built 6.5 in one, but is not a stock FSJ.
A better option in my opinion would be a 4bt Cummins. Not a ginormous engine, but it can work hard. 6bt if you can fit it. (Length!)
You'll most likely need to bump up the front suspension substantially. I would recommend just going to 3/4 or 1 ton axles, but keep lift to a minimum, unless you want to lift it. Your vehicle, not mine!
Jeep Transmission:
Manual- T-18, Muncie 420/465 are good guesses, I am not sure.
Auto- GM TH400

Being a GM guy myself, I would recommend ditching the Ferd, either selling or parting out to acquire a better swap candidate. The 6.9 is an International IDI (Indirect Injected) motor, and is the precursor to the 7.3, and is pretty good. They are naturally aspirated unless a dealer put on a turbo kit.

Completely your call on all of this.

Hope this helps.
Ely
__________________
1973 Wagoneer- nearly stock, work in progress
1/2 1975 Wagoneer- rolling chassis, D44's 6" lift, 35's, work in progress
1992 Chevy Suburban 1500 Silverado, mostly stock, 396,000 miles and counting

I'm a secondhand vegetarian- cows eat grass, I eat cows.

Have A Nice Day!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-11-2017, 09:02 PM
HighRide's Avatar
HighRide HighRide is offline
Noob!
 
Join Date: Sep 27, 2015
Location: Parker AZ
Posts: 15
I have a 95 f250 thats a super work hours 244 k on it and it still keeps haulin.. I was wondering about using the running gear as well .. or maybe just doing a body swap to the f 250 frame I'm running 33's on my 250 now with no issues.

Thanks Ely for the info
__________________
FSJ year looking like a 67 455 Olds
77 Sport Bronco 347 stroked
69 Baja Race bug
To many sandrails to even mention
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-11-2017, 09:05 PM
HighRide's Avatar
HighRide HighRide is offline
Noob!
 
Join Date: Sep 27, 2015
Location: Parker AZ
Posts: 15
Oh forgot to mention I'm a fabricator . CNC plasma cutter and 4' 20 ton brake and press plus so much more lol
__________________
FSJ year looking like a 67 455 Olds
77 Sport Bronco 347 stroked
69 Baja Race bug
To many sandrails to even mention
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-11-2017, 09:08 PM
EKWagoneer's Avatar
EKWagoneer EKWagoneer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 01, 2016
Location: Northeast Colorado
Posts: 155
Fab skills will help
A body swap would be a decent option in your situation I think. I imagine you would have to shorten the frame? Just make sure to look at all the possibilities first...

Any more questions, just ask.

Ely
__________________
1973 Wagoneer- nearly stock, work in progress
1/2 1975 Wagoneer- rolling chassis, D44's 6" lift, 35's, work in progress
1992 Chevy Suburban 1500 Silverado, mostly stock, 396,000 miles and counting

I'm a secondhand vegetarian- cows eat grass, I eat cows.

Have A Nice Day!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-11-2017, 09:12 PM
HighRide's Avatar
HighRide HighRide is offline
Noob!
 
Join Date: Sep 27, 2015
Location: Parker AZ
Posts: 15
Shorten the frame deffinatly and WB might be a issue. The Fiord ( cuz i know nobody likes them ) Has a 60" inner wb and stock wagonner is 52.5" i think with offset rims and some fender flares on the rear it should fit though havent done the math yet lol

Frame width is 40' on the fiord and 38.5 on the wag so not much diff there
__________________
FSJ year looking like a 67 455 Olds
77 Sport Bronco 347 stroked
69 Baja Race bug
To many sandrails to even mention
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-11-2017, 09:41 PM
joe joe is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 28, 2000
Location: PNWet, USA
Posts: 21,655
No idea/info on the swap specifics but am a fan of the 6.9 dsl. Had an 86 250 4WD w/6.9 and loved that truck. Great motor.
__________________
joe
"Don't mind me. I'm just here for the alibi"
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-12-2017, 06:32 AM
Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81's Avatar
Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81 is offline
Cherokee Outlaw
 
Join Date: Jan 10, 2006
Location: Central Valley, CA
Posts: 6,856
Just my opinion, but while the 6.9 is a good reliable engine, it is a complete turd in the power department. I think a 4bt would fit better and out pull the 6.9 any day. Even with half the cylinders.
That said, is that F250 TTB front suspension? If so, I'd nix the frame/body swap. Is the Ford auto or manual? If your Wag has a 455 in it now the 6.9 should fit decently as they're close to the same size, dimensions wise. Then again, anything is possible for a fabricator
Good luck! And...
__________________
-Jonny B.
1979 Cherokee Golden Eagle - 4" lift, 33x12.5x15
AMC 360 - 4180, TFI, Headers, Dual Exhaust
TH400 - Shift Kit, Deep Pan, Aux Cooler
D20 - Twin Stick'd
F D44 - 3.54, Open
R D44 - 3.54, Lock'd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ristow
the best advice on the thread.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-12-2017, 05:27 PM
BA_051 BA_051 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 06, 2008
Location: Everett, Washington
Posts: 135
As EKwagoneer mentioned, the FSJ used various transmissions... Here is a link to a tech page with all the drive train info you need...
http://www.ifsja.org/tech/figures/db.html

The 6.9 is a pretty big engine. The early 7.3 is also the same footprint, just a larger bore and stroke and not the same as the direct injected 7.3 powerstroke... I put a 6.5 Optimizer with an HX35 in my 74 J10 and had to remove the heater box and blower from under the hood to allow the turbo and downpipe...

The International diesels (6.9, 7.3, 6.5 Optimizer, and 6.5 P400) all share the same injection pumps as the GM 6.2 and 6.5's and adding a turbo to a 6.9 or 7.3 will wake it up... I put an HX35 on my 6.5 and turned the pump up 3/4 turn running 20 psi and it pulled 14,000 lbs from Albuquerque to Everett (1500 miles) averaging 14 mpg (J10 in my sig)... anything less than 1500 rpm will roll coal if I stomp on it, but anything above that it will boost and just go...

If you want a lot of power, then a 6bt is the way to go... They are about 1300 lbs fully dressed but you can use the agricultural exhaust manifold with an hx35 or hx40 and it wont interfere with the heater box. A lot of fab work to get it shoehorned in (length) and a ~2" lift spring in the front will make it sit as the same stock height.

Good fuel economy, probably the best will be the 4bt. They are about 900lbs fully dressed, are a lot easier to fab in, and will tow pretty good once in a while...

The 6.9 and 7.3's are very wide diesels and are about 1000-1100 lbs dressed. Equally as durable as the 4/6bt's... I tried to fit one in my J10 originally, but it had to sit pretty high so the manifolds would clear the inner fenders... I did not want to cut them up to get it to fit... They will fit, but it will take some finesse to get it to fit width wise.

And then the GM diesels are easiest and cheapest to swap in. The International versions (same as GM but produced after 2001) dont suffer from the same issues the GM versions do. Decent power when turbo'ed and decent fuel mileage (I am averaging 17-18 mpgs). You can also get a supercharger kit for the 6.5's from bullet racing to upgrade an NA 6.5 and you wont have any fitment issues at all... I have heard they are not as durable as the other diesels, but I have sene some go as far as 750k miles...

I went the cheapest route since I didnt have a diesel at all and I got the 6.5 for a great price...
__________________
1974 Jeep J10, gladiator grill, 6.5 optimizer, head studs, HX35w@ 20psi, 4" exhaust, NV4500/Ford NP205, D60HP, 14b, 4.56's, 12" lift, 37x12.50x16.5's

Last edited by BA_051 : 04-12-2017 at 05:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-13-2017, 02:57 PM
HighRide's Avatar
HighRide HighRide is offline
Noob!
 
Join Date: Sep 27, 2015
Location: Parker AZ
Posts: 15
the tranny is a auto and yes its not the straight axle front end.. i'm thinking maybe just sell the 250 for what i can get for it look for some 3/4 ton front and rear axles and see if i can find a 6bt..

Its all up in the air now lol

PS> Heavy your right but NO pics yet still in the planing stage so its just a old wag right now lol
__________________
FSJ year looking like a 67 455 Olds
77 Sport Bronco 347 stroked
69 Baja Race bug
To many sandrails to even mention
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-14-2017, 12:46 PM
joe joe is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 28, 2000
Location: PNWet, USA
Posts: 21,655
Just reread the original post and caught the "I tow a lot" part. Regarding that part and using a 6.9 I would highly consider your current axle gear ratios. Though I really like the all around use of the 6.9 if it's geared too high, though it worked well as a daily driver, it sucked for heavy towing. Mine came with 3.55's and it was a DOG for towing. Eventually I swapped in 4.10's. Woke that old truck right up! Best mod I ever did for that 6.9 They or mine anyway, liked the 2200-2500 RPM range. Most car/small truck dsl's IMHO don't deal well with too high of gearing(lower numerically). Just something to consider in your dsl swap budget.
__________________
joe
"Don't mind me. I'm just here for the alibi"
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-16-2017, 07:13 PM
Mikel's Avatar
Mikel Mikel is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 09, 2000
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 6,020
What do you plan on towing? The engine is just one piece of the equation. Wagoneers don't have a very long wheelbase and the factory brakes are not spectacular.

What kind of MPG do you get with the 455? How's the power?
__________________
1969 M715 6x6
1963 J300 Swivel frame
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-28-2017, 12:31 PM
XJ2CJ XJ2CJ is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2015
Location: Upper Mojave
Posts: 112
I'm planning to swap my J10 onto an F250 chassis. I found a thread showing a 6.9 or 7.3 in a waggy. For the old style heater mounted in the engine bay there isn't room for it next to the engine. The solution is to use one of the modular heater units that mounts under the dash.

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=155506
__________________
1967 Gladiator J2000, 4x4, 351W, T19, D44/F8.8
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-21-2017, 11:16 AM
joe joe is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 28, 2000
Location: PNWet, USA
Posts: 21,655
Highride, any progress updates on your 6.9 into wag swap?
__________________
joe
"Don't mind me. I'm just here for the alibi"
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
F250 axles clarkkent90xj Off-Road FSJ Tech 10 04-23-2011 07:03 PM
F250 vs. F350 to haul GW FSJ-Earl General FSJ Discussion 39 11-16-2008 05:59 AM
1978 Ford F250 Axles ... How easy to swap into GW? Greg Taylor General FSJ Tech 14 01-08-2008 08:45 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner