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View Poll Results: which drive-train?
6.2/3053a 5 3.94%
6.2/nv4500 24 18.90%
6bt 76 59.84%
SBC or BBC on CNG or LPG 1 0.79%
Toroflow v-6 diesel 5 3.94%
machinist is full of stinky poo 16 12.60%
Voters: 127. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old 02-25-2009, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene 1
maybe a souped up Mercedes 300td engine or other Mercedes diesel engine??
Search it has been discussed here before
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congrats...that's the first post on here I have absolutely no effing clue how to comment on.


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  #22  
Old 02-25-2009, 09:43 AM
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Eugene 1 Eugene 1 is offline
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i have to search that, it was not for me though i was just throwing my .02 cents in
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  #23  
Old 02-25-2009, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imiceman44
some wanted up to $2000 for a take off

$2000 WTF!!!! The MV surplus place near me wants $450 for a take off and $1000 for a full rebuilt. I've heard about a place in Los Angeles that gets 200 for take offs.
The hercules multifuel in the deuces is pretty clunky, I don't know about using one of them in any thing but a medium duty truck. It'd kinda be similar to someone running a detroit 6v53, but at least the detroit cranks out massive amounts of power.

Hmmm... I wonder how an aluminum block 353 detroit would do in a jeep truck. It be loud as all hell, and kinda slow, but it should get good mileage. I know some aluminum 353's were bolted to sm420's. But with that engine you'd need an overdrive.(and earplugs)
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  #24  
Old 02-25-2009, 10:45 AM
imiceman44 imiceman44 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uglyjeep
$2000 WTF!!!! The MV surplus place near me wants $450 for a take off and $1000 for a full rebuilt. I've heard about a place in Los Angeles that gets 200 for take offs.
The hercules multifuel in the deuces is pretty clunky, I don't know about using one of them in any thing but a medium duty truck. It'd kinda be similar to someone running a detroit 6v53, but at least the detroit cranks out massive amounts of power.

Hmmm... I wonder how an aluminum block 353 detroit would do in a jeep truck. It be loud as all hell, and kinda slow, but it should get good mileage. I know some aluminum 353's were bolted to sm420's. But with that engine you'd need an overdrive.(and earplugs)

I guess the guys down south are not too greedy, up here they are.
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  #25  
Old 02-25-2009, 06:41 PM
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Detroit 3/53 in a CJ7
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=709193

Isuzu in a YJ
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=644588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambler68
congrats...that's the first post on here I have absolutely no effing clue how to comment on.


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  #26  
Old 02-26-2009, 12:55 PM
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**** that 353 is sweet! Here he is pulling a chevy up a muddy hill http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXoZRe9cuZA !

Today I'm heading over to look at a 75 cherokee, and if I could only convince my dad to let me pull the 353 from his gama goat (m-561)...

I wonder if a 6V53 is to wide/heavy to fit?

Man would it be cool to have a screamin' demon under the hood of an fsj.
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  #27  
Old 02-26-2009, 02:17 PM
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When I worked as a fueler at the truck stop the joke was you could tell when a driver had a Detroit, he would get out and say " check the fuel and fill it up with oil".
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambler68
congrats...that's the first post on here I have absolutely no effing clue how to comment on.


How you behave toward cats here below determines your status in Heaven.
Robert A. Heinlein
The birth of CROM is recorded here
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  #28  
Old 02-26-2009, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigun
check the fuel and fill it up with oil
Sounds about right. The 353 in my dads 'goat over the years has left a thick greasy oily mess in the sealed-bottom engine compartment.
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  #29  
Old 02-26-2009, 05:31 PM
imiceman44 imiceman44 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uglyjeep
Sounds about right. The 353 in my dads 'goat over the years has left a thick greasy oily mess in the sealed-bottom engine compartment.

Is the 353 the size of the engine in cubes or is it a 3 cylinder 5.3 liters?
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  #30  
Old 02-26-2009, 05:48 PM
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The PIG Smith The PIG Smith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imiceman44
Is the 353 the size of the engine in cubes or is it a 3 cylinder 5.3 liters?
353 = 3 cylinders X 53 cid = 159 cid total displacement

The Detroit Diesels of the 353 style are two stroke engines.
They are very loud, very noisy and can be smoky.
I cannot overstress the noise level.
While two stroke Detroit Diesels were very popular, they have not been produced in several years.
While parts maybe hard to find, especially for these smaller units, they share the some of the same parts as their bigger brothers.
For example: A cylinder head for a 6V53 (V6) will fit on a 353 (I3)
A cylinder head for a monster 8V71 (V8) will fit on a 471 (I4)
Pistons from one 53 series engine will fit on any 53 series engines.
So, lots of parts are interchangeable.

Anyway, back on topic: For a Diesel powerplant in a FSJ, a GM 6.2/6.5 or Cummins 4BT/6BT are the best ways to go.
Sure, with enough time and $$$, you can make anything work, but the afore mentioned with produce good results and there are plenty of folks to ask for help.
If you would choose a Diesel engine from a John Deere cornbinder and then when you get into a bind and need help,
there will be few that would be able to offer assistance.
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Last edited by The PIG Smith : 02-26-2009 at 07:42 PM.
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  #31  
Old 02-26-2009, 06:10 PM
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I will agree the 4bta is a great size for swapping into our FSJ's. in order of how i would look at my options.

1. First choice is the 4bta. the extra price is worth the saved headaches.

2. a isuzu 4BD1T/2T is a great little motor can be had fairly cheap is modeled after the cummis 4bta definately worth looking at as another option. nice thing with it is the turbo would be on the driverside vs the passenger side so exhaust routine would be easier with a passengerside front drive axle & T-case. mileage numbers are similar to the 4bta. power can be turned up to a certain extent.

3. The 6.2/6.5 would be my next choice hard to beat for the price, availability and versatility

4. Next id look at a chevy 350, 5.3 or 6.0 conversion the fuel injecitona nd Od would be a valuable improvement for mileage if thats what you are after.


5. the 6bta or a 6bt would work but it is more of a shoe horn job. it would be the last choce on my list of what to ever do again. been there done that. dont think id go that route again in a fsj. Its like trying to stick a 6.9 or 7.3 ford diesel into one its just big heavy and long taking up the engine compartment fully and really pushing the workable space when maitnance becomes necessary. the 6bta rear valve covers are a pain to get off in most conversions without serious massaging of the firewall and the engine weight was so far forward due to the jeep firewall being as far forward as it is that 3 of the 6 cylinders were forward of the front axle at 1200 lbs thats alot of front axle weight creating leveage vs riding over or behind the axle.

You could do a Detroit they are fun, can be turned up and have a sound all to themselves


check out my build up if you want some pictures on the 4bt. around $1500-2000 for a 4bt is going rate. the 6.2 carries with it some other barriers. replacing & removing the heater. i chose the 4bta because of its compact size and easy serviceability. a V8 engine widens things out and i wanted an air to air cooler also. a 6.2 can easily produce 180-200 hp/ 350-375 ft/lbs torque especially with a turbo added on 400ft/lbs is possible making 18-21 mpg and around town 16-18. my 4bt i added injectors (40hp) for $300, and a HY35/9 turbo for another $400 (that includes oil return line, and new exhaust manifold) and i fully expect on the dyno some rear wheel numbers around 180-200hp and 415-450 ft/lbs with a mileage 25-26 empty and around 19-20 in town

remember fuel tank lines ect need to be addressed also and you'll need a 6.5 or 6.2 iwth the vacum pump to run your vent actuators
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  #32  
Old 02-26-2009, 06:38 PM
tgreening tgreening is offline
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Am I going crazy or did about a half doz. posts just disappear from this thread?
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  #33  
Old 02-26-2009, 08:22 PM
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COLOFIREMAN COLOFIREMAN is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigun
When I worked as a fueler at the truck stop the joke was you could tell when a driver had a Detroit, he would get out and say " check the fuel and fill it up with oil".

Was it the in Cameo by the mine was it???

I drove a 8 wheel Hemmit with a V8 Detroit turboed force feeding a super charger. Very loud, after a 8-hour road march.
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  #34  
Old 02-26-2009, 11:00 PM
imiceman44 imiceman44 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The PIG Smith
353 = 3 cylinders X 53 cid = 159 cid total displacement

The Detroit Diesels of the 353 style are two stroke engines.
They are very loud, very noisy and can be smoky.
I cannot overstress the noise level.
While two stroke Detroit Diesels were very popular, they have not been produced in several years.
While parts maybe hard to find, especially for these smaller units, they share the some of the same parts as their bigger brothers.
For example: A cylinder head for a 6V53 (V6) will fit on a 353 (I3)
A cylinder head for a monster 8V71 (V8) will fit on a 471 (I4)
Pistons from one 53 series engine will fit on any 53 series engines.
So, lots of parts are interchangeable.

Anyway, back on topic: For a Diesel powerplant in a FSJ, a GM 6.2/6.5 or Cummins 4BT/6BT are the best ways to go.
Sure, with enough time and $$$, you can make anything work, but the afore mentioned with produce good results and there are plenty of folks to ask for help.
If you would choose a Diesel engine from a John Deere cornbinder and then when you get into a bind and need help,
there will be few that would be able to offer assistance.

Should have known, same as CAT numbering and all the bigger detroits you mentionned.
And yeah I know they are 2 stroke and noisy, they also have a supercharger to run and you can add a turbo to make them more powerfull.

By the way I know what you mean by the cornbinder example:
I have a Perkins turbo diesel I took off my K5 after it fell appart, it's a great engine and is the cousing of the cummins at 354 cu inches I6
410lbs tq and 175 hp
It's just that no one knows them, no one has parts for them so I am on my own.

At least I got it in my K5 already mated to a SM465 and had all accessories needed.
It should fit in a FSJ but I am thinking of putting it in a M715
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  #35  
Old 02-26-2009, 11:08 PM
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bigun bigun is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COLOFIREMAN
Was it the in Cameo by the mine was it???

I drove a 8 wheel Hemmit with a V8 Detroit turboed force feeding a super charger. Very loud, after a 8-hour road march.
The old 76 truck stop in Alb. NM. I did several jobs there fueler, maintenance, truck wash, tires, oil changes, known to have booze for sale and could tell you how to get a hold of the lot lizards
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambler68
congrats...that's the first post on here I have absolutely no effing clue how to comment on.


How you behave toward cats here below determines your status in Heaven.
Robert A. Heinlein
The birth of CROM is recorded here
http://www.alaska4x4network.com/showthread.php?t=7778
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  #36  
Old 02-27-2009, 09:26 AM
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dusty dusty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imiceman44
Should have known, same as CAT numbering and all the bigger detroits you mentionned.
And yeah I know they are 2 stroke and noisy, they also have a supercharger to run and you can add a turbo to make them more powerfull.

By the way I know what you mean by the cornbinder example:
I have a Perkins turbo diesel I took off my K5 after it fell appart, it's a great engine and is the cousing of the cummins at 354 cu inches I6
410lbs tq and 175 hp
It's just that no one knows them, no one has parts for them so I am on my own.

At least I got it in my K5 already mated to a SM465 and had all accessories needed.
It should fit in a FSJ but I am thinking of putting it in a M715


there is nothing wrong with a perkins. they don't take mods as well less head bolts if i remember correctly than the cummins but other than that they are a great engine. I would put one in if i could find a variable govenor turbo charged version for a reasonable price
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  #37  
Old 02-27-2009, 11:05 AM
imiceman44 imiceman44 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dusty
there is nothing wrong with a perkins. they don't take mods as well less head bolts if i remember correctly than the cummins but other than that they are a great engine. I would put one in if i could find a variable govenor turbo charged version for a reasonable price

When I bought my K5 for $1300 it had this engine in it and all the reciepts in it and the guy paid $3000 for the engine, $3000 for the installation, then a few months later $3000 for a rebuild of the engine and the injection system.
Now it feels like the injectors could use a rebuild but otherwise the engine is great, no electric except for the starter.
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  #38  
Old 02-27-2009, 05:39 PM
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If GM doesn't fold, their new V8 diesel should start showing up in the occasional wreck next year. Won't be inexpensive, but I do believe it's destined to become the "smallblock" of the diesel world. 310 hp/500+ ft lbs.

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  #39  
Old 02-27-2009, 10:08 PM
imiceman44 imiceman44 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Towtruck
If GM doesn't fold, their new V8 diesel should start showing up in the occasional wreck next year. Won't be inexpensive, but I do believe it's destined to become the "smallblock" of the diesel world. 310 hp/500+ ft lbs.


Yeah I've been following that one for a while, and will be for a few years to come since I will not be able to buy one even in a wreck.
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  #40  
Old 02-27-2009, 11:27 PM
tgreening tgreening is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Towtruck
If GM doesn't fold, their new V8 diesel should start showing up in the occasional wreck next year. Won't be inexpensive, but I do believe it's destined to become the "smallblock" of the diesel world. 310 hp/500+ ft lbs.


I doubt GM will fold in the sense they disappear. They may indeed go bankrupt which means a whole bunch of little guy suppliers (and probably some bigger guy too) will get the shaft and be left to fend for themselves, but GM will go on in some fashion. A bankruptcy will insure a number of things.

1) Bank interests are protected
2) The law firms involved get paid
3) The business gets to go on if at all possible.
4) Everybody else gets the shaft.

I've been that little guy on more than one occasion.

I really doubt the feds will let the domestic auto industry completely collapse and disappear.

Looks like an pretty awesome diesel package though.
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78 J10, 360, Q/T, auto. Sacrificial lamb.
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