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  #1  
Old 06-24-2019, 04:38 PM
nomad350z nomad350z is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Jun 11, 2019
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 4
stock torque converter replacement

Hello all,

New to IFSJA with a recently purchased 1987 Grand Wagoneer. Purchased it disassembled with the transmission and transfer case removed, and am attempting to reassemble the pieces (and make sure the pieces I have work).

Long story short, the previous transmission imploded causing the purchase of another transmission from a local U-Pull by the PO. I have been told it came from another '87 GW, and unit has part number 'PK5359402' which is a 727, but of unknown origin (the AMC units aren't as well documented as the MOPAR ones). So I have a transmission from another vehicle, and the original transmission and torque converter are gone.

I purchased a new TC for the vehicle, but it came with an integrated starter ring gear on the TC. My 360 has a balanced flexplate with its own starter ring gear, so the TC I recieved is not correct. The one I purchased is for a non-lockup application, is 11" in diameter, has a 10" bolt center for 4 bolts, slotted hub and 24 splines on the input shaft. The unit would not fully seat on the transmission, would only engage one 'click' of the required 3.

After some searching here, it appears the CR54H is the correct unit (11" OD, 10" bolt center, non-lockup, 24 splines, 'high' stall). Most of these parameters are identical to what I already recieved - what were the differences between the torque converters/transmissions? What Grand Wagoneers used a starter ring on the torque converter, and how did they differ from the CR54H units?

Thanks for you help.

*Edit: The forum does not like posts from iPads apparently, it kept cutting off my initial post - hence the edit.

Last edited by nomad350z : 06-24-2019 at 04:51 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-25-2019, 08:55 AM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 20, 2006
Location: The Great Googley Moogley Midwest.
Posts: 16,969
no FSJ's used the ring gear on the converter. those are chrysler applications you are looking at. the converters are the same except AMC knocks the ring gear off and does not use the converter itself to balance the motor.


you neefd a torque command transmission,which will have a AMC patterned bell housing. a chrysler torque flite will not bolt up.
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  #3  
Old 06-25-2019, 09:36 AM
nomad350z nomad350z is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Jun 11, 2019
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 4
Thank you for the input. I'm still a bit confused though; if the TC I purchased (with the ring gear) is identical to the CR54H, why didn't it fully seat? As previously mentioned, it only engaged once, but still spun freely (was not held up by the ring-gear fitting inside of the bellhousing). I'd like to clarify before procuring another TC.

Thanks again.

*Edit: The forum still doesn't like responses posted from iOS devices.

Last edited by nomad350z : 06-25-2019 at 06:54 PM.
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  #4  
Old 06-25-2019, 06:56 PM
nomad350z nomad350z is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Jun 11, 2019
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 4
bump for the edit
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  #5  
Old 06-26-2019, 05:26 PM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 20, 2006
Location: The Great Googley Moogley Midwest.
Posts: 16,969
They spin freely when fully seated.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hankrod
Ristows right.................again,




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!


→ Where the kids hang out...

fsjbuilder.org come for the mindless chat,stay for the hand drawn emoticons.

It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...
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  #6  
Old 06-26-2019, 07:14 PM
nomad350z nomad350z is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Jun 11, 2019
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 4
Yes, I understand it will spin freely when fully seated - however this one would not fully seat (it only dropped in once, of the 3 times it should). It was still protruding outward from the mating face of the bellhousing by ~0.5", which would result in interference with the flexplate. From a previous post on here, a member indicated it should be recessed ~0.5" when properly seated.

So, my question is, what are the differences between the chrysler torque converter (which I unfortunately purchased) and the AMC torque converter (which apparently are both 11" OD, have 5.5" overall height, 4 bolts to flywheel on 10" centers, a 1.810" pilot bearing outer diameter, and are 24 spline for non-lockup applications, aside from the ring gear?

If the only difference is the ring gear, what else would prevent mine from seating? As mentioned, it spun freely (and was obviously not interfering with the ring gear - the only identified difference so far), so what else would prevent it from seating, if indeed the torque converters are identical? Are there other nuanced differences, such as the slotted hub outer diameter causing interference with the input shaft seal, or changes in diameter of the splined shafts (despite having the same spline count)? Could there be a defect in the transmission that I haven't noticed? Perhaps the 727 I have used a different torque converter, which had a different hub OD and smaller input shaft seal ID, which is now causing interference? Just looking and explanation to clarify why the one I purchased didn't fit - if indeed they are identical as previously mentioned.

Before questioning the application of the transmission, it is indeed for an AMC application (as the PO stated), since it bolts to the 360 in the GW.

I really don't want to go through the effort of purchasing a CR54H only to find it also doesn't fit, and the transmission I have has an unobtainable torque converter.
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  #7  
Old 06-27-2019, 07:30 AM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 20, 2006
Location: The Great Googley Moogley Midwest.
Posts: 16,969
maybe you had a lockup converter an non lock up tranny. or it just hadn't aligned with the pump to seat yet.



the converters are the same minus the ring gear. lock up and non lock up converters have different spline counts and input shafts.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hankrod
Ristows right.................again,




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!


→ Where the kids hang out...

fsjbuilder.org come for the mindless chat,stay for the hand drawn emoticons.

It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...
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