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View Poll Results: Which manufacturers Diesel should I go with?? See the thread below before answering
Ford Diesel Engine 4 3.54%
GM Diesel Engine 10 8.85%
Dodge/Cummins Diesel 85 75.22%
Other/Foreign 14 12.39%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old 08-16-2009, 02:37 PM
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BGW BGW is offline
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Pardon my asking, but how come practically no one here seems to like Ford diesels? Do they not fit well, or do the people here just really hate Ford?

Why not Detroit? That would be my dream combo. I think weight is a huge deal there, though. I don't think they make many smaller diesels. The wonderful diesel scream those fuel pinchers let out make the other issues with that series seem less important. Those are my favorite diesels, sound-wise.
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  #42  
Old 08-16-2009, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGW
Pardon my asking, but how come practically no one here seems to like Ford diesels?


From what I've seen most fords, except the 6.9, have a lot of running problems. And all fo them are very under powered for the size, plus all of them eat glow plugs and relays for lunch. The 7.3 IDI tow truck we have here is always down for one reason of another.... This is the main reason why people with Powerstokes are "destokeing" them.... www.destroked.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by BGW
Why not Detroit? That would be my dream combo. I think weight is a huge deal there, though. I don't think they make many smaller diesels. The wonderful diesel scream those fuel pinchers let out make the other issues with that series seem less important. Those are my favorite diesels, sound-wise.

Yes but to make a Detriot work one must rap it up where as a Cummins, Isuzu, or John Deere, all gte there torque at the low end. I agree a good running Detriot sound great climbing a hill..
VIDEO 1

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  #43  
Old 08-16-2009, 03:51 PM
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BGW BGW is offline
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Thanks for clearing things up for me! That is a sweet truck. I have personally had good experiences with the Ford diesels, that's why I was wondering.


Another Detroit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7qgDauSjhk
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  #44  
Old 08-16-2009, 04:00 PM
1-tonmudder 1-tonmudder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COLOFIREMAN
From what I've seen most fords, except the 6.9, have a lot of running problems. And all fo them are very under powered for the size, plus all of them eat glow plugs and relays for lunch. The 7.3 IDI tow truck we have here is always down for one reason of another.... This is the main reason why people with Powerstokes are "destokeing" them.... www.destroked.com

The 6.9's and the non powerstroke 7.3's are pretty weak but not as bad as a GM 6.2 or 6.5.One of the main reasons everybody is "destroking" is that the cummins engines are cheaper and easier to find when it comes time for an engine.Dodge cant build a truck that will last as long as the engine does.A 150K mile cummins around here can be had for $1000-$1200 and a equal miled psd will be $1800-$2200 or more

For conversons the cummins 4&6BT's are the way to go hands down due to their simplicity.I see people making jokes about the powerstrokes but mine has 370K on it and has been a very good engine.They just have more electronics on them which makes a conversion usin them almost impossible.

I wouldnt waste my time or money trying to use a 6.2 or 6.5 GM diesel.

Disclaimer-I am not talking about the newer 6.0's and 6.4's Power strokes as they have lot's of problems.I am only talking about the 7.3 Power Strokes.
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  #45  
Old 08-16-2009, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-tonmudder
Dodge cant build a truck that will last as long as the engine does.

Yay! Someone here shares my opinion!
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  #46  
Old 08-16-2009, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGW
Yay! Someone here shares my opinion!


Well I agree with you two as well!! If Ford was to ever pair with CAT, now that would be a mean truck!!!
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  #47  
Old 08-16-2009, 09:45 PM
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IMHO DEFFINITELY THE CUMMINS
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  #48  
Old 08-16-2009, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAHoyle
Minor correction here.
Most Cummins 4BT do not come with a GM bolt pattern.
The Cummins uses a Bellhousing adapter which goes between the engine and bellhousing, and there are many many versions available.

GM
Ford small block pattern
at least 2 Dodge Patterns

Yes I know that cummins has there own bolt pattern.
I've seen 4bt in ford vans, but the most common trans I've ever seen bolted to them is a TH400 every time I run into one it's bolt to a TH400 out of an old chevy box van or has nothing bolted to it and it's attach to a generator
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  #49  
Old 08-17-2009, 07:22 AM
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Keep in mind that if you use a 4L80E you will need to use the transfer case that comes with it or have an adapter made to use the transfer case you want. I have been unable to find one ready-made.
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  #50  
Old 08-17-2009, 07:46 AM
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Eugene 1 Eugene 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COLOFIREMAN
Well I agree with you two as well!! If Ford was to ever pair with CAT, now that would be a mean truck!!!

my dodge truck runs just fine and makes more power than most of the "other" 360s
abd you still see lot of them on the road (Cummins) 1st gen as well as 2nd.
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  #51  
Old 08-20-2009, 10:27 AM
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4bt's and 6bt's

These are pretty sick. Thinking about doing it down the road. Lots of guys are talking about them being hard to find or expensive. Not really. Govliquidations.com. The military "la""la""la""la""la"cans tow tractors all the time to DERMO and most of them have these in them. Most are for sale for $150.00- You pick up. Check it out...
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  #52  
Old 08-20-2009, 04:32 PM
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The question was I have a 4L80E and without spending too much money, what diesel can I adopt?

Without spending too much money.
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  #53  
Old 09-03-2009, 07:33 AM
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I've had Ford guys tell me their next truck will have a cummins.
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  #54  
Old 01-31-2010, 12:43 PM
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A 4L80E will bolt up to a GM Detroit 6.2/6.5L. The problem is that no one makes a T/C adapter for the 4L80. You would have to get a machinist to help you there or use a T/C from a Chev-GMC truck.

Ooops, sorry, I'm typing, not reading.
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Quote:
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Actually, now that I think about it, that could be either awesome or really terrible.


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  #55  
Old 01-31-2010, 12:47 PM
EnigmaticEngineer EnigmaticEngineer is offline
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I know I'm bumping an old thread, but...

I am personally going to be doing a diesel swap in the near future so I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.

One person in this thread mentioned One little thing that it seems no one else thought to mention, Mercedes.

Mercedes came out with a Wonderful diesel engine called the OM617 in the late 70's and they are known for going well over 500,000 miles (saw a video of a Mercedes with 770,xxx and it still fired up like the day it was new) and supposedly had No major work done, just basic routine maintainence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OM617 Wikipedia Article

I love the Cummins Engines, and I know many have swapped 4bt's and 6bt's into Waggys, cherokees, CJ's, YJ's, etc so don't get me wrong...

But I did a lot of research and put a ton of thought into this before I decided to go with the OM617 Mercedes Turbo Diesel.

3 Liters. 5 Cylinders. No Computers. Around 100hp and around 180ft lbs (the Pump and Boost can be 'turned up' a notch to make over 200ft lbs and Diesels do it at Low Rpm so its perfect for having power on the trail when you need it, IMHO)

For me, a MAJOR deciding factor was that Some of the Mercedes that carry this engine Get over 35mpg and weigh close to 4000 pounds...Our Waggy's are a bit heaver than that, but I still think I can get close to 30mpg when my swap is done.

You can purchase a good running Complete Mercedes 300D (whole car) with everything you'd need for a swap (Transmission, shift linkages/clutch pedal/etc) for less than you can typically purchase a 4bt or 6bt Engine alone.

I am choosing to run a divorced transfercase (NP 205) off of the stock Mercedes Transmission (Preferably a 5 speed in my case, but will work with an OD automatic if thats what comes my way)

Plenty of power, not overweight (compared to the Cummins equipment) and Awesome mileage...plus the possibilities to run it on WVO, Bio, Commercial Diesel, or Even Propane.

Personally, I am not a fan of Ford/Chevy Diesels. I agree with a previous poster that in basically stock trim, they are underpowered and overweight with too many little problems for me to want to mess with. (Fords and Glow Plug problems I have personally experienced in 2 different situations and older chevys wouldn't pull a sick kid off a toilet)

So...if I was in your boat of wanting to do a diesel swap, I would trade the Transmission you have for a divorced transfercase and find a Mercedes 300D to take the powertrain from and slip it in.

I think for me it is going to be a virtually painless engine swap (motor mounts, transmission crossmember, hang a divorced transfercase and have drivelines made). Ive done a few swaps in my life so far and This one should be much easier than the BBC502 in an S-10 I did about 4 years ago.

Just my opinions, when I discoverd the om617 it was literally love at first sight and I'm VERY impressed with their reliability.

Nathan.
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  #56  
Old 01-31-2010, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EnigmaticEngineer
I am personally going to be doing a diesel swap in the near future so I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in.

One person in this thread mentioned One little thing that it seems no one else thought to mention, Mercedes.Nathan.
The300d will barely move a 3600lb 123 series body let alone a half ton heavier FSJ.
Good motors but not enough for a FSJ unless you don't have freeway on ramps where you live.
The MB dsl motor you want is the inline 5 cyl from an early Sprinter Van or the later used V6 dsl but who can afford that just to save a few mpgs?
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  #57  
Old 01-31-2010, 08:06 PM
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I've driven a Mercedes 300d. It belonged to my great grandpa, and he bought it new. Because he was very old he drove it very little, so it has low mileage. It now belongs to my uncle (who builds diesel rockcrawlers for a living - so maintanence is not an issue).

That thing is slow!

The '82 Chevy c3500 flatbed that my 6.2 came from is a race car by comparison . Yes the Mercedes is an auto and the Chevy a manual - but that Mercedes is still a snail (but it does gets close to 40mpg...).
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  #58  
Old 02-01-2010, 02:15 AM
EnigmaticEngineer EnigmaticEngineer is offline
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I wouldn't call them Slow...

I have recently driven multiple in my search for a low mileage 300D. I personally wouldn't describe what I experienced as Slow...Certainly not Fast by Any measure, but not slow...0-60 times are just over 12 seconds with your foot in it. I personally don't consider that Slow for 3600 pounds and close to 40mpg.

One reason the car feels slow is one of the most common rear gear ratio's for a 300D is around 2.8 to 1 (2.65 to 3.07 depending on year and model) with a top speed around 110mph...torque multiplication helps acceleration significantly and the 300D's were certainly set up for economical daily driving, not to be a 'fast' car. It takes a LOT of torque to make Any vehicle with gearing around the 3.0's to feel Fast (as its not being Multiplied by as much a factor before it is delivered to the wheels...)

If you are running 33's or 35's and say, 4.11 gears, the 4 speed auto behind an OM617 will still deliver highway speeds and close to or over 30mpg in a Waggy (a 5 speed manual would be better still). Personally, I'm not looking to drag race a lifted, larger tire'd vehicle or cruise at 95mph. I'll take out the S-10 if I want to haul booty (at Speedworld Raceway in Surprise, Az. usually...was a BBC, now a 406SBC)

Another point, it is easy to have the pump squirt more go juice and have the turbo stuff it all in a little harder and significantly increase power output without sacrificing reliability under normal operating conditions. The AMG version cranked out some SERIOUS power (over 400hp)

Sorry to rant, but even looking at the OM617 swaps on Youtube clearly show that you can move a 4000+lb vehicle pretty well...

The fact is, with out purchasing anything aftermarket, it would be simple to make more torque than Any V6 or I6 that was ever installed in Any Wagoneer from the factory...(more boost, more fuel) If you consider the AMC 4.2 (approx 240ft lbs) engine a slow, inferior power plant then we are in agreement, it would be Slow.

A larger turbo + injection pump work (swap the elements for the larger versions offered and again, turn up the full load fuel delivery) and make similar or more torque compared to any stock V8 that came in any Wagoneer (over 400ftlbs) at the cost of efficiency... which is Not what I am looking to do, personally, but could be done none the less.

I certainly respect your opinions on the matter, I just happen to disagree. Check out youtube, some pretty nice OM617 swaps and even some 0-60 runs.

I hope this post is not taken the wrong way, I am not trying to ruffle feathers, but I am Confident in my decision to swap in a Turbocharged OM617. It will easily generate around 250ft lbs (or more on demand for short time use by using a boost controller as opposed to its current setup for limiting boost pressures) and adjusting the amount of fuel it delivers when boosted to those levels. They make 180ftlbs at 2400rpm Stock, limited to approx 8psi from the factory (most people seem to measure them waste gating around 7psi factory)

One more detail i checked on was that it weighs virtually the Same as a Built 401 (technically a few pounds less with a Claimed weight of 565 and the 401 tipping the scales with a claimed 601)

If you cruise Diesel forums, you will find Many Scouts, Cherokees, Comanche Trucks, Full size blazers, full size trucks, too many to list, that have OM617's that are 'turned up' and make well over 200ftlbs with only 12psi...the stock turbos will go up to around 18 or so I've read, though I never like to push equipment to its Actual limits.

Do consider that 4bt's only make 215ftlbs stock....and that is a Very popular FSJ swap...(and thats the highest Stock torque number I saw, many versions of the 4bt make less than 200ftlbs from the factory)

I can have an acceptable mileage Full running 300TD complete car for 2k or less and have every last little part (other than bits of steel for remaking brackets/crossmembers/motormounts/etc) to do the swap.

Again, sorry to rant...I feel I've done my homework and there are still many other reasons I find this engine handy (Max engine rpm is Significantly higher than the 4bt for getting the tires spinning in the mud, for another). I see this engine as a Lighter Weight Equally Powered Equally Reliable Much Cheaper 4bt.
Nathan

P.S. Absolutely NO disrespect meant to the posters (and non posters) who disagree with me and to be clear, I LOVE the 4bt and 6bt engines for many reasons, I'm just in love with the overall package the OM617 delivers for a fraction of the 4bt cost (at market value, special awesome deals excluded from that statement )

Last edited by EnigmaticEngineer : 02-01-2010 at 02:30 AM.
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  #59  
Old 02-01-2010, 08:37 AM
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My vote Cummins diesel !

Check this out:
http://www.oramagazine.com/archive/2...-finesse-2.asp

Mike
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  #60  
Old 02-01-2010, 05:51 PM
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I had a MB 300D. It was the "Worlds Fastest Tractor"
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