D60FF vs 14FF worth swapping?

[Blake]

The pinion support is a huge bonus in my eyes. Plus the fact that you don't need to measure spindles to see if there is enough material to bore them out for 35 spline shafts. Setting up gears in a 14B is much easier than a D60 as well. If you want to shave it, you can just take a sawzall to the lower chunk and gain some clearance that way. Ballistic also makes a kit where you can shave even more off and they will even turn a R+P set for you.

X2

[rockjeep44]

It's stronger because it has a pinion support bearing? Come on man. The 14-bolt is stronger for a lot more notable reasons than just that. Huge 10.5-inch ring gear, heavy housing, giant 1.69-inch full-floating shafts...

The Dana 60 it's being compared to has a much smaller 9.75-inch ring gear and typically 1.31-inch shafts. Saying the 14-bolt is stronger because of the extra nose bearing is like saying the NASA space shuttle is more advanced than the Apple iPod because it has tires.

The reason it has a pinion nose bearing is because the separation between the two main pinion bearings is less than ideal. The 14-bolt needs that nose bearing to properly support the pinion gear and keep it from deflecting under load. Dana 60s, 70s, and 80s don't have or need that nose bearing because the separation of the pinion bearings is a greater distance. I mean yeah the nose bearing is a great design and all but that's not what makes the 14-bolt strong. In a way it's a band aid for not enough pinion bearing separation. And arguably that design is not really needed for most Jeeps. It's built that way to control deflection during extremely high torque loads like towing. Sure a lifted Jeep with big tires sees some torque loading but nothing like that. Ultimately the 14-bolt is stronger because of much more notable reasons than the extra pinion bearing. All of it's parts are freaking big and made with a lot of steel.

I'm sorry, I have to chime in when I read this kind of post. First, show me a 14 bolt with 1.69" full floating shafts. I won't be holding my breath. Second, the pinion support bearing in 14 bolts is one of their biggest selling points IMO and I don't even care for 14 bolts. It does a great job of limiting gear deflection when kills gears. In high HP big tire applications this is crucial and why you see the 14 bolt starting to be even more popular in front applications because guys around my neck of the woods are eating R&Ps for breakfast in their D60s.

All that being said, I run a HP60 front and LP60 rear. My 60 rear has 3.5" 3/8" wall diameter axle tubes, factory dual piston disc brakes, Dana 70 spindles so you can run 35 spline 1.5" shafts with no fuss, and a completely smooth high clearance bottom. Here's a picture of the bottom.



This is all factory OEM and pulled from a junkyard. Show me a 14 bolt like that. If I ever eat a R&P which I'm sure I will I'll be upgrading to the Jana 76 kit which allows me to run 10.5" Dana 70 gears for ultimate strength.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=946421&highlight=

[Headhoncho]

All that being said, I run a HP60 front and LP60 rear. My 60 rear has 3.5" 3/8" wall diameter axle tubes, factory dual piston disc brakes, Dana 70 spindles so you can run 35 spline 1.5" shafts with no fuss, and a completely smooth high clearance bottom. Here's a picture of the bottom.

This is all factory OEM and pulled from a junkyard. Show me a 14 bolt like that. If I ever eat a R&P which I'm sure I will I'll be upgrading to the Jana 76 kit which allows me to run 10.5" Dana 70 gears for ultimate strength.

What vehicle do you find these in? Very curious.


JR

[bearfacedkiller]

I wasn't saying that the pinion bearing is the only thing that makes it stronger. I was just pointing out something that was not mentioned already. It is obviously stronger for many reasons. It is also alot cheaper. There is no right answer to this question. If there was we would all be running the same axle and I wouldn't see posts just like this all over the internet. They both have their advantages and disadvantages. If money was no object I would have a trussed 60 in the back with 1.5 alloy shafts but my 14 bolt was alot cheaper than that. You can definately build a 60 as strong as you want it.

As always, money is my only obstacle.

[jeeping1974]

What vehicle do you find these in? Very curious.


JR

Ford full size vans - E350 I believe. It's basically a D60 center section and D70 tubes out.

[rockjeep44]

What vehicle do you find these in? Very curious.


JR

This is a guesstimate but 90s models E250/350 Van's. I want to say '94 - '99. It is easy to mistake the axle for a 70.

[Twinpinion]

I'm sorry, I have to chime in when I read this kind of post. First, show me a 14 bolt with 1.69" full floating shafts. I won't be holding my breath. Second, the pinion support bearing in 14 bolts is one of their biggest selling points IMO and I don't even care for 14 bolts. It does a great job of limiting gear deflection when kills gears. In high HP big tire applications this is crucial and why you see the 14 bolt starting to be even more popular in front applications because guys around my neck of the woods are eating R&Ps for breakfast in their D60s.

All that being said, I run a HP60 front and LP60 rear. My 60 rear has 3.5" 3/8" wall diameter axle tubes, factory dual piston disc brakes, Dana 70 spindles so you can run 35 spline 1.5" shafts with no fuss, and a completely smooth high clearance bottom. Here's a picture of the bottom.

This is all factory OEM and pulled from a junkyard. Show me a 14 bolt like that. If I ever eat a R&P which I'm sure I will I'll be upgrading to the Jana 76 kit which allows me to run 10.5" Dana 70 gears for ultimate strength.

Sorry, meant 1.59-inch shafts.

Personally, like I already mentioned, I like Dana axles better but I can't deny the 14-bolts strength per dollar, ease of use and rebuilding, and versatility. Heck, the thing is so robust that people can hack up and change the structural integrity of the cast centersection and the gears still hold up in an abused 4x4. For most of the 4x4s that you see them on, the 14-bolt is just plain overkill (and heavy). But it's cheap so people use it. I get it.


But as far as your Danas go, if you start busting gears in your rear low-pinion 60 you'll likely be better off stepping into a Dana 80 since the pinion shaft diameter on the 60 is similar to a Dana 70. I've seen someone make that mistake, swap from a 60 after snapping the pinion to a 70 and then having the same failure. Just givin' a small bit of info if you can use it.

[rockjeep44]

Sorry, meant 1.59-inch shafts.

[facepalm] Umm, try again. [/facepalm]

But as far as your Danas go, if you start busting gears in your rear low-pinion 60 you'll likely be better off stepping into a Dana 80 since the pinion shaft diameter on the 60 is the same as a Dana 70. I've seen someone make that mistake, swap from a 60 after snapping the pinion to a 70 and then having the same failure. Just givin' a small bit of info if you can use it.

I said people were killing gear sets due to gear deflection. This has nothing to do with snapping pinion shafts. Upgrading to 70 gears absolutely helps. How do I know? Because we are doing it. Are you also aware that you can get 35 spline pinions for the D60 through Randy's or you just think a Dana 80 is a much more practical swap? LMFAO

You are John Cappa right? I would expect someone that was associated with a 4x4 rag for years to be much less retarded but then again I remember you from way back and you always were pretty much an idiot. I pop my head in the other day and wow, nothing's changed

[Twinpinion]

[facepalm] Umm, try again. [/facepalm]



I said people were killing gear sets due to gear deflection. This has nothing to do with snapping pinion shafts. Upgrading to 70 gears absolutely helps. How do I know? Because we are doing it. Are you also aware that you can get 35 spline pinions for the D60 through Randy's or you just think a Dana 80 is a much more practical swap? LMFAO

You are John Cappa right? I would expect someone that was associated with a 4x4 rag for years to be much less retarded but then again I remember you from way back and you always were pretty much an idiot. I pop my head in the other day and wow, nothing's changed

Ya know, I was simply trying to let you in on what I had seen with Dana 60s and Dana 70s. That's all. No need to get irritated.

Why yes, I am aware of the Dana 60 gearsets available with a 35-spline pinion. However, as best I can tell you must be the only guy in america that can make a high-pinion gearset work in a low-pinion housing.

On the 14-bolt shafts here:
Dimensions on the shafts are:Spline Diameter (yellow arrow) 1.59""Neckdown" (green arrow) 1.367"Operating diameter (purple arrow) 1.351"Spline length (blue arrow) 2.165"Spline engagement (red arrow) short side 1.418"Spline engagement (red arrow) long side 1.569"
Found Here:http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...ble/index.html

[cajun_lad]

On the 14-bolt shafts here:
Dimensions on the shafts are:Spline Diameter (yellow arrow) 1.59""Neckdown" (green arrow) 1.367"Operating diameter (purple arrow) 1.351"Spline length (blue arrow) 2.165"Spline engagement (red arrow) short side 1.418"Spline engagement (red arrow) long side 1.569"
Found Here:http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...ble/index.html

and then the next line says....
"Axle diameter by the flange - 1.458" "

[Twinpinion]

and then the next line says....
"Axle diameter by the flange - 1.458" "

OK, and the operating diameter lists another dimension. Most shafts have several different diameters along their lengths. But typically when you talk about a shafts measurement, you talk about the diameter at the spline. Dana 44 shafts and stubs neck down too but everyone still calls it a 1.31 (shaft) and a 1.25 (stub), Rockwells neck down, Dana 35s neck down, all kinds of different axles neck down yet nobody ever refers to them this way. But, I don't care, whatever makes you happy. Let me know how those 1.458 30-spline axles fit your 14-bolt. I'm pretty sure they will be a little sloppy in the carrier.

[jeeping1974]

I could have sworn we had a popcorn eating smilie face in our list at one time.

[rockjeep44]

Ya know, I was simply trying to let you in on what I had seen with Dana 60s and Dana 70s. That's all. No need to get irritated.

Why yes, I am aware of the Dana 60 gearsets available with a 35-spline pinion. However, as best I can tell you must be the only guy in america that can make a high-pinion gearset work in a low-pinion housing.

On the 14-bolt shafts here:
Dimensions on the shafts are:Spline Diameter (yellow arrow) 1.59""Neckdown" (green arrow) 1.367"Operating diameter (purple arrow) 1.351"Spline length (blue arrow) 2.165"Spline engagement (red arrow) short side 1.418"Spline engagement (red arrow) long side 1.569"
Found Here:http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...ble/index.html

That makes you the first guy I've ever heard of refer to 14 bolts with that shaft diameter but ok I'll give it to you. I'm well aware the 35 spline pinion gearset is only for HP. I was throwing it out there because for some reason you got on the point of snapping pinions when all we were talking about was breaking gears due to deflection resulting from lots of HP and a heavy right foot.

The only thing that has me riled is that for a so called expert you've added nothing but crap to this thread. The highlights would be first posting the wrong shaft diameter, saying a D70 is the same size as a D60 because they use the same diff cover (my favorite so far), down playing the advantages of a pinion support bearing in the 14b, then saying if you bust gears in a 60 you should go to an 80 which is some of the dumbest crap I've heard yet. It has been shown that if you are busting R&Ps in 60 stuff a built 14 bolt is the fix. Why in the world would you go to an 80 (more money, bigger, more rare, etc)? This is not stuff I read on the internet, this is real world.

[Twinpinion]

That makes you the first guy I've ever heard of refer to 14 bolts with that shaft diameter but ok I'll give it to you. I'm well aware the 35 spline pinion gearset is only for HP. I was throwing it out there because for some reason you got on the point of snapping pinions when all we were talking about was breaking gears due to deflection resulting from lots of HP and a heavy right foot.

The only thing that has me riled is that for a so called expert you've added nothing but crap to this thread. The highlights would be first posting the wrong shaft diameter, saying a D70 is the same size as a D60 because they use the same diff cover (my favorite so far), down playing the advantages of a pinion support bearing in the 14b, then saying if you bust gears in a 60 you should go to an 80 which is some of the dumbest crap I've heard yet. It has been shown that if you are busting R&Ps in 60 stuff a built 14 bolt is the fix. Why in the world would you go to an 80 (more money, bigger, more rare, etc)? This is not stuff I read on the internet, this is real world.

You're clearly making it sound very different than what I had intended. Maybe if you have time to reread everything and acknowledge it all as a whole instead of individual bits you'll have a better idea of what I was trying to say. Sorry if I have irritated or confused you.

Regardless, like I said way back at the beginning, the 14-bolt was going to be a better swap for this guy.

Good luck...I'll be in your neighborhood in a few weeks.

[Lindel]

Enough with the name calling and finger pointing. Take if off-forum please.