Reliable 30 year old FSJ

[Andyr421]

Hi all,

I'm looking to see what I can do to make my 1989 GW a more reliable car. This will by my pleasure/weekend car as I live in the city and can commute by public trans to work.


No matter how basic, I'd like some recommendations from you experts on what to do to make sure I'm never stuck on the side of the road - it happened once due to the fuel pump.

Any help is appreciated. Not mechanically savvy but I try, and my friend is a mechanic and is willing to lend a hand (And tools more importantly!)

I want it to be a true driver's car. I have stock wheels and stock-spec tires and dont plan on switching out the beautiful wheels and hubcaps.

I wouldn't mind upgrading the interior so any recommendations on that would be great. I need to repair some minor tears and some gashes in the leather seats and carpet covering of the seats. A few broken clips need to be replaced for the carpet panels and the headliner needs to be installed (no board at all!) Im thinking of making my own but can't decide on the material to use. Should I insulate underneath the headboard?

I've done/have had done some tune up-items, new electric fuel pump (I have a Fuel-Injection system), tires aren't bad, battery terminals replaced, hoses replaced, radiator replaced, new radio, rubber mats (I'm in chicago - sue me for trying to save the jeep branded burgundy carpet).

Thanks for looking and posting guys!

[JeepJeepster]

More than likely the ignition system is whats going to cause a break down. More so since you have an electric fuel pump and FI.

I went through and completely replaced the ignition system with a 'stealth HEI', relay for the stealth HEI and TFI MSD coil, HEI adaptor and cap, and MSD wires. I keep a spare stealth HEI box, coil, and coil pickup with me just incase. So far so good going on 2 years.

Also make sure all of the carb emissions wires are tidy/fused.. They are not fused from the factory. not only will this cause a break down it will set the Jeep on fire..

Another option (where you at serehill?) is an MSD ignition box.

[ShagWagon]

Welcome!

First thing I'd do is install some AK-47 gun racks for the Chicago war going on I hear over there...

I'd truck Bedliner the crap out of it. Undercarriage for the salty snow damage that will occur and rust you out quick. Bedliner the whole interior for soundproof since it seems you are going to go through it all anyways. The floor, roof, tailgate.... you can use a fatmat or audio sound deadner, but truckbed liner helps for rust as well.

Couple things to carry is a small toolbox with sockets, vise grips, crescent wrench and some screwdrivers. Also some water, oil, ATF, brake,fluid. Get some fuses, fuel pump and a ignition control module. Throw all that stuff in the back till you may need it. Common things that go wrong and can be changed out in a jiffy.

Upgrade wiring with serhills wire harnesses for the headlights and tailgate window.

Keep a good eye on your gauges while you drive as most problems will show up as low oil pressure or overheating or low charging on those to tell you something isn't right and needs to be addressed. You may have a data logger with the Fuel injection computer chip that you can check to see how your engine system is running. Check that every so often. Problems will show there.

Mostly try to stay ahead of a breakdown as most of them but not all can be seen coming before you have a breakdown.

[twmattox]

Just my two-cents:

A) brakes: make sure the calipers, wheel cylinders, hardware, master cylinder, shoes, and pads are all in top working order

B) wheel bearings and u-joints: replace/repack/grease as needed the front and rear wheel bearings, all 5 u-joints in the drive shafts and both u-joints in the front axle

C) steering: make sure ball joints and tie rods are up to snuff

D) suspension: shocks and steering stabilizer

E) Misc: make sure your vacuum hoses are all in good shape, fuel filter isn't clogged, choke and TAC working properly, and a good tune-up

Now you are ready for "upgrades"

1) MSD ignition over Stock ignition module...many claim faster starts and better idle

2) consider the "large cap/rotor" upgrade

3) electric fuel pump is great for a rig that isn't used daily...it will fill the carb bowl without a ton of cranking

4) fuel: carburetor? TBI? kind of your choice. Properly set-up, both work quite well and will let you get rid of a good bit of the vacuum mess under the hood. Honestly, I placed this one last because the stock carb really works quite well in most cases.

[Andyr421]

Welcome!

First thing I'd do is install some AK-47 gun racks for the Chicago war going on I hear over there...

I'd truck Bedliner the crap out of it. Undercarriage for the salty snow damage that will occur and rust you out quick. Bedliner the whole interior for soundproof since it seems you are going to go through it all anyways. The floor, roof, tailgate.... you can use a fatmat or audio sound deadner, but truckbed liner helps for rust as well.

I will be installing bulletproof glass as well.
I have an exhaust leak so I do need to take care of that and Im thinking of tackling the tailgate window upgrade I saw on another forum. I understand its no small feat but the poster made it seem pretty straight forward.
Link: http://www.myjeepandme.com/fix-your-...neer-tailgate/

Again, I am a complete newbie when it come to repairs, builds, working with my hands to be honest so I need to start easy. (lifting the carpets, cleaning them, checking for rust (Read: find out how much rust)

What's the importance of deadening sound? are we talking about mechanical or road noise?

Couple things to carry is a small toolbox with sockets, vise grips, crescent wrench and some screwdrivers. Also some water, oil, ATF, brake,fluid. Get some fuses, fuel pump and a ignition control module. Throw all that stuff in the back till you may need it. Common things that go wrong and can be changed out in a jiffy.

&

Mostly try to stay ahead of a breakdown as most of them but not all can be seen coming before you have a breakdown

I think this wins the internet right here, With a 30 year old car you can never be to prepared. I will have to get these things out of my garage/ buy some.

Upgrade wiring with serhills wire harnesses for the headlights and tailgate window.

I will look into the serhills harness.

Also make sure all of the carb emissions wires are tidy/fused.. They are not fused from the factory. not only will this cause a break down it will set the Jeep on fire..

"....MSD ignition box."

Is the stock ignition that bad? I've seen this before but never really thought of it. Are power and fuel efficiency gains that substantial? or what is the primary goal of this, increase in reliability?

I would like to avoid fires from happening.... My mechanic told me I should dump the FI and revert to a carb system. Ideally a weber I was told.

I do think I need to play with the FI. When I'm at a stop light I step on the gas and I get no response sometimes until two seconds later then the truck all of a sudden accelerates. This may be the gear box though because sometimes it creeps forward and it feels like it just doesnt engage. I mean it should always be in first no? or does it disengage when the breaks are fully depressed? I don't quite understand this.

RESPONDING IN LINE

A) brakes: I have replaced the rear brake shoes and drums and the front checked out okay

B) wheel bearings and u-joints: replace/repack/grease
I will need to check with my mechanic as this sounds daunting.

C) steering: had some work done on this as It was super shaky, and non responsive.

D) suspension: New shocks were put in! The truck almost seems lower, but less floaty which I dont mind at all. Im thinking due to them just being new they are a tad stiffer.

E) Misc: I've heard the Expletive Deleted!Expletive Deleted!Expletive Deleted!Expletive Deleted! vacuum hoses are a HUGE painpoint.



Now you are ready for "upgrades"

1) MSD ignition over Stock ignition module...many claim faster starts and better idle
(I had some rumbling/shaking in the past but my mechanic fixed it) start times arent a huge worry for me (except for in the cold) is this to reduce the stress on the ignition system? (shorter start time/less heat/leas wear)

2) consider the "large cap/rotor" upgrade
What is this? Rotor as in front bakes getting larger and replacing the rear drum brakes? I think I'd rather not touch the rear brakes for now to be honest.

3) electric fuel pump is great for a rig that isn't used daily...it will fill the carb bowl without a ton of cranking
(Great! i dont drive this daily at all!) Do you think the reason why I have a delay between when I depress the accelerator and the actual acceleration of the vehicle is due to the carb bowl not filling prior to pressing the gas or afterwards.

4) fuel: My mechanic wants me to switch back to a traditional carb (not stock though)

[serehill]

well

I'm right here.
PM me if I can help.

[joe]

No matter how basic, I'd like some recommendations from you experts on what to do to make sure I'm never stuck on the side of the road -

Those parts are sold at the "Rainbows and Unicorn" store. Point being a 30 year old FSJ is a hobby car and there's nothing you can do/replace to insure it'll never crap the bed in the future. If it's in well maintained good original condition w/o a bunch of previous owner "improvements/modifications" it should be reasonably reliable with continued normal maint/servicing. Everything on the car is 30 years old so rather than wasting money on new parts the "may break" cause they all do eventually and new/rebuilt Taiwan auto parts store are significantly worse than OEM. Fix only what you need to fix then rather than trying to out guess what could break in the future, spend your time/money on tools and learning to maintain/repair it as needed. A 30 year old FSJ that has to go to shop every time it coughs or farts is going to be a budget busting economic disaster. Hobby cars require an owner commitment of hands-on time maintaining them or a large bank account. The original engine and running gear in an 88 is pretty decent stuff(with normal use/servicing). I'd think your biggest issues will be electrical. I highly suggest you drop $100 to buy an original or reprint of the "factory" TSM (tech service manual AKA shop manual). Forget Haines or Childrens(Chilton) manuals..they aren't year specific enough to be useful. Back to the electrical thing, the first tool I recommend for an 88 is a cheap($20) DMM (digital multimeter). Otherwise while you're in the Rainbow and Unicorn store pick up an extra catalog for me Keep up with the maint work and an 88 will be a cushy comfortable luxo fluff intensive family cruiser. Enjoy.

[tgreese]

Agreeing with joe and other posts above.

i would point out that the main things that fail are 1) tires, 2) fuel delivery, and 3) spark (ignition). These are the usual problems that happen suddenly. Most other mechanical problems occur with some warning. Old cars also have problems with belts and hoses. Every new-old car I've owned has been fitted with all new belts and hoses.

You can also predict what fails most by the sorts of parts that auto parts stores sell a lot of: water pumps, fuel pumps, alternators, radiators, ignition coils, etc etc. This will give you an idea of what to preemptively replace, or what spare parts it would be prudent to carry.

Jeepers typically carry emergency spares, because these cars are often driven into the back country where there are no garages or auto parts stores. There have been many posts on this forum and other Jeep forums about what to carry and why.

Get good tires, have a good spare, and tire repair tools. Know how to change a tire and/or fix a flat. Get a decent jack and lug wrench - not the bumper jack that came with the Jeep.

A bit of disagreement - The ignition stuff mentioned above (big cap and rotor, MSD module) are upgrades. I would not worry about upgrades until I had the factory systems squared away. I would start with the factory ignition, and replace anything that's marginal and carry strategic spares. Read the TSM and familiarize yourself with the components and function of the ignition system.

hth!

[bufurd]

There have been many 30-50 year old FSJ that have gone many hundreds of thousands of miles, like many old cars and trucks have. They all needed tinkering along the way to get em there, good advice you've been given here. Learning how it works and how to fix it will ease your mind about driving it anywhere you wanna go, save a pile of money and most importantly in my opinion the satisfaction of driving your work is priceless. I don't know anyone that drives an old vehical regularly that doesn't know how it works or how to fix it, it's the only way I know of to know when something needs attention. Like said most things give a warning, being intimate with it helps catch them before they are big problems. Good luck, there are no real shortcuts.

[twmattox]

Responded in the quote:

1) MSD ignition over Stock ignition module...many claim faster starts and better idle
(I had some rumbling/shaking in the past but my mechanic fixed it) start times arent a huge worry for me (except for in the cold) is this to reduce the stress on the ignition system? (shorter start time/less heat/leas wear)

MSD is just an ignition upgrade. Multiple sparks at low RPM, "hotter" spark at high RPM. Stock works just fine...but, if you are looking for an upgrade this is one a lot swear by.

2) consider the "large cap/rotor" upgrade
What is this? Rotor as in front bakes getting larger and replacing the rear drum brakes? I think I'd rather not touch the rear brakes for now to be honest.

This is the distributor cap. AMC used Ford caps. Ford upgraded to a large cap in the late '80s. It supposedly can handle a larger spark without crossfire.

3) electric fuel pump is great for a rig that isn't used daily...it will fill the carb bowl without a ton of cranking
(Great! i dont drive this daily at all!) Do you think the reason why I have a delay between when I depress the accelerator and the actual acceleration of the vehicle is due to the carb bowl not filling prior to pressing the gas or afterwards.

No...that delay is more likely due to a bad accelerator pump in the carburetor OR a decent vacuum leak.

4) fuel: My mechanic wants me to switch back to a traditional carb (not stock though)

Go with your mechanic's advice. He will be the one working on it. Some love their Edelbrock, others swear only by Holley...in short most of them will work just fine...

[FSJunkie]

They're the same as any old car.

You just need to get used to your vehicle. You learn how to raise the hood and spot anything that could cause trouble down the road. Inspect the vehicle every weekend. Check things. Verify everything is in good shape before you head out. If the hoses look crappy, replace them. If the carburetor is dirty and nasty, clean it. Old cars usually give people trouble when they treat it like a new car. In other words: they never raise the hood until something goes wrong. Typically you can visually see something about to fail before it actually does.

Honestly though any component that is 30 years old and has not been replaced is suspect for failure. Things will fail from time to time unless you go through the car mechanically from end to end, verifying everything for reliability along the way. Basically a mechanical restoration. That's also nice because you now know the condition of everything and can anticipate when it will fail so you can replace it before it does. It's just knowing your car by doing things yourself. Mechanics can't do that for you.

Things to look out for:

-Fuel pump: It's old and looking for a place to fail. Carry a spare or replace it now...and still carry a spare.

-Ignition coil: Same thing. They die dead as a doornail without warning. Carry a spare, or replace with new and carry a spare.

-Ignition module. Same thing.

-Fuel tank and lines: The hoses are probably rotten by now. If they spring a leak you'll be stranded. Replace them now. The tank is probably full of crud. If it breaks loose and clogs the lines you'll be screwed. Clean it out now.

Carry basic tools. Nothing fancy. A few screwdrivers, a wrench set, a socket set, and some pliers. If you did your homework before you left home, then you should never need to do a major repair on the side of the road, only minor fixes and adjustments.

[grand_wag_85]

I usually replace the battery, starter solenoid and cables first.

Take a look at the rubber fuel lines under the hood from the pump to the carb as well as the return line.

Next, do a basic tune up. Cap, rotor, plugs, wires, PCV valve and the coil.

If you are unsure when or if it has ever been done I highly recommend the timing chain. While you're in there inspect the distributor drive gears on both the distributor and camshaft. Since the front cover will be off the engine anyways replace the fuel pump, oil pump and water pump.

Of the 8 or 9 V8 AMC engines that I have owned the timing chains have always killed me dead on the road.

[nograin]

What the h*ll, I'll throw my 2 cents in as well.
Basically, I'm with Joe and Tgreese.
Very few aftermarket 'upgrades' are going help reliability. Your rig is already a bit in the hole because it has some one elses upgrade on it (FI). That adds another puzzle to the mix when going to the parts store or trouble shooting. Once it becomes your modification, its a little better, because you know what you did.

In your shoes, here's what I suggest.
1.Get a AAA card or have a plan in case you do need roadside help.
2. Things you can do yourself start with just regular maint.
New fluids in everything (coolant, bleed brakes, oil, diffs, transfer case) air filter, fuel filter, spark plugs. As a bonus, all of these will tell you a bit about the condition.
Check the belts, the hoses - yes look all of them over. Replace if going bad. You wont see everything, but its a start and you'll get familiar with things. The vacuum diagram is right there. Its just a puzzle to be solved as needed. It's not that hard. Its just more time than most want to spend.
3. Check the wiring. Just look for bad insulation, corrosion.
4. Check the brake pad thickness, same with the shoes and adjust.

If you're going to be driving much at night, then one upgrade I do agree with is to power the headlights through relays. (granted I driven 15 years on the stock wiring but am changing to relays now. They take the load off of a bunch of important wires and connectors. Therefore the old wires and connectors are less likely to overheat if connections are not good) Serehill makes a wire harness that makes installing relays easy. Also in your case, the FI and electric fuel pump add load to the electrical system. Load it was not designed for unless the Previous owner took that into account.

The Haynes Manual specific for Wagoneers, J-tucks and Grands has decent illustrations. Some of it is generic but I was surprised how good it is. There's also an online service some mechanics use "All-Data". You can get a subscription for a year just for your Wag.

As far as installing a webber, not sure why that would be easier than a Motorcraft 2100 or 2150. Yes the webbers are fine carbs, but again you'll be doing a custom setup. Custom makes sense if you're hot rodding, but otherwise I don't see the advantage. Since you have the FI, might want to try to make it work better.

Good luck. These are not the easiest vehicles to learn on.

[Tanker]

Stay away from the South side and Purple. Heavy on the gun range.

[letank]

Great ideas from the team, but remember that it is not if you are going to break down, but when you are going to breakdown. I remember what was going to happen when I left San Fran with a 35 year old jeep for Moab... I have a tent, a sleeping bag, a stove, food and beer and wine, no problem...and a

AAA premier membership is the way to go...

So the basic is that a car needs gas and electricity to run, and you need to have a quick evaluation of what is happening when you run into an unpredictable breakdown that did not start with a loud bang or crack.

a breadown can happen shortly after you replaced a part.... dang cheap stuff from a foreign country or you plain messed it up. Remember not to change something before a long trip... at least drive 20 miles to make sure that your modification is stable.

Welcome to the asylum...

As for spare I have a fuel pump, spark plugs, and ignition module and distributor... a spare gas can and a DMMM -aka voltmeter-