J20 Project DILLIGAF

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  • WrenchMonkey
    232 I6
    • Dec 15, 2016
    • 223

    J20 Project DILLIGAF

    So I have a 1977 Jeep J20, which is nearly the same as saying "I have a rig that's actively trying to self destruct"



    My genius tailgate mod. Copyright pending...



    I'm thinking of filling the crack with spackle and painting it maroonish to match the truck, with "JEEP" decals but all mis aligned and falling over..



    Mandatory Engine picture:


    the Astute among you might notice the significant lack of vacuum lines... I should probably properly rig the vacuum advance to the CTO but bigger problems keep slowing me down on simple things like that.

    The Bones: D60 rear, D44 front, diff gear appears to be 3.73, TH400 tranny, BW1339, AMC 401 (w/ Edelbrock performer intake, Street Demon 625 4bl carb)

    Supposedly the trucks story goes something like old dude bought it new, drove it some (roughly 35k miles), old dude dies, truck sits in barn/carport for many years before widow sells it. 2nd owner supposedly drove it for pretty long commutes, decided a 4' long glass pack was a good idea, rigged the worst car stereo system I've ever seen and in general has made my life more difficult. But I've always wanted an FSJ with a big V8 and now I have one. Winning!... sort of.

    From what I understand from my BW1339 it seems to be full time 4x4 which makes the vacuum powered selector pointless besides to "lock" equal power to front and rear during "emergencies" lol. It's already a heavy truck with a low compression v8.. I would like to make it full time 2wd and select 4x4 at will. For economy... and burnouts.

    Current problems in order of priority:
    -Windshield Wipers: I have a new motor, a new switch but the correct wires have disappeared into the tangle of FUBAR wiring and something was blowing every fuse I put in the fuse box before I removed the switch (I had thought it might have been the switch itself not grounding properly). Considering I live in Seattle this IS actually kind of a big deal. I'm considering making an entirely separate circuit for the wiper blade motor and bypassing the fusebox altogether.

    -Headlights: Speaking of bypassing the fuse box, I was trouble shooting the headlights, replaced the switch and currently have the strange problem of them working... randomly. Not like, on and off during a drive but more like they either work or they don't at will for seemingly no good reason. Because of this problem I actually purchased a cheap accessory light harness off amazon and some cheap LED fog lights to keep the cops off my Expletive Deleted!Expletive Deleted!Expletive Deleted!.

    -Weatherizing: I'm trying to figure out what would be some good weather stripping for the door jams, any advice/suggestions much appreciated.

    -Fixing the Doors' "Hang": I don't know how else to put it but both doors are no longer lined up properly, they barely close at all, I tried the old guess and check method of loosening and tightening things but nothing I tried seemed to work, any advice here is much appreciated.

    -Brakes: Busted a hose and replaced a master cylinder recently, mean to replace the other hose when I can figure out why my passenger rear drum refuses to bleed a drop.. once that happens I'll be replacing the front pads as well.

    -Exhaust: Someone did a very poor job of clamping in a huge glass pack, so exhuast leaks and it's god awful loud, which I tolerate because I know it must piss off every prius driving hipster in Seattle, but I do plan to put in hedman headers with 2.5" tubing after the collectors, H pipe and two turbo mufflers with side discharge, somewhere before the rear tires I'm thinking currently. Plan on doing all the welding myself with a fleabay mig.. we'll see how that goes. Even if I had power for my stickmate (which I don't in an apartment) it would go right through tubing. If the mig gets floor plans welded in and the exhaust done, it'll be worth it.

    -Doors 2.0: I have new cylinder locks for the doors but haven't had the time to figure out how to install them. It goes somewhere on this list but maybe not here.

    -Gas tank: likely cracked, fill tube actually falling apart, gas gauge inop. (Solution: Pickn'pull 20 gallon or bigger gas tank, eventually)

    -Battery Disconnect Switch: I already have the bits and piece I just haven't quite decided on a good location at the moment.

    -Bushings: Basically 40 y/o rubber needs to go. If anyone knows of a good source for a "kit" or bushing pack that mostly works for this application I'd love to be steering in the right direction. Found on BJ's, just about 400.. hell to the nah

    -Power Steering and Gearbox: basically same as above, except I'll be buying rebuild kits and attempting my hand at learning something new for both tasks. Same goes for the front calipers as well.

    -Rear Calipers: because drums are annoying. I dislike having to do more than pull off the tire to inspect the system for wear.

    -Glove box: the moldy card board had to go but I ordered the wrong plastic replacement (much too small) getting the right size and installing is on the list. Found one that might work on a site called "Team Grand Wagoneer" which has been surprisingly full of parts I want... Like weather stripping made specifically for our doors that fit perfect, no modification or pure fabrication required. Splurge item... eventually.

    -Radio: it has the factory one but it's been disconnected for who knows how long, PO had the worst installed head unit and wiring I've ever seen, seriously. Installing something that isn't too flashy and "modern" looking in the factory location is ideal but it's low on the priority list.

    -Headliner/general sound proofing: I may as well not have a cab at all for what it sounds like on the inside, and at 60mph I get that weird sheet metal wobble sound from the roof. After patching interior sheet metal I'll probably lay some bed liner down for heat/sound/corrosion purposes.

    Wish List/ low priority-high want:
    -Install "new" (undented) roof
    -Taller ring and pinion gears
    -Locking difs
    -TC with low range and the ability to remain 2wd most of the time
    -Engine rebuild ^compression ratio (wish not because price but because time)
    -Wiring harness (ditto)
    -Bucket Seats and new carpet
    -Floor pans welded in, small dents hammered out and holes in side panels cut out and patched up, leading to the eventual..
    -Primer, probably rusto-red because that's fairly close to the factory color anyways.
    -Lift
    -Tires

    I constantly have questions and so I believe this is where I'll ask them. I'm fairly handy with tools, there's not much I can't do given enough time, tools and money. Unfortunately for me all of these are in limited supply, I am not "cheap" but I will attempt to save as much money as humanly possible by doing anything I can do myself. My time does come at a premium these days, between work and college, but not usually enough to warrant the 100 american pesos an hour mechanics charge, plus overpaying for parts.

    I'm a big fan of unconventional solutions. I don't need everything to be "made for" my rig, if I can find some leaf springs for a good price that are the right size from XY application then hell yeah I'm using that instead of the 550 bucks skyjacker wants.

    I'm not sure how pictures work on here, photobucket has become a filthy hell hole of internet ads and shenanigans so I'm looking for alternative methods of posting pictures. For now though, everything I have done so far should have pictures in this Drive Folder

    Things accomplished: Blower Motor cleanup, heater core exchange, fixed push button "heater" "defroster" mechanisms (latch spring for holding the pushed button in place missing, spring from ball point pen working for now) replaced wiper motor, installed fog lights and independant fog light circuit, installed edelbrock intake and street demon carb, HEI distributor install, custom made street fire wires (msd), rear main seal replaced, oil pan leak remedied, master cylinder, passenger front brake hose and more.
    Last edited by WrenchMonkey; 01-23-2017, 06:23 PM.
    1977 J20 w/ the 360 V8 with 304 heads formerly known as "401"....
    Edelbrock Performer, Street Demon Carb, HEI Distributor
  • WrenchMonkey
    232 I6
    • Dec 15, 2016
    • 223

    #2
    Uhg, back to the hell hole that is photobucket

    Once upon a time photobucket was the bastion of image sharing for forums, it was easy, free, intuitive. Now it's a swamp of advertisements and analytic trackers... PITA. There's got to be a better way. Unfortunately img tags won't work for google drive photos...

    These are some of the pictures I've taken along the way, I used sharpie and white paint on the gauges, replaced broken pins with brad nails and soldered everything. Vinegar and 400 grit sand paper made quick work of the verdigris traces. I cleaned out and flushed the radiator as best I could after seeing the coolant passages from removing the intake. This is probably more pictures than there "need be" and probably not enough of the right things to post pictures off.. example, I have no pictures of the whole truck, lol. I will fix these things as I go.

    T-case tag in case it tells information I don't know about


    Rear axle tag on drivers side which I think says it has 3.73 gears.. otherwise I can't find the lot numbers on Dana's site which confounds me...


    Rear axle tag on drivers side which I think says it has 3.73 gears.. otherwise I can't find the lot numbers on Dana's site which confounds me...


    top passenger side cast number, if this gives any info I don't know about it.


    Old light switch next to new light switch..


    THIS is what happens when you rush your oil pan, over torque your cork gaskets and don't put ENOUGH RTV on the FRONT.. painful lessons.. in case you don't know what white froth in your oil means I had driven only a couple miles in the rain, white froth=emulsified oil= water mixing with oil= NOT GOOD. However, interestingly if you look at the cork gaskets, despite my substantially overzealous torquing resulting in nearly complete squeeze out in some cases, realizing this I had backed off a little and pushed in the squeezed out parts, before the RTV had set. Turns out the cork gasket can be very forgiving... but use a big 1/4" bead of rtv in the front and back or...


    Rear main seal location with no seal and rear bearing surface of crankshaft. I had literally never done this before so it was a leap of faith for me, inspecting the bearings there's some places that look a little rough but nothing failed the fingernail test. Part of these rigs "story" involves sitting in a barn for many years. I'm hoping the things that look like wear are just where oil eventually settled and sat for long time..


    Rear main end cap, with seal.


    Soldered pins and brad nail replacement on circuit board.




    I took that switch apart suspecting mass verdigris.. it wasn't as bad as I thought but..


    was improved greatly


    The back of the heating/cooling switch.. which reminds me, I definitely don't have AC.. Spring from a ball point pin used to repair the defrost/heat/(something else) switch, pulls the rail up and retains the pressed button until you push something else and it releases


    I used sharpie to fill in and darken the overall gauge face and then using 70% rubbing alcohol kind of blended that purple hue off. It kind of worked...


    What the gauges looked like after some freshening up


    Dash gauge circuit board before vingar/400 grit sand paper


    The only thing that impressed me about the factory manifold was it's gravity and how much squeeze out it had from (is this Factory or PO work??)






    As you could tell from the Odometer in the above pictures this rig was advertised as having only 42k original miles. After poking around it a good bit I'm not sure I don't believe it. There was some carbon, it absolutely sat for a long while somewhere, I have a hard time believing 142k could look like this, especially how not so great dinosaur oil was several decades ago. What do you guess think?

    Last edited by WrenchMonkey; 01-23-2017, 02:09 PM.
    1977 J20 w/ the 360 V8 with 304 heads formerly known as "401"....
    Edelbrock Performer, Street Demon Carb, HEI Distributor

    Comment

    • WrenchMonkey
      232 I6
      • Dec 15, 2016
      • 223

      #3
      DILLIGAF was temporary until I could find something, we have a new name. Truck is red, giving me a hell of a time with wiring and other things besides... Diablo.
      1977 J20 w/ the 360 V8 with 304 heads formerly known as "401"....
      Edelbrock Performer, Street Demon Carb, HEI Distributor

      Comment

      • 77Deepj20
        232 I6
        • Jan 24, 2016
        • 109

        #4
        I have a 77 j20 which also sat in the woods for 15 years and barely moved until I bought it. It has documented 35k original miles from the original owner and it was still a dirty ugly mess, so who knows. This truck pushed a plow through the frozen pits of hell and back again from the looks of it. However my engine blew up 500miles after I bought it, probably from sitting forever.
        1977 j20. Dana 60's, 4:10's Chrysler 360/np435/NWF blackbox/np203
        Hummer military 24 bolt wheels and 37" mt/r's.

        Comment

        • Ristow
          • Jan 20, 2006
          • 17292

          #5
          those are non bridge heads. pre '77.
          Originally posted by Hankrod
          Ristows right.................again,


          Originally posted by Fasts79Chief
          ... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.


          Originally posted by Fasts79Chief
          I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!

          It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...

          Comment

          • WrenchMonkey
            232 I6
            • Dec 15, 2016
            • 223

            #6
            Originally posted by Ristow
            those are non bridge heads. pre '77.

            I was wondering why the heads didn't match the TM! wait..





            J7A46YZ079295
            Year 1977
            Plant / Transmission Toledo, Automatic, Left Hand Drive
            Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) Rating 8400 lbs GVW, model 46
            Engine V8, 401 CID, 4 Bbl
            Model Year 1977
            1977 J20 w/ the 360 V8 with 304 heads formerly known as "401"....
            Edelbrock Performer, Street Demon Carb, HEI Distributor

            Comment

            • Ristow
              • Jan 20, 2006
              • 17292

              #7
              those are nice heads. what casting # on them? you can step up to 1.7 rockers.
              Originally posted by Hankrod
              Ristows right.................again,


              Originally posted by Fasts79Chief
              ... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.


              Originally posted by Fasts79Chief
              I LOVE how Ristow has stolen my comment about him ... "Quoted" it ... and made himself famous for being an ***hole to people. Hahahahahahahahahha!

              It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...

              Comment

              • WrenchMonkey
                232 I6
                • Dec 15, 2016
                • 223

                #8
                Big surprise, I find myself confused again

                So, went to look for the head casting number (without knowing where to find it, of course) and came up with nothing but the valve cover tag, 802N11 which, according to the tech library means my valve covers were made on February 11th, 1975 and are for a 2V 360...

                ...but my vin indicates 1977, made inToledo, Hydramatic-LHD, Truck J-20, 131" Wheelbase, GVW 8400, V8-401 4V, #79,295

                so 2 valves or 4? 360 or 401?

                And to make matters more confusing I went to have another look for the head casting numbers after doing some reading on the gargler, still couldn't find anything that said
                Originally posted by majik source of knowledge
                LOOK HERE <---- for head casting number
                but I learned some random stuff and noticed that the block has a big stamp on both sides under the engine mounts, so cool, I'll just take a peek... gah wtf 360! Can I get some consistency? and seriously, where's the head casting number at? I can find people talking about it all day but no one says dude, if you climb in the engine, stand on your head and twiddle your thumbs it'll show up on your left cheek after a trip to vegas...

                Doing some more poking around and found this, http://www.ifsja.org/tech/figures/engines.html which shows the 401 as having a 4 barrel carb... if that's true and they ONLY came with 4 barrels then I definitely do not have what I thought I had... because I pulled a 2 bbl motorcraft carb off a two barrel intake manifold... which means a solid 50% of why I bought this truck is a lie. I've already been upset with the clown I bought this from but now..
                Last edited by WrenchMonkey; 01-30-2017, 05:52 PM.
                1977 J20 w/ the 360 V8 with 304 heads formerly known as "401"....
                Edelbrock Performer, Street Demon Carb, HEI Distributor

                Comment

                • Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81
                  Cherokee Outlaw
                  • Jan 10, 2006
                  • 7292

                  #9
                  If the side of the engine block says it is a 360...it is a 360.
                  The head casting number is under the valve covers by the rockers here:


                  I'm betting your heads will read "3220503" according to this:
                  http://www3.sympatico.ca/david.crooks/amc.PDF
                  Last edited by Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81; 01-31-2017, 06:19 PM.
                  -Jonny B.
                  1979 Cherokee Golden Eagle - UNDER CONSTRUCTION
                  7" Alcan springs, BJ's HD shackles - 35x12.5x15 BFG Mud Terrains
                  AMC 401 - Pro-Flo 4 EFI
                  NV4500/NWF BB/NP205 - Triple Stick'd
                  F D44 - 4.10, Eaton E-Locker
                  R M23 - 4.10, Detroit Locker

                  1979 Cherokee Chief - Parts
                  1979 Cherokee Chief - Parts
                  1979 Wagoneer - Sold
                  1981 Cherokee Chief - Cubed

                  Comment

                  • mattmopar440
                    AMC 4 OH! 1
                    • May 17, 2007
                    • 4092

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81
                    If the side of the engine block says it is a 360...it is a 360.
                    The head casting number is under the valve covers by the rockers here:


                    I'm betting your heads will read "3220503" according to this:
                    http://www3.sympatico.ca/david.crooks/amc.PDF
                    wrong link
                    87' Grand Wagoneer
                    401/727/229, Currently:RUNNING
                    84 J10/20 hybrid 258/727/208 Daily Driver
                    80' J10 4BT/AX-15/208
                    74' J10 Go Grabber Green Sold
                    Originally posted by Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81
                    Inferior Chevy

                    Comment

                    • Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81
                      Cherokee Outlaw
                      • Jan 10, 2006
                      • 7292

                      #11
                      Originally posted by mattmopar440
                      wrong link
                      Works fine for me. It's a PDF file. You need a PDF reader to view it.
                      -Jonny B.
                      1979 Cherokee Golden Eagle - UNDER CONSTRUCTION
                      7" Alcan springs, BJ's HD shackles - 35x12.5x15 BFG Mud Terrains
                      AMC 401 - Pro-Flo 4 EFI
                      NV4500/NWF BB/NP205 - Triple Stick'd
                      F D44 - 4.10, Eaton E-Locker
                      R M23 - 4.10, Detroit Locker

                      1979 Cherokee Chief - Parts
                      1979 Cherokee Chief - Parts
                      1979 Wagoneer - Sold
                      1981 Cherokee Chief - Cubed

                      Comment

                      • WrenchMonkey
                        232 I6
                        • Dec 15, 2016
                        • 223

                        #12
                        Thanks for the picture Metal, I'll run out and pull a valve cover to see WTF is going on, cause according to your link the year head casting you said is correct (according to the valve cover tag) but it also says that year and casting has bridged rockers... which I don't have. So mysteries on top of mysteries.

                        I'm still that this is a 360... Everything looked proper from the outside, the air cleaner is from the original 401 and says 401, I took that and the VIN for gospel and was completely hoodwinked. I wanna the PO and
                        1977 J20 w/ the 360 V8 with 304 heads formerly known as "401"....
                        Edelbrock Performer, Street Demon Carb, HEI Distributor

                        Comment

                        • bkilby
                          350 Buick
                          • Jan 10, 2016
                          • 1083

                          #13
                          If your block says it's a 360, it's a 360 no matter what the stickers say. My '74 is an original 401 rig but now with a 360....
                          1974 Cherokee S. It's driving but needs more work. As usual!

                          Comment

                          • Heavy_Metal_Thunder_81
                            Cherokee Outlaw
                            • Jan 10, 2006
                            • 7292

                            #14
                            Originally posted by WrenchMonkey
                            Thanks for the picture Metal, I'll run out and pull a valve cover to see WTF is going on, cause according to your link the year head casting you said is correct (according to the valve cover tag) but it also says that year and casting has bridged rockers... which I don't have. So mysteries on top of mysteries.
                            Whoops! I misread the chart! I should have said Pre-'74 (321-2993, -3948, or -6090). Valve covers could have been swapped on from anywhere at any time, I never trust the tags.
                            You wouldn't be the first one to have been duped by a dishonest or unknowing PO, and you probably wont be the last. It has happened here many times. I always check the block casting, it is easy to find and a sure fire way to tell.
                            -Jonny B.
                            1979 Cherokee Golden Eagle - UNDER CONSTRUCTION
                            7" Alcan springs, BJ's HD shackles - 35x12.5x15 BFG Mud Terrains
                            AMC 401 - Pro-Flo 4 EFI
                            NV4500/NWF BB/NP205 - Triple Stick'd
                            F D44 - 4.10, Eaton E-Locker
                            R M23 - 4.10, Detroit Locker

                            1979 Cherokee Chief - Parts
                            1979 Cherokee Chief - Parts
                            1979 Wagoneer - Sold
                            1981 Cherokee Chief - Cubed

                            Comment

                            • WrenchMonkey
                              232 I6
                              • Dec 15, 2016
                              • 223

                              #15


                              looks to me like either 3212990 or 3212993. Well, actually I think it says 3212999 but that doesn't seem to be an option. 990 are 304 heads, 993 are 360s, but are 71-72 time frame... so if you're keeping track that's a 1977 J20 with 1975 valve covers and 1971ish heads...
                              1977 J20 w/ the 360 V8 with 304 heads formerly known as "401"....
                              Edelbrock Performer, Street Demon Carb, HEI Distributor

                              Comment

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