Recommendations for good quality brake pads

[gophman]

I had my '91 wagoneer out for a run in the lake District (u.k) at the weekend, while negotiating the kirkstone Pass which has up to 1in 4 descents with may tight turns I got serious brake fade to the point that I almost set fire to the front brakes (billowing smoke) and had to use both feet just to get some brake at all.
At the moment it has brake best pads, stock discs and dot 4 fluid, I understand the brakes aren't the most powerful in the world but a set of pads that would delay the fade would be awesome! I'm not wanting to do a complete upgrade (cost prohibitive over here).

[gpcl16]

. Sorry if I'm coming off like an , but maybe downshift it to 2nd or Low gear next time so you don't ride your brakes? If the brakes were overheating that badly your rotors are most likely warped and the surface is glazed. If they are, they will never work well ever again without new rotors. I would take a good look at the drums out back as well. Raybestos and Centric pads and shoes have worked well for me in the past for most vehicles I've worked on.

[440sixpack]

Good has different meanings in relation to brake pads. do you want them to last forever ? or do you want them to stop you ?


I buy the cheaper line of pads. they don't last as long but they work better.

[Ristow]

Pretty much anytime the brakes are performing poorly on these it’s because the rear brakes are way out of adjustment or shot.

Lotta people gripe about the brakes on these. I think they work fine when set up properly all the way around.

[KaiserMan]

Originally Posted by Ristow

Lotta people gripe about the brakes on these. I think they work fine when set up properly all the way around.

Ditto. I feel the stock brakes are very good on these when in proper working order. As mentioned above, down shifting while going down long hills can make a major difference.

Any good semi metallic pad from a reputable manufacturer should work well. Also as mentioned above, if you over heated the brakes that badly the rotors are probably toast. Definitely pull the rear brakes and check the condition of those as well.

[gophman]

Discs are still good, no wobble and the bluing disappeared within a few miles of normal driving, I've driven about 150 miles since with no issues, the brakes are back to normal operation.
My trans doesn't seem to engine brake. And as for what kind of pads, a set that don't fade as quickly.

[wiley-moeracing]

ebc makes some good pads and they are made in England

[gpcl16]

Originally Posted by gophman

My trans doesn't seem to engine brake. And as for what kind of pads, a set that don't fade as quickly.

Your trans should absolutely engine brake in all three gears. More so in 2nd and most in low. There is no possible failure in a Torqueflight 727 that I'm aware of that could cause you to not have engine braking but retain otherwise normal operation. Maybe your idle speed is too high?

Even the crappiest pads shouldn't fade under normal descents using a lower gear. Getting a better pad may help alleviate brake fade to some extent, but will not compensate for problems with your trans, rear brakes, or improper driving technique. I grew up and have driven extensively in mountainous areas. I frequently descend long grades and never once have I experienced brake fade in my Grand Wagoneer or any of the other 12 vehicles I've owned ranging from model years 1963-2006. I'm not trying to be a dick. Rather, my point is that something else is wrong with your vehicle and new pads (though at this point you probably need them anyways) are only a band-aid solution that won't address the root problem.

As others have mentioned, make sure your rear drums and shoes are in good shape and properly adjusted. If not it will put a lot more load on the fronts. If your rotors and/or drums are glazed they will have reduced friction even with new pads and never work properly ever again. When rotors/drums overheat past a certain point, it alters the molecular structure of the metal itself.

[gophman]

Thanks for the input, to be honest, I didn't try trans braking after I had tried it previously and didn't think it was helping much.......but that might have helped!

[acct21]

Can you get 1980s GM 3/4 ton front brake calipers? The brake series was referred to as the 'JB7.' Much larger piston and somewhat larger pad. Direct swap -- just need the soft lines as well as the banjo fitting is a little different between the OEM and the GM.

Made a huge difference in braking force when I swapped over on mine. Lots of performance pads available for those calipers.

[61Hawk]

Originally Posted by wiley-moeracing

ebc makes some good pads and they are made in England

I just replaced my EBC pads, they are good pads... but also some of the dirtiest pads I've ever used. A week of intown driving after cleaning the wheels and they'd be completely black again. I replaced them with Advance Auto Carquest Wearever Gold pads and I can't tell much of a difference in stopping distance but they are a lot cleaner brake... which just means more wear on the rotors.

[wiley-moeracing]

ebc makes different compounds for different applications, which means more or less dust, more or less rotor wear and shorter or longer stopping distances. at least you have a choice and figure what is best for you. I have them on race trucks, Harleys and daily drivers and am very happy. There are other good pads also, just make sure you get the ones that are best for your applications.

[joe]

For cars I've just gone with my local Napa's premium OEM spec pads. Never had any issues. On my bike I like EBC sintered pads. Again no issues. As previously mentioned if your rear drum brakes are out of spec you're likely over working the front discs on long grades. Stock FSJ spec brakes are actually pretty good if in good condition and the entire system is up to spec.

[FSJunkie]

Originally Posted by Ristow

Pretty much anytime the brakes are performing poorly on these it’s because the rear brakes are way out of adjustment or shot.

Lotta people gripe about the brakes on these. I think they work fine when set up properly all the way around.

Oh for sure. I especially get a kick out of hearing the people with disk front/drum rear Wagoneers complain about their brakes. My Wagoneer drives around on drum brakes at all four wheels, and they are only 11"x2" drums at that without power assist. I also tow trailers with it and live in a mountainous part of the country. So my reaction is "Boo-hooo, waahhh-waaahhhh, poor spoiled children with your disk brakes".

Downshifting is a lost art among modern drivers. Almost every day I drive through the mountains and see people in modern cars going down the hill with their brake lights on almost the whole way. Usually their license plate is from a flat state like Illinois, Kansas, South Dakota or something like that. They just don't get it. Meanwhile I am behind them and I only occasionally touch my brakes for the corners because I downshifted 5 miles ago.


In all seriousness and not making fun of our Scottish friend here, there very well may be something wrong with his brakes. As you said, probably the rear brakes not doing their job.


Organic brake linings: Pros: Low pedal effort, low wear on rotors and drums. Cons: Mediocre heat resistance, wear out fast, lots of brake dust.

Semi-metallic brake linings: Pros: Low pedal effort, good heat resistance, last longer, less brake dust. Cons: Chew up rotors and drums.


Ceramic brake linings: Pros: Excellent heat resistance, last a long time, very little brake dust, easy on rotors and drums. Cons: Require high pedal effort.


I use the highest quality organic linings I can find on my cars because I am easy on brakes, my drums and rotors are expensive or irreplaceable, and I often don't have power assist.

[Ristow]

Originally Posted by FSJunkie

Oh for sure. I especially get a kick out of hearing the people with disk front/drum rear Wagoneers complain about their brakes. My Wagoneer drives around on drum brakes at all four wheels, and they are only 11"x2" drums at that without power assist. I also tow trailers with it and live in a mountainous part of the country. So my reaction is "Boo-hooo, waahhh-waaahhhh, poor spoiled children with your disk brakes".

that '69 1414X i had had power drums all the way around and it had the strongest smoothest brakes of all my fsj's. drums can and do work well. the servo effect (correct term?) of properly working drums makes them grab smoothly and strongly. i had no plans to change it to disc.




i had a friend of mine years back,always dropping gears as he slowed down,in his automatic suburban. not that i think it does any real harm,i never did that,i always figured cheaper to do a brake job than a tranny overhaul.

[FSJunkie]

The Bendix Duo-Servo drum brakes on our FSJ's use the rotation of the brake drum to mechnically multiply their braking force many times over what the hydraulic pressure could achieve by itself. Doubling the hydraulic pressure actually quadruples the braking force. Disk brakes can't do that. Disk brakes require more hydraulic pressure to achieve the same braking force and are linear: doubling hydraulic pressure doubles braking force.

This is why drum brakes work so well wthout power boost, and is why they have a "touchy" feel as in a small change in pedal pressure creates a large change in braking force. Unfortunately it is also why drum brakes can be easy to lock up in hard braking.

Drum brakes actually work extremely well so long as they are not overheated. Using them too much will overheat them. Too many panic stops without enough time to cool in between or continuously dragging them while going downhill to slow the car down are things that can easily overheat drum brakes. Overheated drum brakes will lose braking power.

Disk brakes almost never overheat. They almost never fade. You can get away with dragging them downhill to slow the vehicle down and not have any consequences. Modern drivers are used to this and drag their brakes a lot. They use their brakes as speed control, not just for stopping. They don't know how to CONSERVE their brakes for when they really need them like drivers used to. These people then hop into an old car, drive it like they drive a modern car, and then complain about how crappy the brakes are on old cars. The car is not the problem, the driving style is the problem.

Truckers know. Semi trucks have drum brakes. Semis stop extremely well.....once. They conserve the brakes for when they really need them. Notice that trukers don't drag their brakes when going down grades. Old cars need to be driven the same way.