International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > General FSJ Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-11-2014, 10:10 AM
KnoxvilleWag's Avatar
KnoxvilleWag KnoxvilleWag is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Mar 05, 2013
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 50
News on the new Wagoneer!

Some new news is out on a new Grand Wagoneer in the Wall Street Journal. Looks like production may begin in 2015. In the article, they speak of us!

"In the early 1990s, Chrysler killed off an earlier version Grand Wagoneer, citing slow sales and stiffer competition from other luxury SUVs. Since then, the boxy Jeep with square headlights and recognizable wood-grain siding has developed a small cult following."

Read the story here: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...224964184.html
__________________
1989 Grand Wagoneer, Rebuilt AMC 360 (300hp, 400 ft.lbs.), Repainted in close-to-original Burgundy (Land Rover "Anniversary Claret" 2006), replaced faux wood decal and rubber trim with 70s style wood stripe and chrome trim.

Last edited by KnoxvilleWag : 01-11-2014 at 10:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-11-2014, 10:20 AM
FSJunkie's Avatar
FSJunkie FSJunkie is offline
The Nigel Tufnel of the FSJ world.
 
Join Date: Jan 09, 2011
Location: Not The Hot Part, Arizona
Posts: 3,983
If production begins in 2015, you can bet it'll be a 2016 model. They originally said we'd see it this year (2014), and that leads me to believe they already have concepts styled up in the design studios of Chrysler, but may have revised the design. Hopefully Jeep takes advantage of the huge cult following the original Wagoneers have and capitalize on it. Few Jeep people have never heard the name Wagoneer, and the name draws incredible respect.

However, considering how poorly the new Cherokee reflects both the XJ and ZJ versions, both of which have huge followings as well, I doubt the new Wagoneer will make the original proud.

I also see no reason to stick with the lengthy and unnecessarily baroque name of "Grand Wagoneer", since there is no regular Wagoneer below it to require such distinction. Simply calling it "Wagoneer" would be more than sufficient.
__________________
'72 Jeep Wagoneer Custom, 360 V8

I love how arguements end as soon as Ristow comments. Ristow is right...again.

Last edited by FSJunkie : 01-11-2014 at 10:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-11-2014, 10:33 AM
austinaubinoe's Avatar
austinaubinoe austinaubinoe is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Aug 08, 2010
Location: Maryland/ Williamsport, PA
Posts: 2,995
HAHA Poor sales! The reason they kept the wagoneer going 4 years longer then the J truck was people were still buying them for some reason. I remember reading Chrysler made over 8 grand profit off each one they sold.

They wanted to 'clean up' their image...
__________________
Austin

1991 Hunter Green Grand Wagoneer
5.9 2bbl-727-NP229-TFI-30x9.5 Firestone M/T's-Brush Guard-tire mount
SOON: 4350 and cast iron intake

Others:
-1994 Baby Grand
-2000 XJ cherokee on Tons
-1953 REO M35A2 6x6
-1955 Willys Pickup



Quote:
Originally Posted by rustywagoneers_com
i am not an addict, i can stop anytime.
i dont have a problem, you people have the problem.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-11-2014, 11:06 AM
KnoxvilleWag's Avatar
KnoxvilleWag KnoxvilleWag is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Mar 05, 2013
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 50
The article says that they have their sights set on competing with the likes of Cadillac Escalade and Mercedes GL. I just pray they make it a capable off-roader, no matter how luxurious it is (and a Grand Wagoneer SHOULD be luxurious). I'm ok with Chrysler/Fiat using the latest Grand Cherokee as a starting platform. I just hope they don't do as they did with the Commander. I hope there is a wheelbase stretch and a beefing-up of the mechanicals.

I've spent a week with the new Grand Cherokee (a rental I drove all over the mountains of Western Wyoming) and it's pretty good.

The end result needs to be more capable and built with more rugged components. It can't just be a rebadged Durango as some have predicted.

I also hope they keep some of the distinctive design elements of the original: The forward-leaning nose, no seven-slotted grille of the other Jeeps, the rear pillar that gets smaller as it moves from the roofline to the tail light, a generous portion of chrome.

Above all (I'm probably dreaming here) the engines need to be uncompromisingly strong. No base model v-6. A v-6 diesel wouldn't hurt my feelings (I'd much rather see them go for an I-6 Cummings like those in the Ram Trucks), but no Pentastar 6 or 4-banger diesel to appease the CAFE bureaucrats. The Hemi should be standard. They should really go after those of us who want to tow in style!

Come on, Chrysler! We're counting on you!! Make us proud! I'll be among the first in line to buy!!
__________________
1989 Grand Wagoneer, Rebuilt AMC 360 (300hp, 400 ft.lbs.), Repainted in close-to-original Burgundy (Land Rover "Anniversary Claret" 2006), replaced faux wood decal and rubber trim with 70s style wood stripe and chrome trim.

Last edited by KnoxvilleWag : 01-11-2014 at 11:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-11-2014, 01:06 PM
FSJunkie's Avatar
FSJunkie FSJunkie is offline
The Nigel Tufnel of the FSJ world.
 
Join Date: Jan 09, 2011
Location: Not The Hot Part, Arizona
Posts: 3,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by austinaubinoe

They wanted to 'clean up' their image...
...meaning Iacocca wanted to get rid of the AMC image.

The original Wagoneer was a luxury car built on a 1/2 ton truck chassis. All the toughness of a 1/2 ton pickup truck with the interior comfort of a Lincoln or Cadillac. That is why they were so popular and sold so well.

A straight across modern equal to the original Wagoneer would be built on the Ram 1500 chassis. Chevrolet/GMC Suburbans have been this way for decades. Take a top of the line Ram 1500 chassis, put a Jeep body on it, and fill the interior with top quality leathers and woods.

But that's not what the public wants. SUV's have become more Sport and less Utility. They want it to handle like a sports car.
__________________
'72 Jeep Wagoneer Custom, 360 V8

I love how arguements end as soon as Ristow comments. Ristow is right...again.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-11-2014, 02:12 PM
KnoxvilleWag's Avatar
KnoxvilleWag KnoxvilleWag is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Mar 05, 2013
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSJunkie
The original Wagoneer was a luxury car built on a 1/2 ton truck chassis. All the toughness of a 1/2 ton pickup truck with the interior comfort of a Lincoln or Cadillac. That is why they were so popular and sold so well.

A straight across modern equal to the original Wagoneer would be built on the Ram 1500 chassis. Chevrolet/GMC Suburbans have been this way for decades. Take a top of the line Ram 1500 chassis, put a Jeep body on it, and fill the interior with top quality leathers and woods.

But that's not what the public wants. SUV's have become more Sport and less Utility. They want it to handle like a sports car.

Good word. The genius of the original Willis Jeep engineers is found in how they combined rugged truck-like towing and famous Jeep off-road capability with Cadillac-like luxury and station-wagon utility. Add to this the unique styling!

You're right, GM and Ford have been doing it--especially GM with the Suburban/Blazer/Jimmy/Yukon/Tahoe/Escalade. They are all derived from a full-size truck chassis and have done quite well!

I think the single most distinctive difference between the aforementioned GM SUVs and the Wagoneer is the lower ride height which helped with stability, handling, and step-in effort. This really set the Wagoneer apart. It wasn't--like the others--merely a wagon on a truck chassis.

Here's an old ad making my point (for the FSJ Cherokee):


It really helps me understand why the design lasted so long and why I love mine so much. THIS is what Chrysler needs to remember. Do something right and it will pay.
__________________
1989 Grand Wagoneer, Rebuilt AMC 360 (300hp, 400 ft.lbs.), Repainted in close-to-original Burgundy (Land Rover "Anniversary Claret" 2006), replaced faux wood decal and rubber trim with 70s style wood stripe and chrome trim.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-11-2014, 02:40 PM
Mikel's Avatar
Mikel Mikel is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 09, 2000
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 6,273
FSJs and XJs were both very efficiently laid out heightwise. Good groud clearance while keeping passenger and overall heights low, with a lower center of gravity, better aerodynamics (!), handling, braking...


After what they did to the "Cherokee" name , I'm not looking forward to the new Wagoneer.
__________________
1969 M715 6x6
1963 J300 Swivel frame
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-11-2014, 08:21 PM
2003 mcs 2003 mcs is offline
Gear Head
 
Join Date: Nov 01, 2003
Location: DBN MI
Posts: 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by FSJunkie

However, considering how poorly the new Cherokee reflects both the XJ and ZJ versions, both of which have huge followings as well, I doubt the new Wagoneer will make the original proud.

I also see no reason to stick with the lengthy and unnecessarily baroque name of "Grand Wagoneer", since there is no regular Wagoneer below it to require such distinction. Simply calling it "Wagoneer" would be more than sufficient.

As a former owner of an XJ Chief, Gladiator and current owner of a Grand Wagoneer, I love the look of the new Cherokee. The world did not need another retro box.

People said bring back the Power Wagon, they did, and it was bigger and better than the original. I have yet to see one on the road.

So the product engineers, designers, market planners have it all wrong about how many owners actually take their vehicles off road? If people needed/wanted a true offroad vehicle the market and your neighborhood would flooded with these vehicles. The Wrangler would be a top 10 selling vehicle.

Think about it, very few people on this site would spend over $25k (let alone $50K +) on a new Wagoneer. Probably 90% of the people here do everything on the cheap(nothing wrong with that). When someone asks for an opinion on a value of their Wagoneer, it's always cheaper then expected. The auto market follows trends, creates trends, and most of the time (in the past 10 years) get it right. To get a true off road capable vehicle that some here would like to own, would not sell in numbers to support it's development. A factory, capable off roader was sold, it was called the H1. How much did that cost? How many were sold?
__________________
2013 Mini Paceman
1985 Jeep GW (coolant leak again!)
1979 Ford Fiesta
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-11-2014, 09:42 PM
Cherokeeowner's Avatar
Cherokeeowner Cherokeeowner is offline
258 I6
 
Join Date: Jul 25, 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2003 mcs
As a former owner of an XJ Chief, Gladiator and current owner of a Grand Wagoneer, I love the look of the new Cherokee. The world did not need another retro box.

People said bring back the Power Wagon, they did, and it was bigger and better than the original. I have yet to see one on the road.

So the product engineers, designers, market planners have it all wrong about how many owners actually take their vehicles off road? If people needed/wanted a true offroad vehicle the market and your neighborhood would flooded with these vehicles. The Wrangler would be a top 10 selling vehicle.

Think about it, very few people on this site would spend over $25k (let alone $50K +) on a new Wagoneer. Probably 90% of the people here do everything on the cheap(nothing wrong with that). When someone asks for an opinion on a value of their Wagoneer, it's always cheaper then expected. The auto market follows trends, creates trends, and most of the time (in the past 10 years) get it right. To get a true off road capable vehicle that some here would like to own, would not sell in numbers to support it's development. A factory, capable off roader was sold, it was called the H1. How much did that cost? How many were sold?

I have yet to see any new vehicle in the last ten, heck thirteen years that I would spend 10K on, let alone 50K. Nothing out there appeals to me. The ones I would buy are just still concepts or are no longer manufactured.
__________________
Member FSJ Prissy Restoration Association

"Proud to be prissy."

1988 Grand Wagoneer

1986 Grand Wagoneer
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-11-2014, 11:36 PM
cherokee83 cherokee83 is offline
258 I6
 
Join Date: Oct 12, 2006
Location: in my own world
Posts: 470
the day's of true jeep's are over sorry to say! Keep your jeep if you fill the need or have the rush for power app. they have all types of push botton toy's you can add on.one thing I do know we can add toys and power what can a 1995/2015 add other then fog lights and 5th wheel
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-12-2014, 11:06 AM
austinaubinoe's Avatar
austinaubinoe austinaubinoe is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Aug 08, 2010
Location: Maryland/ Williamsport, PA
Posts: 2,995
I agree that its probably just going to be an upgraded Durango. Im interested to see how they set it apart. I also agree that it should compete with the Escalade and Mercedes SUVs and only come with a V8.
__________________
Austin

1991 Hunter Green Grand Wagoneer
5.9 2bbl-727-NP229-TFI-30x9.5 Firestone M/T's-Brush Guard-tire mount
SOON: 4350 and cast iron intake

Others:
-1994 Baby Grand
-2000 XJ cherokee on Tons
-1953 REO M35A2 6x6
-1955 Willys Pickup



Quote:
Originally Posted by rustywagoneers_com
i am not an addict, i can stop anytime.
i dont have a problem, you people have the problem.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-12-2014, 10:44 PM
DanHS's Avatar
DanHS DanHS is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 29, 2004
Location: Baiting Hollow, Long Island NY
Posts: 5,268
I think that a lot of us here, even if we do not plan to purchase a new Jeep, still want the new Wagoneer to reflect the original, and not be a Wagoneer in name only. This is because putting that name on something that doesn't capture the essence of the original is kind of an insult to the original, and the people who appreciate the original. Just like when Ford wanted to switch the Mustang to the front wheel drive MX6 platform (they actually did build and sell that car, they renamed it the Probe), people were outraged that Ford would take that name and put it on something that did not capture the essence of the original in any way. When GM made the H2 and H3 they didn't just throw the Hummer name on an SUV, they made them tall and big with offroad features so that they felt like something that should be named Hummer. Even when AMC replaced the SJ Cherokee with the XJ, they came up with a pretty capable and impressive vehicle that retained the things that made a Cherokee what it was.

Many people who purchase Grand Wagoneers do so because of the image, the classic design, the woodgrain, the V8, the offroad capability. Even if they don't intend to go towing stuff through the snow or whatever, they want the vehicle that can do that, and they want the look. To release a vehicle that has the name and some woodgrain on it, without the other features of the originals, would be a disappointment, especially when Jeep could easily build it.

All Jeep has to do is build it on a JK 4dr Rubicon platform, make a 5.7 Hemi standard and 6.1 Hemi and diesel(s) optional. The body should be essentially the same silhouette and layout, just redesigned, but keeping everything in the same style as the original, just improved and modernized. The interior should be top quality this time, again styled after the original, but modernized. Then they should have a regular Wagoneer that is more bare bones and can be anything from a work/fleet vehicle, to an optioned out offroader, and the Grand Wagoneer being the woodgrained luxury cruiser that is still capable of getting dirty. Since they already have a platform that has all the capability needed and is the right size, there's really no reason or excuse to come up with anything less.
__________________
'84 Grand Wagoneer 360/727/229, 32" General ST's and 36" Swampers, 3" lift, TFI/Mallory 6AL, CS 144, Taurus fan, custom bumper, and custom 'bodywork'. Soon to have 6" lift

'79 Cherokee S 360/T15/D20, rusting away while I figure out what to do with it

'91 Final Edition GW in Spinnaker Blue!

My FSJ pics

FSJ Grille Identification
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-12-2014, 11:52 PM
FSJunkie's Avatar
FSJunkie FSJunkie is offline
The Nigel Tufnel of the FSJ world.
 
Join Date: Jan 09, 2011
Location: Not The Hot Part, Arizona
Posts: 3,983
If I was head of Jeep, there would be three vehicles: Wrangler, Cherokee, and Wagoneer. All three would be built on the traditional Jeep chassis of a ladder frame, solid Hotchkiss drive axles, and either leaf springs or a 4-link coil setup.

Wrangler would be the small 2-door offered as the affordable, simple, off road vehicle in anything from plain-Jane to sporty flavor. Think of a CJ-5 in the 70's.

Cherokee and Wagoneer would share the same platform, only Cherokee would be a 2-door, and Wagoneer would be a 4-door. Both would be available in plain-Jane, sporty, and luxury flavors, with only the Wagoneer offering a special ultra luxury "Grand Wagoneer" package. This would give buyers the option of ordering a basic Wagoneer as a 4-door utility truck.

Might drag in a Gladiator as well also sharing the Cherokee/Wagoneer platform.

Four vehicles, with three of them being sister designs. The parts interchange would slash tooling costs and raise profits. After all, that is the whole reason Kaiser and AMC made the Wagoneers, Cherokees, and J-series all so similar. How many vehicles does Jeep have now? Five? Six? Each has it's own nearly exclusive platform, resulting in explosive tooling costs.

But the Jeeps would never sell, and I'd end up running the company into bankruptcy before they hauled my rear out of the CEO chair.
__________________
'72 Jeep Wagoneer Custom, 360 V8

I love how arguements end as soon as Ristow comments. Ristow is right...again.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-13-2014, 08:04 AM
itselliot's Avatar
itselliot itselliot is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Aug 28, 2010
Location: 49410
Posts: 1,039
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHS

Many people who purchase Grand Wagoneers do so because of the image, the classic design, the woodgrain, the V8, the offroad capability. Even if they don't intend to go towing stuff through the snow or whatever, they want the vehicle that can do that, and they want the look. To release a vehicle that has the name and some woodgrain on it, without the other features of the originals, would be a disappointment, especially when Jeep could easily build it.

All Jeep has to do is build it on a JK 4dr Rubicon platform, make a 5.7 Hemi standard and 6.1 Hemi and diesel(s) optional. The body should be essentially the same silhouette and layout, just redesigned, but keeping everything in the same style as the original, just improved and modernized. The interior should be top quality this time, again styled after the original, but modernized. Then they should have a regular Wagoneer that is more bare bones and can be anything from a work/fleet vehicle, to an optioned out offroader, and the Grand Wagoneer being the woodgrained luxury cruiser that is still capable of getting dirty. Since they already have a platform that has all the capability needed and is the right size, there's really no reason or excuse to come up with anything less.

This!.................^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^

Sign and send to the design staff!!
__________________
If the PM's are full,...try e mail!
hpschrot@hotmail.com
616 four 03 44 0 five
'78 J-20 401 Q/T not quite stock anymore....Frame off Resto Mod..Super Cab nearing completion. SOMEDAY
"90 GW 360/727/229/3:31s 2" lift (SOLD in 2015)
'78 CJ7 Built from Scratch over a 7 year span.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-13-2014, 08:26 AM
Mikel's Avatar
Mikel Mikel is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 09, 2000
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 6,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHS
Then they should have a regular Wagoneer that is more bare bones and can be anything from a work/fleet vehicle, to an optioned out offroader, and the Grand Wagoneer being the woodgrained luxury cruiser that is still capable of getting dirty.


The person who buys a $50K luxo-barge does not appreciate that much cheaper versions that look a lot like his vehicle are sold. It dilutes the effect of owning an exclusive vehicle.
__________________
1969 M715 6x6
1963 J300 Swivel frame
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-13-2014, 09:00 AM
bg2pres's Avatar
bg2pres bg2pres is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Dec 07, 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikel
The person who buys a $50K luxo-barge does not appreciate that much cheaper versions that look a lot like his vehicle are sold. It dilutes the effect of owning an exclusive vehicle.
Bite your tongue!

I have an Escalade, Land Rover LR3 and a GW and a Golden Eagle Cherokee!

Escalade for engine (400hp), LR4 for the ride and interior and the offroad smartness, golden eagle for the capabilities in all. If i could put the cadillac engine in my cherokee, the interior and air suspension from the LR into that rig, I would be in heaven.

If the new Grand Wagoneer would rival the Escalade ESV in size (smartly smaller) with interior Range Rover appointments, with Dana 44s, lockers in rear, American made running gear, fold flat 3rd row, and THE RIDE is what kept the GW special. It was like driving a Cadillac into a Marsh and not worrying if it would make it and not spilling your coffee off-road, then getting back on-road and being the killer classy look... If they do that, its on! CLASSY, NOT RETRO BULL LIKE THAT BUTT UGLY SUPPOSITORY OF A CHEROKEE, sorry if someone bought that...If they use any material from any Chrysler current production, they will get laughed at. They need to get serious and not use the name to cover up their lack of ingenious design. Heck, i would go find the old men that designed the GWs and poll us on our appointments of design..

I could give them a great vehicle if they listened to what is in my driveway and why... I just cant find that all in one, in which the GW was, and frankly still is.

However, I get your point. But remember, that GW was expensive in its day. Only the rich could afford it...
__________________
bg2pres
1979 Jeep Cherokee Golden Eagle
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited
1981 Jeep Scrambler Laredo CJ8 (sold)
2000 Jeep Wrangle TJ Sahara (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-13-2014, 09:43 AM
bg2pres's Avatar
bg2pres bg2pres is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Dec 07, 2003
Location: Houston
Posts: 326
What I would want:

Range rover seats, short dash and short hood (drive one)
Super quiet until you stomp it and the exhaust comes alive!
Airbag suspension, raising 4"... All new technology inside, iphone dash
Fold flat third row, go look at how LR3 or LR4 3rd seats work, with leather so thick it would Moo.
Heated and cooled seats, front and rear. Rear AC and rear winshield washer.
Heated front windshield and side mirrors.
Airbags all around with integral roll bar that you cant see!
Stereo system with at least 16 speakers and 500 watts, HD radio and no CD!
Stud engine with dual exhaust out the back, sounding like an Escalade!
Performance on-road with supercharger, again RR Supercharged (drive one). rR is a little too small)
Eaton lockers front and rear, electric
Selectable 4x4, i think they have this right already in the Grand Cherokee.
LED lights everywhere, with washers and maybe even wipers!
Air pump with tank, to fill up accessories and tires (my hummer h2 had this).
Fold up running boards, with highest ground clearance under axles, no need for huge tires.
HIDDEN winch behind bumpers! OMG! OMG!
No plastic bumpers. If you are within an inch of something a Chevy will dent.
If they put a CB in it, i would fall in love!!!! What a difference maker!
Make them all trail rated! No more special editions, the truck should have everything!
Puddle lights that light up "Grand Wagoneer" on the ground when exiting vehicle.
Locking wheels so they don't get stolen, like an Escalade.
Straight and smooth interior panels, front to back, making interior wider. Nothing better than "feeling" big.
Roof rack has to be straight with no arch. have you ever tried to put a canoe on a suburban? LOL its an arch!
True tailgate with roll up and down window that NEVER BREAKS! Bring this back!
10,000 pound hitch with hidden backup lights that would blind someone if needed. Have you ever backed up a boat at night with tinted windows?
Fog lights that are bright, then hit a switch and they become super bright spot lights (off-road mode only).

If it can drive to the Houston Country Club, then straight to the South Texas ranch, passing the lodge and straight to the deer stand, then i am ready. Or the finest ski lodge and straight to the top of the mountain pass. Ect ect...
__________________
bg2pres
1979 Jeep Cherokee Golden Eagle
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited
1981 Jeep Scrambler Laredo CJ8 (sold)
2000 Jeep Wrangle TJ Sahara (sold)
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-13-2014, 10:54 AM
FSJunkie's Avatar
FSJunkie FSJunkie is offline
The Nigel Tufnel of the FSJ world.
 
Join Date: Jan 09, 2011
Location: Not The Hot Part, Arizona
Posts: 3,983
Modern SUV's with their stiff suspensions are responsive and handle well on the street, but I don't like how they ride off-road.

Modern SUV suspensions are too stiff for on-road handling to absorb the roughness of off-road conditions. The sway bars violently throw you side to side, the stiff springs hit every bump with a THUD, and the short suspension travel bottoms on the bumpstops at high speed.

My Wagoneer has soft leaf springs with no sway bars. Whether it be low speed or high speed off-roading, the axles are free to move however they need to absorb the roughness. I have tons of suspension travel. I can blast down rough dirt roads at 40 MPH and float along like a Cadillac while a modern SUV is rattling out every bolt and bottoming on it's bumpstops.

But, the modern SUV will out-corner me on a twisty mountain road.
__________________
'72 Jeep Wagoneer Custom, 360 V8

I love how arguements end as soon as Ristow comments. Ristow is right...again.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-14-2014, 09:39 PM
bmax65
 
Posts: n/a
New Wag......hmmmm

Hi All-

This is a very interesting thread, lots of differing thoughts and ideas.

My own, grumpy, .02 worth on the idea of a new Wag- rant ahead, apologies in advance.

1) Get some of these current techie-folks to scan an actual Wag. And then
STUDY it carefully.

2) Where needed, use their flipping computers to perhaps beef up the posts/pillars, just as needed- not the foot-thick pillars and gun-slit windows
you see everywhere....Wags had GREAT visibility, I love that feature. Plus headroom for a six-foot-plus guy, so my head doesn't bash the ceiling.

3) It should still look LIKE a Wag, Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley!!! Not some euro-global-morph blob, the new 'cherokee' is positively awful. Wags are a long lived, American
original, love it or not....if someone wants a blob, let them buy the competition. There's enough in modern engineering capability, that you do NOT have to have a blob to meet fuel/emissions requirements. C'mon, engineers, do your math, that's what you're paid for.

And please, make any faux-wood optional? I never liked the stuff on GW's, but then I'm a fan of the old Wags.

On that note, round headlamps, please....perhaps with a razor-type grille?

4) A good choice of engines, rugged and reliable. Not all Jeep owners are mall crawlers or yuppie office zombies, we actually go off road, or just like long drives, or have long commutes. Gas or diesel, but NO Fiat derived, fall apart crap. Or chicom licensed junk either.

5) Same for the trans and t-case, no flimsy, euro-effete or chicom lowest bidder trash. Choice of manual or auto. T-case, how about a real, manually selectable, job? With real, mechanical levers? No electrobrain solenoid crap that fries after a river crossing. 2wd, 4hi, 4lo, maybe even fwd/rwd lo if need be?

6) Real axles.....PLEASE. NO weak, flimsy, "suv/cross-dresser minivan" junk.
F/R D44's at least, and not in aluminum? Lockers on the factory option list?
How about some actual hubs?? With steel parts?

7) Suspension....leaf or coil, fine. No airbag/ride control junk....it's a Jeep, not a Rolls. Ok, fine, offer a Grand Wag with the cushy bits, but could us plain folks just have a strong and simple suspension that works? Not all of us demand a marshmallow ride.

And, please, STOP IT with the 30"+ crack-dealer/gangsta rims and rubber band tires. Save that trash for the Cadillac and Rover boys. How about something clean and classic and tried and true, perhaps a set of steel rims,
or a carefully done 5-slot mag? And some actually capable tires, not the
mall-crawler treads you seem to put on every new Jeep?

8) Interior.....it seems may just have to have all the latest luxury widgets.
Again, fine, offer a GW pack or even separate model. But it would be so cool, and appreciated, to have ROLL up windows, even a manual tailgate window. There are a few of us who like to do our own thing, and need no servants.

Also, how bout just a nice set of front buckets, console with the floor and t-case shifters...maybe some actual working gauges and even a CB radio in the console....and NO a/c, climate control, sat/nav, super stereo, multiple tv screens, bluetooth, etc., and no bloody "I-knob" either. Some Jeep folks just like plain, functional, and simple. We may be a minority, but we do exist.

The old Wags really are a modern classic- not perfect, but long lived and loved. Contrary to current thinking, there is nothing wrong with a WAGON-eer....it's a wagon! I have never thought of mine as an SUV, CUV, or whatever politically correct yuppie crap they call wagons nowdays.

And not all of them were luxed out, some were just simple, yet loved workhorses, used but not abused.

A 'modern Wag' could be done, with enough forethought and effort. But I do think alot of you guys on here are right, the current market demands super-techno-barges, not rugged and capable and simpler Jeeps.

Hope the current customers will like their Fiat-sco-ized Durangos, because that's probably what's going to happen.

I am just happy to have a Wag again. She may be primitive and simplistic compared to the new stuff, and quirky too, but I want to keep her anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-14-2014, 09:39 PM
bmax65
 
Posts: n/a
New Wag......hmmmm

Hi All-

This is a very interesting thread, lots of differing thoughts and ideas.

My own, grumpy, .02 worth on the idea of a new Wag- rant ahead, apologies in advance.

1) Get some of these current techie-folks to scan an actual Wag. And then
STUDY it carefully.

2) Where needed, use their flipping computers to perhaps beef up the posts/pillars, just as needed- not the foot-thick pillars and gun-slit windows
you see everywhere....Wags had GREAT visibility, I love that feature. Plus headroom for a six-foot-plus guy, so my head doesn't bash the ceiling.

3) It should still look LIKE a Wag, Great Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley MoogleyGreat Googley Moogley!!! Not some euro-global-morph blob, the new 'cherokee' is positively awful. Wags are a long lived, American
original, love it or not....if someone wants a blob, let them buy the competition. There's enough in modern engineering capability, that you do NOT have to have a blob to meet fuel/emissions requirements. C'mon, engineers, do your math, that's what you're paid for.

And please, make any faux-wood optional? I never liked the stuff on GW's, but then I'm a fan of the old Wags.

On that note, round headlamps, please....perhaps with a razor-type grille?

4) A good choice of engines, rugged and reliable. Not all Jeep owners are mall crawlers or yuppie office zombies, we actually go off road, or just like long drives, or have long commutes. Gas or diesel, but NO Fiat derived, fall apart crap. Or chicom licensed junk either.

5) Same for the trans and t-case, no flimsy, euro-effete or chicom lowest bidder trash. Choice of manual or auto. T-case, how about a real, manually selectable, job? With real, mechanical levers? No electrobrain solenoid crap that fries after a river crossing. 2wd, 4hi, 4lo, maybe even fwd/rwd lo if need be?

6) Real axles.....PLEASE. NO weak, flimsy, "suv/cross-dresser minivan" junk.
F/R D44's at least, and not in aluminum? Lockers on the factory option list?
How about some actual hubs?? With steel parts?

7) Suspension....leaf or coil, fine. No airbag/ride control junk....it's a Jeep, not a Rolls. Ok, fine, offer a Grand Wag with the cushy bits, but could us plain folks just have a strong and simple suspension that works? Not all of us demand a marshmallow ride.

And, please, STOP IT with the 30"+ crack-dealer/gangsta rims and rubber band tires. Save that trash for the Cadillac and Rover boys. How about something clean and classic and tried and true, perhaps a set of steel rims,
or a carefully done 5-slot mag? And some actually capable tires, not the
mall-crawler treads you seem to put on every new Jeep?

8) Interior.....it seems may just have to have all the latest luxury widgets.
Again, fine, offer a GW pack or even separate model. But it would be so cool, and appreciated, to have ROLL up windows, even a manual tailgate window. There are a few of us who like to do our own thing, and need no servants.

Also, how bout just a nice set of front buckets, console with the floor and t-case shifters...maybe some actual working gauges and even a CB radio in the console....and NO a/c, climate control, sat/nav, super stereo, multiple tv screens, bluetooth, etc., and no bloody "I-knob" either. Some Jeep folks just like plain, functional, and simple. We may be a minority, but we do exist.

The old Wags really are a modern classic- not perfect, but long lived and loved. Contrary to current thinking, there is nothing wrong with a WAGON-eer....it's a wagon! I have never thought of mine as an SUV, CUV, or whatever politically correct yuppie crap they call wagons nowdays.

And not all of them were luxed out, some were just simple, yet loved workhorses, used but not abused.

A 'modern Wag' could be done, with enough forethought and effort. But I do think alot of you guys on here are right, the current market demands super-techno-barges, not rugged and capable and simpler Jeeps.

Hope the current customers will like their Fiat-sco-ized Durangos, because that's probably what's going to happen.

I am just happy to have a Wag again. She may be primitive and simplistic compared to the new stuff, and quirky too, but I want to keep her anyway.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1983 Wagoneer Build Kansas_Nova General FSJ Tech 69 12-24-2015 06:09 PM
News on the New Grand Wagoneer from NAIAS Tonka J200 General FSJ Discussion 20 01-18-2014 07:08 AM
Wagoneer owners here in Montana are dangerous men! Hartman General FSJ Discussion 16 06-16-2011 10:28 PM
First wagoneer camping trip. MikeinColorado General FSJ Discussion 22 06-14-2011 11:40 AM
Grand Wagoneer To Wagoneer Grill Swap BARsSS General FSJ Tech 1 03-28-2005 09:56 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner