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  #1  
Old 04-14-2009, 10:26 PM
elkhntr121 elkhntr121 is offline
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Auto vs. manual decision w/ a twist

OK, here is my delima - I'm trying to decide between keeping my TF727/np 208 set up and adding a Klune V, or swapping in a 6.32 T-18 and NP 208.

My goal is an ultra capable elk hunting/expedition truck - need/want low crawl ratio, would enjoy the benefit of auto, but also like the reliablilty of a 4 speed manual. Interested in opinions one way or the other to help me make my decision.

I currently have a TF 727/NP208 in the truck. I also have a complete T-18/NP208 combo w/ everything to swap in sitting on the work bench ready to rebuild and install including bell housing, linkage, flywheel, pedals, and even a factory tilt manual column (or sell if I don't use...). I will rebuild either set up, so do not plan to consider that cost into the decision. Also, either will require driveline modifications, so that isn't a decider. Either will be behind a mild performance rebuild 401.

My J-20 has a D60 w/ 4.56 & detroit in the rear and I just completed a spring over/shackle reversal with a 79 Ford high-pinion D60 in the front, also w/ 4.56 & a detroit - also did full high steer - cool swap!!! (T&J shackle reversal kit, 2" BJ's front springs, Ballistic high steer arms, etc). Truck is sitting on 37" TSL's on steel rims.

Anyone with experience with an auto/klune underdrive set up? Anyone swear a t-18 manual is the way to go? Other things to consider?
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  #2  
Old 04-14-2009, 11:03 PM
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fireman91186 fireman91186 is offline
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If it were me and I was building a more offroad beast I would like the auto myself. But one problem you must consider and address is the cooling issues of the automatic. Maintenance would be a lot easier on the manual as well. But I think it might come down to your driving preference.
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  #3  
Old 04-15-2009, 02:13 AM
incommando
 
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T18.

Water crossings have much less chance of killing it. A more simple driveline with a killer crawl ratio. Cool factor.
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  #4  
Old 04-15-2009, 06:19 AM
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I've been running a 360/NP435/Klune 2.7/Atlas 4.3 combo for the past 5 years. I loved it. However, right now I am currently in the middle of swapping all that out for a Chevy 6.0/Th400 and keeping the Klune 2.7/Atlas 4.3. Honestly, I think it comes down to personal preference. You can build an auto to be reliable. Have you wheeled a manual before? Also, what ratio Klune were you considering?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by welchct
There are about 5 trails that actualy have section that are upwards of 85* and climb 40-50 feet at this deg.

"The combination of fine split tail and fine whiskey will make any man lose focus." -FSJeeper
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  #5  
Old 04-15-2009, 07:55 AM
elkhntr121 elkhntr121 is offline
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Rockjeep,

Open to the Klune ratios, but probably the 2.7. Crawl ratio with the Klune 2.7, np208, & TF727 = 78.73. Crawl ratio with the T18 = 75.22. Both are respectible for my needs.

Pretty much equal. If I use the Klune 4.1, crawl ratio is 119.55 - real low & probably much lower than I actually need for this applicaiton.

The auto would seem to be a nice option in the tight & steep trails of the NW, though the T18 in low creeps well too. Remember, this is a J20, not a CJ or buggy - I'd like to keep the body on the truck as long as possible!

Why are you changing to the auto?
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  #6  
Old 04-15-2009, 08:20 AM
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Well, since you have the T18 and a Klune is around $2000 I would go the T18 route.
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  #7  
Old 04-15-2009, 08:21 AM
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jeeping1974 jeeping1974 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhntr121
Why are you changing to the auto?

No more three footed wheeling?
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  #8  
Old 04-15-2009, 08:53 AM
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orangecherokee orangecherokee is offline
 
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Personally I would run the manual. Reason being I don't want to be stuck out in the middle of BFE with an auto to either overheat, get water in it or God forbid the truck dies and you have to push/jump it off. It boils down to preference when driving but I would look at the application on this one. I loved the t18a when I had it. Some days I wish I could go back.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Topgun2mo
I would think boxing would limit the amount the frame could flex over obstacles which I think IMO would be a bad thing. I would think you would want all the articulation possible.
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Originally Posted by johnny019
I'm not saying lockers don't improve the performance of your rig, just that they're overrated.
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  #9  
Old 04-15-2009, 09:37 AM
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red mistress red mistress is offline
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J20 Spring over.... need pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhntr121
OK, here is my delima - I'm trying to decide between keeping my TF727/np 208 set up and adding a Klune V, or swapping in a 6.32 T-18 and NP 208.

My goal is an ultra capable elk hunting/expedition truck - need/want low crawl ratio, would enjoy the benefit of auto, but also like the reliablilty of a 4 speed manual. Interested in opinions one way or the other to help me make my decision.

I currently have a TF 727/NP208 in the truck. I also have a complete T-18/NP208 combo w/ everything to swap in sitting on the work bench ready to rebuild and install including bell housing, linkage, flywheel, pedals, and even a factory tilt manual column (or sell if I don't use...). I will rebuild either set up, so do not plan to consider that cost into the decision. Also, either will require driveline modifications, so that isn't a decider. Either will be behind a mild performance rebuild 401.

My J-20 has a D60 w/ 4.56 & detroit in the rear and I just completed a spring over/shackle reversal with a 79 Ford high-pinion D60 in the front, also w/ 4.56 & a detroit - also did full high steer - cool swap!!! (T&J shackle reversal kit, 2" BJ's front springs, Ballistic high steer arms, etc). Truck is sitting on 37" TSL's on steel rims.

Anyone with experience with an auto/klune underdrive set up? Anyone swear a t-18 manual is the way to go? Other things to consider?


I've been in limbo trying to decide how to lift my J20.... would appreciate pictures.


Auto vs manual debate will never be solved..... personal preference....
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  #10  
Old 04-15-2009, 11:53 AM
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trail mule trail mule is offline
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I would go for the Manual because they are tougher than the auto. You choose your gear, don't have to worry about the tranny heating up. Pretty much everything that has been mentioned by the guys that prefer the manual. I installed an np435 with np205 in mine and wouldn't trade it for an auto.
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  #11  
Old 04-15-2009, 01:21 PM
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Stuka Stuka is offline
 
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For a hunting vehicle (which means you will most likely be far from civilization) I would try and make everything as reliable as you can. And that means having a manual trans. It won't over heat, it will run with water in it, you can always push/roll start if you need to. And you would end up with a much better crawl ratio. And you would also have better speed control going down steep hills. Even if the clutch linkage snapped, you can still drive (had to drive my Chero with a T18a home from woodcutting (with a full load of green oak) with no functioning clutch. You have to shift a bit slower, but it will slide between gears fine without the clutch (bit rough on the synchros over an extended period of use though)

An auto may be more simple to operate, but you have to worry about cooling it, if any water gets in it will die, any fluid leak means you won't move, etc.

So from a pure reliability standpoint, I would go manual.

From a driving aspect, personally I MUCH prefer a manual over an auto.
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  #12  
Old 04-15-2009, 01:33 PM
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duncanstives duncanstives is offline
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I have REALLY bad luck with autos... The 727 in my waggy SEEMS reliable so far but I bet one day I will end up with fluid leaking everywhere and a non moving vehilce just like I have with most every auto I have owned...


So... Can anyone give me a ballpark cost on a junk yard t18?
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  #13  
Old 04-15-2009, 01:46 PM
rockjeep44's Avatar
rockjeep44 rockjeep44 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhntr121
Rockjeep,

Open to the Klune ratios, but probably the 2.7. Crawl ratio with the Klune 2.7, np208, & TF727 = 78.73. Crawl ratio with the T18 = 75.22. Both are respectible for my needs.

Pretty much equal. If I use the Klune 4.1, crawl ratio is 119.55 - real low & probably much lower than I actually need for this applicaiton.

The auto would seem to be a nice option in the tight & steep trails of the NW, though the T18 in low creeps well too. Remember, this is a J20, not a CJ or buggy - I'd like to keep the body on the truck as long as possible!

Why are you changing to the auto?

Because you can't do this with a manual
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GuhpKTsp-4
or this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bdwLxprAdM

Hehe. Seriously though, after 5 years of wheeling some of the toughest trails the southeast has to offer I pretty much felt like I had found the limit of a manual transmission. The harder the obstacles get the more I've been wanting an auto and more horsepower. So, I'm swapping in a big motor and auto so I can peel the :o:o:o:o out. That's pretty much it.
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Buggy Buildup

Quote:
Originally Posted by welchct
There are about 5 trails that actualy have section that are upwards of 85* and climb 40-50 feet at this deg.

"The combination of fine split tail and fine whiskey will make any man lose focus." -FSJeeper
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  #14  
Old 04-15-2009, 02:19 PM
deadironrat deadironrat is offline
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For you since you will be out in the middle of no where I would go with the T18, I have one in my J10 and LOVE it. I also have a 727 in my wagoneer and I think its ok. It will be nice for a DD but if I was planning on doing any extremely remote wheeling I would go with the stick. Biggest advantage in my opinion is being able to push start. Its really easy to just leave you lights on by mistake and with an auto you're just SOL. Also with that low of a gear ratio and a stick you will only need to go about half a mile an hour to push start, that = easy.
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  #15  
Old 01-06-2018, 10:22 AM
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letank letank is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockjeep44

found this great post... while debatting about buying a 4 spd FSJ avail locally... I'll stay with the auto, thank you for such a great video. I'll put a bigger trans cooler and bypass the coolant radiator if I ever do these tricks
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