Water Hybrid Questions

[JPSwapMohn]

well me and my dad are gonna do it. My jeep is not being drivnin right now till i gets outta debt. But I'm all for trying it. Don't really understand everything behind it. Just if it works great, if not, oh well, ya know?

So any progress with this?

The only thing I can think as viable in this is if a catalyst of some sort is added to the system to help drive the elctrolysis and the drag created by the alternator being continuously engaged is less than than the end benefit.

I think you could "recover" some energy that might otherwise be lost, and this may result in some improved mileage. I would have to understand exactly what effect H2 has on the A/F mixture and what ratios would have to be reached to see any effect on the combustion.

Also understand that a car alternator functions at about 60% efficiency at best.

I am extremely scheptical. That is my nature, but I would put more faith in it if I could see a set up and some legitimate data on improvements. The websites trying to get $50 or $100 from us for the "plans" don't offer a lot in the way of independent testing and empirical data.

I look forward to hearing of your progress

[matt thompson]

yes, perpetual motion has the same idea behind it. getting more energy out of something than you put in. The efficiency of using electrolysis to split the h20 molecule is only about 40% efficient at it's most. you would be using more energy splitting water molecules than you would get out of burning the HHO gas. Sorry to kill everyones (who had them) hopes. So you would actually make your "hybrid" less efficient. But if there is one good thing about high gas prices it is that we are all using our frontal lobes a little more.

[stump_breaker]

Well, I have had several people swear by an HHO generator so I built one myself, actually I bult two since the first on blew up.
I insalled it on my Nissan Titan athough I never got a chance to drive the truck with the device due to the fact I built it from plastic and the engine warped the bottle and made the lid pop off.

I tried Sodium Bicarb for my electrolyte. It works but not as well as plain old salt. The most difficult part was getting the right amount or salt in the water to get the correct amperage draw. Anything over 15 amps is a waste IMO from my testing. The was not enough signiicant HHO production to justify the extra current draw. 5/16 all thread makes a great annode and cathode. Air tightness of your generator and bubbler (if you use one) is critical.

Anyway back to my truck. I simply ran a 1/4" line to the intake. Nothing special. I hooked the HHO generator up to a battery charger and at about 15-20 amps, it generated enough gas to cause the idle to fluctuate on my truck, much to my surprise since the Titan has such a big engine and this is such a small amount of gas. It was intriguing enough that I will be building another one and trying again.

Say it works, say it doesn't. People who have 'em swear by 'em.

[GWChris]

It cannot work, then energy has to come from somewhere. If you enjoy working on such projects, maybe a water injection system would be a more useful thing to make - mostly it just cools the combustion chambers. But it is possible you could replace the EGR system and run more advanced timing and actually improve the efficiency of the engine.

[cttandy]

I love it, same people continue to talk about a perpetual motion machine. Perpetual motion has absolutely nothing to do with it. A perpetual motion machine, once started will continue to feed itself and not need any further input from anything. How can feeding a gasoline motor gasoline, or a diesel motor diesel, then suplimenting some else into the mixture be slightly even mis-construde as a perpetual motion machine.

All you are doing is the same effect of running a fuel additive in your vehicle. Only you are creating this additive with power that is already being made by your vehicle. So you are telling me your alternator doesn't run in your vehicle if this device isn't running in your vehicle. WRONG, it's still running and working away down there.

Everyone told Smokey Yunick what he did with the Feiro couldn't be done. He did it. People still claim the car isn't real, but it is. Don't shut down something that is new or different just because you lack understanding. And the fiero wasn't a Hydrogen car, but a very complicated setup that no one can still understand today. It was different, same thing we are dealing with here.

[GWChris]

The idea of getting more energy out than you put in is exactly the same concept as perpetual motion. In this case the concept is that the energy from gasoline will drive the engine, spin the alternator, generate electricity, electrolyze the water into hydrogen and oxygen - and that somehow after losing energy at every conversion when you burn that hydrogen back in the engine, you will come out ahead. Fantasy.

[J10_Jimbo]

[quote=GWChris]You do not need a review to determine if it could work - basic physics says it cannot. quote]

Just wondering, if I don't understand the laws of physics, will I get a ticket for violating them?

[cajun_lad]

I have in my hands a very extensive "how-to" instruction on building one of these HHO fuel cells. My supervisor bought it, and wants me to build it. From what I'm reading it seems feasible. These guys have done some homework. And if built right, the HHO generator acts more like a capacitor/battery than anything. Sure it's a small draw on the system at first, until it charges up, then it aids the system. I don't know, I have mixed feelings. But I will build it and test it and let you guys know the results. If it does work, than the only real conclusion I can come up with is that the auto industry does have its hands in the oil industry's pockets.

[pb]

The idea of getting more energy out than you put in is exactly the same concept as perpetual motion. ....

I think we all recognize that we are using energy to make a different form of energy. I think that many in this thread are debating the PE or Potential Energy of this transformation.

Is the PE of the hydrogen greater than the electricity produced by the already working alternator? Does hydrogen release greater energy than what was used to produce it?

I don't have a lab or facilities to answer this. I did find this "Hydrogen has the highest energy content of any common fuel by weight(about three times more than gasoline), but the lowest energy content by volume (about four times less than gasoline). It is the lightest element, and it is a gas at normal temperature and pressure." from here http://www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfa...eHydrogen.html

Anyway, whether this works or not, I don't know. It if does that would be sweet. If not it doesn't look like one would be out much for trying. I would like to hear from those on here that does try it for results.

Hey, if NASA uses liquid hydrogen as fuel for it's rockets & shuttles it has to be good right?

[backpack09]

I have no idea if this is feasible or not.

But all of you saying that energy must come from somewhere must remember that your alternator is spinning away generating electricity no matter what, why not use a few of those watts for something?

[cajun_lad]

And we're only talking 10-15 amps. Most subwoofer amplifiers draw that much if not more.

[olemisst]

Other Sources other than the altenator

Using the Frontal Lobe:

So it seems like the biggest argument is the use of electric current from the altenator. What if that came from another source such as a solar panel on the roof or little wind turbines.

Would any of these options produce enough energy to split the water?

[cajun_lad]

Using the Frontal Lobe:

So it seems like the biggest argument is the use of electric current from the altenator. What if that came from another source such as a solar panel on the roof or little wind turbines.

Would any of these options produce enough energy to split the water?

any 12vdc 20 amp source would suffice, as long as it was regulated and didn't fluctuate too much.

[GWChris]

I give up - have fun guys. The world has been awash in so much energy for a couple of generations now, that we cannot even notice it now, and we've lost all perspective on how much energy it takes to move a 4500lb vehicle. I bet your great-grandfather would have had a much better feel for it. A couple of solar cells? A little hydrogen? Pffft - go out and push that thing yourself and then come back and tell me what good that is gonna do. Just pi$$ing in the ocean.

[stump_breaker]

A lot of opinions from people have not actually tried it. It's not perpetual motion or (more accurately) over unity, in fact it's an inefficent process. You lose energy to heat plain and simple. I also didn't say it works. I said it generated enough to cause a fluctuation at idle on a v-8 engine.

Besides this is simple high school chemistry. No need to buy books or plans or anything like that.

You have an annode, cathode, conductive electrolyte and dc energy. It excites the water molecules and splits them into their molecular forms. It's supposed to supplement combustion not replace it.

Try it. At the very least it's good for a loud pop when you capture the gas in a bag and stick a lighter to it.