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  #41  
Old 11-02-2006, 09:19 AM
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BRUTUS BRUTUS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimjaw
I guess my question is ...after all the money you have spent on Axles, lifts, transmission and doubler why get cheap now? A high quality, balanced, warrantied drive shaft is peace of mind.

I don't see it as any compromise as far as quality goes. Did you read this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjlplat
I went through 2 different slip yokes before I decided to go square. My rig was pulling the slip yoke clean off the splines. They just don't make off the shelf slip yokes with enough slip for my rig. The only choices I had were custom splines, a limiting strap, or square. I went the cheap route, since I had already dropped a good $600 in the front driveshaft.

If that doesn't say it all I don't know what will.
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  #42  
Old 11-02-2006, 12:23 PM
HeepofaJeep HeepofaJeep is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown Bear
Speaking as a fellow ME in training, I would do the force analysis on this shaft: square vs round, butt weld vs milling, cross sectional area reduction, heat concentrations, and stress concentrations due to various machining efforts before I touched one piece of metal to another. These types of analysis, as you know, can be done quick and dirty without too much sweat, and might lead you to other avenues of thinking such as sleeving the yoke to the shaft. Two things I would be worried about are the stress concentrators induced by the yoke, and the sheer stress at the joint between the differing cross sectional areas of the yoke and the tubes. I might even do a quick and dirty analysis of the minimum I needed to resist the torsion that shaft will see if say a front wheel gets jammed.

But then again, I do these sorts of things for s###ts and giggles all the time

Holy CRAP! Why don't you do an FEA & full engineering report while you're at it. In the time it took you to do the calculations you could have just butt-welded it together & tested it in the real world

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtr
I am an engineer by education/trade and I have found that sometimes you have to try things out.
Burn it in......it was cheap fix anyway. Go wheelin.

No kiddng. Weld it up, and hit the trails. The time you've spent just typing up in this thread could have been used to build the driveline .

Toyota guys have been doing it for years-- it works, may not be the best balanced, but I doubt you are pre-running in 4wd .

Machining it would be cool, but I think there are other parts I would rather have machined if I had access to the equipment
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  #43  
Old 11-02-2006, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimjaw
I guess my question is ...after all the money you have spent on Axles, lifts, transmission and doubler why get cheap now? A high quality, balanced, warrantied drive shaft is peace of mind.

My rear driveshaft is a quality, balanced, warrantied CV shaft. I have dropped the entire weight (5k lbs) of my rig on the front driveshaft without any evidence of damage. The rear driveshaft can't handle anywhere near that amount of abuse.

When it comes to a rear shaft, It's important to ensure it is balanced if it will see any street driving. As far as a front shaft goes, it doesn't spin fast enough (Unless you've got slugs or full-time 4wd) to need balancing.
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  #44  
Old 11-02-2006, 07:00 PM
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Well, it could work, for awhile, or it could work forever. I'd feel more comfortable seeing numbers telling me it will still be working in 6 months time rather than finding out 3 miles deep on a trail full of mud. If you have the tools at your disposal, it seems like a shame to waste them.
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  #45  
Old 11-03-2006, 07:03 AM
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My 2 cents worth.. I like idea number one better, and would persue that course if I had the means, not so much for a strength reason, just that it could help to index and phase the driveshaft. From a strength standpoint, I'm quite certain that either technique will work and most likely not be the weak point in the drive line.


For the record.... There's way too much negative discussion in this thread by naysayers, when this technique has been in use for quite some time. This is getting reall close to the Duraspark/HEI debate. Both sides have merit. As far as all the "experts" talking about doing a failure analysis and such, Throw your numbers on the table. I'm doubtful that you can come up with even half of the variables, but give it a shot. The man asked a specific question, about a specific design element, not wether he shold buy a $1000 custom drive shaft. If you don't have an opinion specific to his question, then start your own thread to discuss the merits of a square drive shaft.

The very fact that it surprises some of you that someone would even consider it, means you aren't quite the vanguard of 4X4 fabrication data you seem to think. They have been in use, successfully, for quite some time.
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Last edited by DAHoyle : 11-03-2006 at 07:08 AM.
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  #46  
Old 11-03-2006, 10:55 AM
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what he said...........now quit web wheeling and go do it....
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  #47  
Old 11-03-2006, 11:02 AM
Arborigine Arborigine is offline
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How about heating the last 3 inches of the tube to a dull red and pounding a cone into it? Now it's round!
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  #48  
Old 11-03-2006, 02:05 PM
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Why bother, he's got a huge machine shop at his disposal. Machine the yoke where you want it to phase the driveshaft, and weld the crap out of it with a 220 mig or arc. I mean really burn that sucker in there. It might be helpful to pre-heat the yoke and use a high-nickel wire/rod, since you are welding to a cast yoke. Ask Tad about that, i'm not an expert.
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  #49  
Old 11-03-2006, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimjaw
OK, if its a square shaft going to a round yoke, mill the shaft to fit the yoke. First slip another smaller piece of square tube in the Small shaft. Drill and plug weld them on the flats. Then mill down the corners of the shaft to fit in the yoke and weld them together. This way there will be no loss of strength at the joint.

Then again, I am Capt Over Kill....

Capt Over Kill, I think you are missing the point of my question... Your answer still neglects MECHANICAL connection in favor of WELDED connection.

I have thought this over more and here is my final decision. I will mill the yoke to fit the 2x2 tube inside... seam weld the 2x2 to the yoke... grind a small portion of the outer flange (and some of the protruding weld) of the yoke square so that the 2.5x2.5 tube fits over BOTH the 2x2 and yoke where it is square and then seam weld the 2.5x2.5 (2" long) to the yoke and also seam weld it to the 2x2. Triple mechanical connection reinforced with welds.

Thanks for your help and ideas everyone.
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Last edited by BRUTUS : 11-03-2006 at 03:05 PM.
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  #50  
Old 11-03-2006, 03:06 PM
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yep. I like the idea of the collar over the milled and welded yoke, can't hurt to have another connection. Post up some pics of how it turns out.
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  #51  
Old 11-04-2006, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRUTUS
Capt Over Kill, I think you are missing the point of my question... Your answer still neglects MECHANICAL connection in favor of WELDED connection.

I have thought this over more and here is my final decision. I will mill the yoke to fit the 2x2 tube inside... seam weld the 2x2 to the yoke... grind a small portion of the outer flange (and some of the protruding weld) of the yoke square so that the 2.5x2.5 tube fits over BOTH the 2x2 and yoke where it is square and then seam weld the 2.5x2.5 (2" long) to the yoke and also seam weld it to the 2x2. Triple mechanical connection reinforced with welds.

Thanks for your help and ideas everyone.

I'm sure your junk will turn out far more balanced than mine, but that's pretty similar to what we did. We didn't have a mill at our disposal, so a grinder and a press had to do. No doubt you'll be happy with the end result.
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  #52  
Old 11-07-2006, 09:21 AM
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Slick Willie Slick Willie is offline
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Shoot, that'll work! Post up some pics too.
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  #53  
Old 11-07-2006, 08:34 PM
Arborigine Arborigine is offline
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Does anyone know of anyone using three-pointed tractor PTO shafting like this?
http://www.ptoshafts.com/newpage76.htm
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  #54  
Old 11-08-2006, 12:28 AM
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BassnTruck BassnTruck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arborigine
Does anyone know of anyone using three-pointed tractor PTO shafting like this?
http://www.ptoshafts.com/newpage76.htm

Probally not that one.

Transmittable horse power at 540 rpm is 35 HP, at 1000 rpm is 55 HP.
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  #55  
Old 11-08-2006, 09:36 AM
Bob Barry Bob Barry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassnTruck
Probally not that one.

Transmittable horse power at 540 rpm is 35 HP, at 1000 rpm is 55 HP.

Yeah; in low-range and first-gear, that shaft is seeing close to 2000 ft/lbs.

Square-tube shafts are a proven solution for off-roading, and as a noted benefit, you can let it churn away over the rocks where even a thick-wall round shaft is going to distort, twist and fail.
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  #56  
Old 11-08-2006, 10:28 AM
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I say push the idea envelope. To heck with the negative commments. It is your rig by god, build it like you want.
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  #57  
Old 11-08-2006, 02:48 PM
Alon K. Alon K. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arborigine
Does anyone know of anyone using three-pointed tractor PTO shafting like this?
http://www.ptoshafts.com/newpage76.htm
Yup. One of the rock\mud league competitors tried it out on his rig. The problem is those things have a top spinning speed of 1000 RPMs and that turns out to be about 25 MPH if you're on 37's with 4.56 gears. To slow.

http://jeepolog.com/with.php?pic=frog3/xt116.jpg
http://jeepolog.com/with.php?pic=frog3/N837.jpg
http://jeepolog.com/with.php?pic=frog3/N888.jpg
You can just see the hexagon shape in the last picture.

We did a write up on the rig in 2005, you're more than welcome to go take a peek. The write up is in Hebrew, but the pictures aren't.
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  #58  
Old 11-08-2006, 02:49 PM
Alon K. Alon K. is offline
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Oopsi, here's the link to the write up:
http://jeepolog.com/6.html
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  #59  
Old 11-08-2006, 07:04 PM
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Kenall Kenall is offline
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I came in late.

Grind the small till it fits inside the yoke.
weld the 2. for diff end.
Weld the large to another yoke for the Tcase end.

no way for the smaller tube to spin inside the larger?
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  #60  
Old 11-08-2006, 10:04 PM
Arborigine Arborigine is offline
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Thats cool, but i can't read it. Thanks
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