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Old 02-12-2017, 09:29 PM
NO6YHY NO6YHY is offline
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Exhaust Leak/Lifter Noise... Ideas???

Ok, I've just completed a 4 month job of replacing cam and lifters and freshening up just about everything else on the way there. Used an Elgin cam/lifter set with Brad Penn break-in oil. I soaked the lifters in the oil and assembly lubed the cam before installing. Also filled up the oil filter and drenched the valley with the oil. I tested lifter preload and went to a slightly shorter pushrod to get it down to the 0.06 range (wanted to stay conservative and not shorten too much). Torqued all rockers to 19 ft-lb, at TDC for each one.

Fired it up yesterday and it started immediately, timing was a bit retarded at first, then advanced it and it hums like a well-oiled sewing machine. Only problem is a noticeable tick coming from the passenger side. This was very audible from the get go, then after the 25 minute cam break-in period it seemed to go away. Started the car again today and it ticked at first, then died down and went away after a minute or two. Revved the engine and the tick came back, then lingered a bit, then slowly faded out. Comes back usually whenever I rev the engine, then sometimes stays, sometimes goes.

What do you think? I will say that I had removed the passenger side exhaust manifold during the repair process, thinking I would have to replace the head. Put it back on with new gaskets, torqued it down, exhaust pipe is metal-to-metal against the heat riser valve. Same as I had it before. So there COULD be an exhaust leak on this side, but I've tried the rubber-hose-to-ear test and can't hear anything anywhere (also can't hear any lifter noise through the rubber hose). Can't see any smoke either.

So I'm stumped. Any ideas? The intermittency of the sound makes me think/hope/pray it is not a lifter or mechanical issue. Oil pressure is at 60 so seems good there.
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Last edited by NO6YHY : 02-12-2017 at 09:37 PM.
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  #2  
Old 02-13-2017, 08:56 AM
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bkilby bkilby is offline
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My exhaust is metal to metal with the heat riser as well. It leaks. They do make gaskets for it. I haven't replaced mine because it's not street ready yet.
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Old 02-13-2017, 09:36 AM
NO6YHY NO6YHY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkilby
My exhaust is metal to metal with the heat riser as well. It leaks. They do make gaskets for it. I haven't replaced mine because it's not street ready yet.

Do you get that ticking noise then? I think when I last put the manifold on ten years ago I sprayed some copper coat on the heat riser and maybe that's why it didn't leak before, or maybe I had the heat riser turned the other way around and it just mated better. It gives me hope that the sound goes away after a minute; maybe they'll "break in" to each other. I don't think it's worth trying to improve this until I can find a new manifold with longer studs so I can fit the donut on, and I have spent about my last dollar on this jeep for awhile...

I haven't driven this thing out of the driveway yet so there's hope that something will settle out.
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Old 02-13-2017, 12:20 PM
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bkilby bkilby is offline
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It does tick and blows exhaust on the firewall. I'll get to it someday.
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Old 02-13-2017, 12:33 PM
joe joe is offline
 
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If you're suspecting an exh leak. Get a piece of garden, heater etc hose. Put one end to your ear and move the other end around to all the exh connections, mating surfaces. If there is a leak you'll hear it.
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  #6  
Old 02-13-2017, 08:18 PM
NO6YHY NO6YHY is offline
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Ran it again today, still can't locate any exhaust leak if there is one. I've done the hose test and put it all over the place. Oh well, the engine runs great otherwise. Puts a smile on my face to hear it.
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  #7  
Old 02-13-2017, 09:39 PM
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FSJunkie FSJunkie is offline
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Exhaust leaks get louder as engine load increases. Valve noise does not.
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  #8  
Old 02-13-2017, 10:23 PM
WrenchMonkey WrenchMonkey is offline
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Trick I head of recently is to kill the engine, connect your shop vacuum or house vacuum hose to the tail pipe, depending on the fit you may wanna create a seal somehow, and if you can isolate the vacuum noise, like around a corner or something that helps, turn it on and head to the front, you should definitely be able to tell then.
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  #9  
Old 02-16-2017, 11:04 AM
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serehill serehill is offline
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yeppers

This is a lifter. Exhaust will not fluctuate with rpm then come & go. It should be almost unoticeable at idle & louder under acceleration if it were exhaust. One of the pre-loads are incorrect or a lifter has failed Possible rocker arm issue.
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If you can't make it better why waste your time. No use repeating the orignal mistakes. I'm to old to push it that's why.

Last edited by serehill : 02-16-2017 at 07:27 PM.
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  #10  
Old 02-16-2017, 12:22 PM
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44BZ 44BZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by serehill
This is a lifter. Exhaust will no fluctuate with wit rpm & come & go.it should be almost not noticeable at idle & louder under acceleration if it were exhaust. ne of the preloads are incorrect or a lifter has failed Possible rocker arm issue.

I'm no expert, but this is where I'd be looking and I wouldn't be running it until opening the top to check especially after all the work you've done. I had what I thought was a lifter tick and prepared myself for replacing a bad one. Once I opened it up I found that the lifters were fine, but one of the pushrods had wallowed out the rocker, which allowed the pushrod to bounce around in there. Luckily nothing but the rocker was damaged and I happened to have a spare set of rockers for the 327. Swapped them out and it was good as new.
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:46 AM
NO6YHY NO6YHY is offline
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Ok thanks. I finally drove it today and it is definitely much louder on acceleration. I guess I'll pull the valve cover off and check things.
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Old 02-17-2017, 09:46 PM
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serehill serehill is offline
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Wait re-read the thread if it's louder on acceleration then it could be an exhaust leak!!!!!!!
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360 ci 727 with
Comp cams 270 h
NP208
Edlebrock performer intake
Holley 4180
Msd total multi spark.
4" rusty's springs
Member, FSJ Prissy Restoration Association

If you can't make it better why waste your time. No use repeating the orignal mistakes. I'm to old to push it that's why.
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  #13  
Old 02-18-2017, 09:27 PM
NO6YHY NO6YHY is offline
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Yeah the noise, whatever it is, really comes to life when I accelerate. I feel like it's an exhaust leak. Going to take the valve cover off pretty soon anyway since a little oil is seeping out (of course) so I'll double check the rockers and push rods.
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  #14  
Old 02-18-2017, 10:48 PM
440sixpack 440sixpack is offline
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What rockers are you running?

Did you check the preload on every lifter ? if not it's entirely possible you have some with less preload than others which could cause noise. variation in valve stem height is common.

It's also possible you have a bum lifter. today we have basically 2 lifters to choose from , one is okay and the other is junk. all makes come from the same sources. I use only Harland Sharp because I know they're the okay ones, there are other brands selling the same lifters but I'm not sure who.
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Old 02-21-2017, 10:12 PM
NO6YHY NO6YHY is offline
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That's interesting about the lifters, 440. These are from Elgin.

Took the valve covers off and noticed that I could wiggle a couple of the rockers. Checked preload on those and they are definitely preloading however, about 3/4 of a turn past tension to torque the bolt. I then cranked it while watching the rockers go up and down and everything seemed fine.

All this, combined with the fact that it is much louder on acceleration than otherwise makes me rule out lifters/mechanical issues.
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Old 02-23-2017, 12:24 AM
440sixpack 440sixpack is offline
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your problem may not be with the valve train but maybe you should check the preload at some time correctly if you haven't. .020 - .060 on the base circle of the cam.

Much louder on acceleration sounds like an exhaust leak. could also be a valve not closing all the way or a collapsed piston from improper clearance. and a host of other things. but I'd be positive it wasn't the exhaust before I looked for bigger trouble.
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Old 02-23-2017, 03:33 PM
NO6YHY NO6YHY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 440sixpack
your problem may not be with the valve train but maybe you should check the preload at some time correctly if you haven't. .020 - .060 on the base circle of the cam.

Much louder on acceleration sounds like an exhaust leak. could also be a valve not closing all the way or a collapsed piston from improper clearance. and a host of other things. but I'd be positive it wasn't the exhaust before I looked for bigger trouble.

I checked the preload during assembly. It's a little under 0.06.
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  #18  
Old 02-23-2017, 03:35 PM
NO6YHY NO6YHY is offline
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I figured it out. It was that little rusty thing on the intake that lets warm air go to the choke. Saw a little black streak coming out of it so I put the rubber hose next to it and heard the leak. I had taken it off to repaint the intake and couldn't find a gasket for it, so I just cut a paper one. Guess that didn't work. Anyone know of where to get a gasket for this thing or some other solution, like capping it off? I'm not even sure what it's called.
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  #19  
Old 02-23-2017, 05:16 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NO6YHY
I figured it out. It was that little rusty thing on the intake that lets warm air go to the choke. Saw a little black streak coming out of it so I put the rubber hose next to it and heard the leak. I had taken it off to repaint the intake and couldn't find a gasket for it, so I just cut a paper one. Guess that didn't work. Anyone know of where to get a gasket for this thing or some other solution, like capping it off? I'm not even sure what it's called.
That's your choke heat tube. Gasket is FEL-PRO # 72590 ($1.22 at rock auto)
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Old 02-23-2017, 11:32 PM
NO6YHY NO6YHY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rang-a-stang
That's your choke heat tube. Gasket is FEL-PRO # 72590 ($1.22 at rock auto)

Awesome. Thank you.
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