What fog lights are you guys running?

[Mass]

I'm curious as to what you guys are running for fog lights/driving lights.

I'd like something that will accept high wattage bulbs without melting and retains the factory rectangle look and size.

Also not looking for something over $100.



I've already done the h4 80w/100w and relay harness conversion and holy cow what a difference. I light up highway signs and markers about a mile away.

The extra light is nice but its real dark from the bumper out to about 25 feet when I have the high beams on. I do a lot of rural highway driving late at night so would appreciate any extra light.

[joe]

Sounds like you're looking for driving lights not fog? I don't run'em on my FSJ's or any car actually. Quality headlamps and fog lamps(not to be used together at the same time) work just fine for my needs. I have run aux lamps, fog and driving lamp back in my racecar and rally days. Only thing I run driving lamps on today are on my sidecar outfits. I really like Hella 500's. Quality lamps at reasonable prices.
Thing to keep in mind about aux lamps... It's NOT about mega retina burner power/wattage. It's all about the quality design of the reflector and the lens getting the light to where it should go unless you're squirrel hunting and lighting up the trees is a good thing for you and the locals aren't shooting at you for blinding them.
Think as 500HP don't mean squat with crap gearing/traction and you can't get the power to the ground. For a cost factor I would research Hella's.

[Mass]

Hey Joe, thanks for the input. I think I'm looking for fog lights. They usually have an almost diffuser type lens which sort of "floods" the light which is more what I'm wanting down low. I took your advise and looked into Hella. I'm sold on the Hella 550 fog lights.

I couldn't ask for better driving light performance. They have a crisp cutoff almost like HID projectors. The last thing I want to do is blind everyone around me. My philosophy is if I can see headlights or tail lights then my high beams are off regardless of how far away you are.

When I have high beams on I can see a mile ahead but down low is dark. That's where I'm wanting some extra light when running 60-70 MPH.

If the Hella reflectors are as good as I hope I'm kinda thinking about using 100w bulbs in the fog lights and wiring it in series on low beam and parallel on high. Not sure how the beam pattern will change. Just need to experiment.

[Mr Carts]

Just Stock bulbs in the FSJ for now.

In my old Jeepster I used Hella H4's with 55-100 watt bulbs and Hella 550 driving lights with 55 watt bulbs hook together via relays on high beam.

A Pair of United Pacific Yellow fog lights 55 watt bulbs were use as daytime lights that were on any time the ignition was on.

In total with High beams, driving lights and fog lights on there was 420 watts of lights perfect for the back roads I normally drive.

I installed a 120amp Alternator and oversized wiring and relays to keep from melting wiring.

This set up will eventually be duplicated on the FSJ but using the square Hella headlights.

[joe]

Hey Joe, thanks for the input. I think I'm looking for fog lights. They usually have an almost diffuser type lens which sort of "floods" the light which is more what I'm wanting down low. I took your advise and looked into Hella. I'm sold on the Hella 550 fog lights.

No idea what a "diffuser type" lens is? Botton line: fog lamps are yellow, driving lights are white. Both come in either wide beam or pencil beam. I run a pencil beam on the drivers side to throw light down the road illuminating "my" lane. And a wide beam on the pass side to illuminate the edge/shoulder of the road. Yellow for fog cause yellow doesn't reflect back off the moisture and snow blind you. You want them mounted as low as possible/practical. On rally cars I've always mounted them below the bumper. You want to light up the road not the moisture between your car and the tree tops. You run 60-70mph in fog??? Yikes you guys must have different definitions of fog? I personally don't think you need 100w bulbs. I suggest you first try the standard 50/60w bulbs and if you feel the need for more upgrade the bulbs and then go with ceramic sockets. I forget what FSJ you have and still think you're looking for "driving lights" not fog lamps. If you're car has old school 7" round headlights you can prolly save yourself some grief and money by just swapping to Hella "E-code" (Euro-code) headlights in stock H/L wattage. E-codes have great reflectors and lenses for a normal persons road use. I run'em in my 70 Chev C10 and they're the best stock style replacement headlamps I've ever run on any round headlight rig.
No I DO NOT run 70mph in fog. I learned decades ago: Don't matter how much money you spend on high zoot lighting, it's a fools gamble to try to out drive your headlamps.
Thinking by what you mean by "diffuser" is maybe what E-codes have. The lens is designed to have a cut-off at the upper end to not blind oncoming cars as much, but you still gotta aim them correctly.
Best of luck!

[Mass]

I hope nobody tries to drive 60-70 mph in the fog. I see how what I said can be confusing. Here in Texas dense fog is only a few times a year.

That speed is clear weather, just want to throw some more light on the ground directly in front when I've got high beams on.

Not looking to drive like I'm on an ILS instrument approach in zero visibility IFR conditions.



I've got an 89 gw. headlights are rectangle so I'm partial to the rectangle lights. Whatever I choose I'll try the 55w bulbs first. Has anyone mounted fog lights on a fsj below the air dam? The factory fog light location is only a few inches lower the factory headlights.



Mr carts - How do you like the 550's? I'm reluctant to have more than 4 lights total on the front. I think you can only have 4 lights here in Texas including headlights and fog lights. ..after that you need to cover them up? I dunno.



Hella makes 3 flavors of the 550.

- Clear driving
- Clear fog
- Amber fog
The fog lights have ridges which I believe will diffuse the light slightly compared to the cleaner lens on the driving lights. Maybe I'm thinking driving lights will just project too far ahead like pencil beams.

[nograin]

I agree, lots of good insight Joe. Thanks.

Mass. I don't know if diffuse is the technically correct word but I know what you mean. I tried Cibie Tango 40s Fog clear. My impression is fog means just that; extra light spread very close in front. Expectation is these is for crawling through thick fog. With Cibie ece headlight's, I found them no help in light fog or light rain or adding anything on tight wooded roads.

There is definately huge variations in light patterns between specific lamps. For example Cibie shows their Airport 35 fog to have a narrower pattern than the Tango 40s. Granted these drawings are too some extent marketing BS but gives us an idea of the differences.
Illustrations here: http://www.talbotco.com/cibie_aux_lighting.htm

For what you first said you wanted, I think are generally called 'spread beam' driving light, or a 'cornering light'.

My thoughts are this.
First that at 60-70 mph, what is happening in front of the hood isn't where you're eyes should be. But if its totally black, it could be disconcerting. So see if the aiming and different bulb and/or housing can address that.
I replaced one of the Cibie H4 housings with a Hella Vision Plus last year. So far, its unimpresive. I've used the same in 7" round and been satisfied. I'm going to change to a better bulb (same wattage) and re-aim. I know the Hella H4 headlights for motorcycle use have a relatively narrow beam pattern and too much seperation between low and high beams for most uses. (I had a set, and when lows were correct, highs were pointed too high).

Then if the high beams do what they need to, use driving lights for a little more distance or spread. This way you don't feel the need to turn them on every time the high beams are on.

The foglight circuit will need to be reworked if used for something else. Foglights are wired to be on only when the lowbeams are on.
Also, check the sizes of the auxilery light housings before buying. There's not a lot of room (depth) using the factory mounting brackets.

*Comparison of 7" round Cibie and Hella E-code headlight patterns:

https://www.jkowners.com/forum/electrical-lighting-tech-dept/43971-hids-cibies-ipf-headlights-2.html

(No info on the Hella "vision plus" lamps which different)

[Mass]

I really really appreciate everyone's feedback.

I like the cibie "charlie 950 fog" light pattern from the link you provided. But.. I don't want the small area in front of the vehicle to be brighter than whats 100'-500' down the road when I'm using high beams.
So I guess I'll try the driving lights aimed correctly with the high beams on. I'm too in love with the low beam performance of my headlights I don't really want to rock the boat with re aiming or trying different housings all together. I'm using hella h4 bulbs. You're absolutely right, my eyes should not be looking that close when going 70 mph. It is purely mentally disconcerting when the sight picture looking out has a dark area directly in front of you on the ground.

Do they still make Cibie lights? The patterns look really good. I googled around and can't really find em. I see over priced used ones and the "new" ones are several hundred dollars. :/


I'm fine with messing with the wiring. I'll be upgrading to heavier gauge wire and relay harness either way. Reworking the wires coming from a switch is no problem.

[nograin]

Not alot of US retailers.

Daniel Stern Lighting is one.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/products/products.html

Headlight Services, but they dont seem to stock.

http://headlightservices.com/Headlamps.html

Aardvark if they are still in business

http://www.talbotco.com/cibie_main_frameset.htm

Joe may have some other suggestions from his rally experience.

So you know. Cibie and Marchal are both owned by Valeo

There was an interesting comparison of auxilery lights in Autralian 4WD Monthly. Webserch that and "Driving Light Wars" together should land you the pdf reprint. Its 10 years old and the other side of the world so figure only the Hella and Cibie ones were available here but still interesting.

Another good source of info is Candlepower Forums. They're very strict about legality when making recommendations for use on public roads highways but also a low tolerance for marketing BS.

Yes. Some of the Cibies can be pricey. Again Joe may have more insight.

[tgreese]

I recall the most important objective for fog lights is to mount them low, so that all the reflected light does not shine back at the driver. Basically the front of the car is shading you from the lamp's reflection. And the lenses are made to put intense light as a blob on the road surface right in front of you (called a diffuser here?), since you won't be driving fast in fog anyway.

[Mass]

tgreese, I believe the lower the better for fog lights is right. Joe said he mounts them below the bumper on his rally cars.

I love learning new things and I'm learning a LOT about reflectors, lenses, LUX, and isocandela plots the past few days. It's nice getting real world knowledge from you guys. Joe's idea of using both a pencil beam and a wide beam is intriguing. Sounds like he's been around the block

VERY cool find nograin! Great comparison.

https://www.highperformancelighting.ca/LIGHTFORCEc.pdf

Looks like cibie oscar sc is exactly what I need even though they are round. You see the light pattern on those things?!
But I'll be darned if I spend that much on some lights right now. plus I can't go a few months without a new windshield chip. Rock haulers around Dallas don't give a flip if they spew rocks every time they hit a bump. DPS doesn't seem to care either. I'll be seriously looking at these next year when I have a better budget for the Jeep. Right now I'm looking down the barrel of needing a rebuild on my 700r4.

I've only ever knowingly bought Valeo clutches. Seems like good quality.

I'm getting talked into a 3 month old pair of IPF 868 lights by a friend though. They seem good and at $60. The price is a bargain. Should I stay away from IPF/ARB? They crap? If not I think I'll go ahead and buy them. Worst case I get my lunch money back.

[tgreese]

My boss used to be a dealer for Cibie' ... FWIW, Oscars are huge IIRC. There may be a super Oscar too.

[nograin]

Interesting discussion on auxillery and supplemental lighting in this thread,

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?341244-Replacement-Supplemental-lighting-for-H13-based-headlamps

starting around post 7.

[Mass]

I read through that this morning. Thank you for that. Interesting read. When I get time I'll browse around candlepower some more.

I didn't even look at the dimensions of the oscars. I saw the price and I was done lol

[DarkMonohue]

I'll throw in my standing recommendation for Cibie H4 headlamps. One of the many reasons I like them so much is that the vertical separation between low and high beam is not excessive, as it is in Hella H4s. In other words, when your low beams are aimed correctly, so are your highs.

The light distribution of a Cibie headlamp is by far the best of any H4 headlamp I've ever seen. They put out a beautifully even blanket of light up to a crisply defined cutoff. It's sharp enough that I can (and do) run 80/100w bulbs without getting flashed, because the light is going toward the road ahead, not into oncoming drivers' eyes.

A set of Cibie headlamps does cost more, but only once, and they are absolutely worth it. Set them up with good quality (not gimmick) bulbs and relays, aim them properly, and they will likely eliminate any perceived need for accessory lights.

Relays are obviously mandatory. The stock system can handle just about enough current to run a jar full of lightning bugs. Anything more costs precious lumens and invites a fire.