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View Poll Results: Which manufacturers Diesel should I go with?? See the thread below before answering
Ford Diesel Engine 4 3.54%
GM Diesel Engine 10 8.85%
Dodge/Cummins Diesel 85 75.22%
Other/Foreign 14 12.39%
Voters: 113. You may not vote on this poll

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  #81  
Old 12-09-2010, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Badawg
Have you considered a marine dsl? I have done swaps to boats with dual marine Gm 350s. Engines used were Yanmar 4 cyl Turbos.

It could be expensive to buy a new one, but the chances of finding a used one is pretty good.
where do the used yanmar engines come from? wrecked tractors?
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  #82  
Old 12-09-2010, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poolmike
Cummins is the only real industrial diesel out of the big three. Powerstroke and Duramax are both good engines for trucks, but at the end of the day they are not built for industrial applications.

A 4BT is a perfect match for a FSJ. A 6 would be great if you can make it work.

good point, and the mechanical ones to boot, from what I have read the electronic versions have been cheapened considerably and dodge may have a body now that lasts as long as their engine!
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  #83  
Old 04-14-2011, 12:33 AM
tndonor tndonor is offline
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You can adapt the 4l80e to a Cummins with a GM auto adapter. They are going for around 500 give or take. If you put a 6BT in front of it, you will really have to leave it stockish.....they cant take the power (torque) and be expected to live long. You will also need to think of a torque convertor with a lower stall speed for the Diesel application. You can build a 4L80e to handle power....it is just $$$$ and you might as well get a 47rh/re at that point.

If you put a 4B in front of it, no worries.

You will still need a stand alone controller if your unit didnt have the stand alone from the factory.

My 0.02
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  #84  
Old 04-14-2011, 12:35 AM
tndonor tndonor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poolmike
Cummins is the only real industrial diesel out of the big three. Powerstroke and Duramax are both good engines for trucks, but at the end of the day they are not built for industrial applications.

A 4BT is a perfect match for a FSJ. A 6 would be great if you can make it work.


Yes sir.....they are the only engine (mentioned for this purpose) to get a medium duty rating based on expected service life
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  #85  
Old 04-14-2011, 06:22 AM
iroc86 iroc86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poolmike
Cummins is the only real industrial diesel out of the big three. Powerstroke and Duramax are both good engines for trucks, but at the end of the day they are not built for industrial applications.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tndonor
Yes sir.....they are the only engine (mentioned for this purpose) to get a medium duty rating based on expected service life

While not one of the Big Three, the medium-duty Isuzu 4BD1(-T) started life as combination industrial/truck engine in the late '70s, used in everything from excavators and boats to box trucks and Land Rovers. A manual GM transmission adapter exists for these industrial Isuzus, too.
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  #86  
Old 04-15-2011, 11:34 AM
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Eugene 1 Eugene 1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iroc86
While not one of the Big Three, the medium-duty Isuzu 4BD1(-T) started life as combination industrial/truck engine in the late '70s, used in everything from excavators and boats to box trucks and Land Rovers. A manual GM transmission adapter exists for these industrial Isuzus, too.

Isuzu makes the Duramax don't they ? or designed or something like that ?
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  #87  
Old 04-15-2011, 03:02 PM
Pavementsux91XJ Pavementsux91XJ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigger4X
It still leaves me wondering if I would be better off holding out for a 24V instead of a 12V. Again I'm not looking for rompin stompin power, but wanting some power in reserve for hills and towing which is gonna serve my MPGs and power needs the best? Is it worth it so save money on the upfront purchase of a 12V and throw a bit extra at it to wake it up? I was told that the late '98 thru 2000 5.9s were 24V which also meant they had a computer on them, but it could be eliminated by by swapping out to a P-pump which makes the entire engine mechanical, save two wires for power only.

I'd go with the 12 valve if your not going with a full race application. I have driven VE and P pumped 12 valces and I can tell you that my 24V with a chip will run circles around them BUT... The install would be much more complex, plus, if your going to P pump the 24 V, you would lose most (not all, but most) of the reason for getting the 24 valve. Add into that that most 98 and 99 and some 00 and 01 24v should be out of the question due to the "53" code brazil block that likes to crack and your going to have a hard time finding a good one. I can tell you that a bone stock 4wd 2500 dodge extra cab long bed has power to spare with the P pump, which means in something as light as a j-truck, that engine will have PLENTY of power.

Something for everybody to keep in mind though. These diesel engines were built to tow in trucks, or for the economy in cars. Other than the new CRD engines, they are not rocket ships. Bone stock they are only going to rev to about 3 grand and it will take them awhile to get there. Its in their design and the fuel they use. I'm not going with a diesel swap, even though I am a diesel mechanic, for just that reason. Gas engines are for horsepower and fast revs, diesels are for torque and pulling. Use your Jeep for mud much? You'll be watching your turbos puke up there turbine wheels. Live in a cold place? startings gonna be fun. I hate to burst anybodys bubble, but those diesels you see in the magazines have a ton of $$$ put into them to make them handle that power. And if your not a diesel mechanic, repairs are more expensive. If the injection pump goes out or starts leaking which will happen to the older pumps when run on the new standard ULSD diesel or bio-juice, your looking at $1000 plus to fix it for parts alone.

I'll get off my soap box now. I've just seen way too many people buy diesels to be cool and think that out of the box they act like the ones in the magazines only to end up either selling them because they can't afford the repairs or blow them up because they don't know what theyre doing.
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  #88  
Old 04-15-2011, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavementsux91XJ
I

Something for everybody to keep in mind though. These diesel engines were built to tow in trucks, or for the economy in cars. Other than the new CRD engines, they are not rocket ships. Bone stock they are only going to rev to about 3 grand and it will take them awhile to get there. Its in their design and the fuel they use. I'm not going with a diesel swap, even though I am a diesel mechanic, for just that reason. Gas engines are for horsepower and fast revs, diesels are for torque and pulling. Use your Jeep for mud much? You'll be watching your turbos puke up there turbine wheels. Live in a cold place? startings gonna be fun. I hate to burst anybodys bubble, but those diesels you see in the magazines have a ton of $$$ put into them to make them handle that power. And if your not a diesel mechanic, repairs are more expensive. If the injection pump goes out or starts leaking which will happen to the older pumps when run on the new standard ULSD diesel or bio-juice, your looking at $1000 plus to fix it for parts alone.

I'll get off my soap box now. I've just seen way too many people buy diesels to be cool and think that out of the box they act like the ones in the magazines only to end up either selling them because they can't afford the repairs or blow them up because they don't know what theyre doing.
Great reality check post.
I'm not a mechanic dsl or otherwise but have owned a few and worked dsl boats for years. Dsl motors are great for pull power and mpgs as mentioned above but there is "nothing" cheap about dsl's. Be it buy-in, adapters, stock parts, hipo parts, shop time, etc etc Yeah mpgs are impressive compared to gas but if filling your gas tank for $100 is hurting you then you can't afford a dsl swap either. Save your swap money for gaso. I love dsl's but they're not for the 'light of wallet' If you really want to swap buy whatever you can afford in good condition regardless of flavor, deal with the swap costs then deal with the other issues as they come up.
Yup those magazine dsl trucks you see at the drap strip or pulling buildings off their foundation are way cool and prolly cost more than your house. Those aren't getting 400,000 miles between rebuilds either.

Before dsl dreaming know your litations: financially and mechanically.
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  #89  
Old 04-15-2011, 07:53 PM
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lobie lobie is offline
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Don't understand why y'all say a diesel is more difficult to work on. They are the most simple motor in the world. Yes they cost more to repair but you get what you pay for. Reliablity. Why do we want a diesel from a mag. We don't. We want something with reliability and mild torque. We're not trying to pull sleds. This isn't the compition diesel form. As far as the ULSD goes just use 2 stroke oil as a supplement. You can read about it on the cummins forum. Not a big deal.

If anyone is interested in diesels.... Go for it. Do some research. Go to 4bt swaps or the cummins forum. And read.
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  #90  
Old 04-16-2011, 12:02 PM
Pavementsux91XJ Pavementsux91XJ is offline
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I hope nobody takes my post as a "Don't do it or I'll think your stupid" post. I'm just trying to give the "con" side of the argument. I personally do think older diesels (tier 0, 1, 2) are easier to work on than gas engines. There are plenty of reasons to do a diesel swap. I am not the utmost authority on diesel swaps, but I am a journeyman equipment mechanic in charge of a fleet of diesel powered trucks and tractors. I've worked on cats, cummins, deere, internationals, kubotas, yanmars, etc. My goal there was kind of a reality check. They cost big $$. I can rebuild an injection pump, but they are alot more complex than carbs. For instance, you rebuild a stanadyme pump like are on the Deeres and Internationals and you put the governer in backwards (very easy to do) and those engines will rev to 8000 RPM with NO way to shut them down until they finally blow up. My gf just bought an old ram 50 with a leaky pump. That pump costs 1200, parts alone. We only got it because I know a seal kit is $100 and I can rebuild the Bosch VE pumps. The 2 stroke oil trick works to prolong the life of the mechanical parts of the pumps, not the seals. The new ULSD diesel is actually B2.5 (2.5% bio diesel) The older ones will evantually leak, trust me, I have a fleet of 50 tractors and the older pumps (pre 94ish) have puked their guts out.

Like I said, I don't want to say dont do it, but I am saying, be prepared, do your homework, and make sure its what you really want before you dump big $$ into a swap and regret it.

I just realized I am completely hijacking this post, my bad!
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  #91  
Old 04-16-2011, 12:12 PM
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Bill Moore Bill Moore is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavementsux91XJ
I hope nobody takes my post as a "Don't do it or I'll think your stupid" post. I'm just trying to give the "con" side of the argument. I personally do think older diesels (tier 0, 1, 2) are easier to work on than gas engines. There are plenty of reasons to do a diesel swap. I am not the utmost authority on diesel swaps, but I am a journeyman equipment mechanic in charge of a fleet of diesel powered trucks and tractors. I've worked on cats, cummins, deere, internationals, kubotas, yanmars, etc. My goal there was kind of a reality check. They cost big $$. I can rebuild an injection pump, but they are alot more complex than carbs. For instance, you rebuild a stanadyme pump like are on the Deeres and Internationals and you put the governer in backwards (very easy to do) and those engines will rev to 8000 RPM with NO way to shut them down until they finally blow up. My gf just bought an old ram 50 with a leaky pump. That pump costs 1200, parts alone. We only got it because I know a seal kit is $100 and I can rebuild the Bosch VE pumps. The 2 stroke oil trick works to prolong the life of the mechanical parts of the pumps, not the seals. The new ULSD diesel is actually B2.5 (2.5% bio diesel) The older ones will evantually leak, trust me, I have a fleet of 50 tractors and the older pumps (pre 94ish) have puked their guts out.

Like I said, I don't want to say dont do it, but I am saying, be prepared, do your homework, and make sure its what you really want before you dump big $$ into a swap and regret it.

I just realized I am completely hijacking this post, my bad!

I appreciated your posts, what it said to me is, buy the right engine, put it in for the right reasons, and here are some tips. I had this conversation with a buddy of mine thats doing some of the conversion work I dont have time for at the moment. He builds rock crawlers and doesnt understand the logic of the 4bt, he wants big gas engines, or built ones and horsepower. Im looking for durability, miles per gallon, flexibility of fuel supply, simplicity of design and no electronics, like to put in air starts, but the cost is significant. I baby my vehicles and maintain them well, but not a perfectionist, although unless there is a flaw, or catastrophic failure, I figure a 4bt repower is a lifetime conversion. I like that idea. Plus it has plenty of power to do the job, all the while getting 25 to 30 mpg.
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  #92  
Old 04-18-2011, 06:36 AM
iroc86 iroc86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eugene 1
Isuzu makes the Duramax don't they ? or designed or something like that ?

Yes, that's right. This page describes the GM-Isuzu relationship pretty well.
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  #93  
Old 04-19-2011, 09:17 PM
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seamus seamus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavementsux91XJ
I'd go with the 12 valve if your not going with a full race application. I have driven VE and P pumped 12 valces and I can tell you that my 24V with a chip will run circles around them BUT... The install would be much more complex, plus, if your going to P pump the 24 V, you would lose most (not all, but most) of the reason for getting the 24 valve. Add into that that most 98 and 99 and some 00 and 01 24v should be out of the question due to the "53" code brazil block that likes to crack and your going to have a hard time finding a good one. I can tell you that a bone stock 4wd 2500 dodge extra cab long bed has power to spare with the P pump, which means in something as light as a j-truck, that engine will have PLENTY of power.

Something for everybody to keep in mind though. These diesel engines were built to tow in trucks, or for the economy in cars. Other than the new CRD engines, they are not rocket ships. Bone stock they are only going to rev to about 3 grand and it will take them awhile to get there. Its in their design and the fuel they use. I'm not going with a diesel swap, even though I am a diesel mechanic, for just that reason. Gas engines are for horsepower and fast revs, diesels are for torque and pulling. Use your Jeep for mud much? You'll be watching your turbos puke up there turbine wheels. Live in a cold place? startings gonna be fun. I hate to burst anybodys bubble, but those diesels you see in the magazines have a ton of $$$ put into them to make them handle that power. And if your not a diesel mechanic, repairs are more expensive. If the injection pump goes out or starts leaking which will happen to the older pumps when run on the new standard ULSD diesel or bio-juice, your looking at $1000 plus to fix it for parts alone.

I'll get off my soap box now. I've just seen way too many people buy diesels to be cool and think that out of the box they act like the ones in the magazines only to end up either selling them because they can't afford the repairs or blow them up because they don't know what theyre doing.

Ve pumped 12v's can be strong performers, especially if they are in a vehicle that weighs 2500 lbs less than my 2005 3500.
The real advantage of the 12v is simplicity and longevity, neither of which can be applied to the common rail engines.

My 12v should be about 350 hp 600+lbft when everything is done, it should be a reasonable performer
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  #94  
Old 09-05-2011, 05:58 PM
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lobie lobie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seamus
Ve pumped 12v's can be strong performers, especially if they are in a vehicle that weighs 2500 lbs less than my 2005 3500.
The real advantage of the 12v is simplicity and longevity, neither of which can be applied to the common rail engines.

My 12v should be about 350 hp 600+lbft when everything is done, it should be a reasonable performer

Agree. The 12v is a great engine. I am using the VE pump and think it is plenty for the application. The p pump is just an added bonus!
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  #95  
Old 10-13-2011, 10:40 PM
ReevesDiesel ReevesDiesel is offline
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Wow, there are a ton of opinions on this thread. I guess the reality is, it all boils down to brand preference, all of the engine choices discussed are excellent engines and will render years of reliable service.

I have experience with multiple conversions and I have not had the courage to use a 4l80e, to my knowledge the entire transmission is designed for high revving gas/diesel engines. I guess I fear I will never get the shift points in the right place. I typically use the 4bt or 6bt, I have installed both engines in fsj's. So I opt for the 47RH and the TF727.

There is no doubt in my mind that the early Cummins engine are as simple as they come. With minimul effort scourcing parts does not have to be overly expensive.

If at all possible I would recommend seeking out running vehicles with the different engine choices you are contemplating. At the very least hear them crank up and run. Ultimatley, I earge you to get behind the wheel of them and see how the different choices feel to you. It could make all the difference!
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  #96  
Old 10-14-2011, 05:12 AM
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The PIG Smith The PIG Smith is offline
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Welcome Aaron Reeves!
I've been watching your projects on Facebook and very impressed with you work and attention to detail.
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  #97  
Old 10-14-2011, 07:46 AM
ReevesDiesel ReevesDiesel is offline
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Oh, thanks man. We sure have fun, it does not always go as planed but we always make it work!
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  #98  
Old 10-14-2011, 08:17 AM
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I'm holding out for the GM 4.5 V8. Any rumors?
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  #99  
Old 10-20-2011, 06:48 PM
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Isuzu 4bd fans should check out the engine that went into this Ford pickup...vicinity of page 36 in the string....mega power and 30 mpg. Also as discussed in the Street /Performance section below, it appears this Crown Vic IFS swap would work on a FSJ. (Thanks, Bigun)

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/71...o-67-f100.html
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  #100  
Old 12-29-2011, 03:38 PM
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Carnuck Carnuck is offline
 
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4BT for simplicity. Nissan SD33T (non-turbo was available from the factory J10s except in the US)

Did you guys know Mack trucks run Renault diesels?
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