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Old 08-05-2016, 11:59 PM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Apr 10, 2016
Location: Oregon Coast
Posts: 837
Narrowed it down I guess

Howell $1300
FITECH $995
Hamilton $1400

I'm an intermediate driveway mechanic. Never done this before but willing to try.

I'm leaning towards the Fitech because of price and seems a lot less clutter and it seems you don't have to mess with the distributor. I've never timed a vehicle before but somewhat have the idea.

Upon reading and scouring for quite some time, Some say you need to mess with the distributor anyways and it seems there 100 mods that everyone argues about in lingo I don't really understand. I don't want to drill a hole in my distributor cap to make sure everything lines up right that I welded together and wired shut after I tap and die a screw that I ground down so it would clear the spinner mechanism. This just sounds like something I'd screw up really bad.

Howell and Hamiltons have a distributor with the kit already setup I suppose? Fitech claims will work with my stock one.

I'm also confused about if I need to buy a fuel sending upgrade. I'd like to upgrade but not sure what to buy here.
They all 3 seem to have a new fuel pump with kit but all offer other alternatives.

Fitech has some fuel command center can thing. I can't figure out what to do with it they say it's a fuel pump but it looks huge. Where would this thing mount? Seems a good thing to have? Does it make noise? They sell another inline fuel pump separately too and a linkage for $29. Would I need all these? That would put it over $1600.

Gas tank and fuel sending unit- I just put in a newly engineered fuel sending unit piece of crap from TGW that I had to mess with 19+ times to finally get it to work right. Would I keep all that the same or do I need a new gas tank with an in tank fuel pump so it's quieter on the end of my sending unit? And a lot of talk about changing my fuel lines to bigger ones rated for hi pressure.

Also should buy the the Doug Thorlel headers they sell on BJs and have them installed first? Does Doug Thorley come with a pre installed bunghole? I was thinking to order them and have a muffler shop install them and put in a o2 bunghole so I could just screw in the o2 sensor, or should I attempt this install myself and drive down and have them install the bunghole. Seems easy enough to do but seems easy enough to not get a good gasket seal.

I'm trying to plan this thing out so that I can order everything at once and only have to do it once and not be missing anything, and get it right.Never done something like this so I could use some advice here on a list because I'm not quite sure all I'll need. I'll just go through their instructions step by step so hope they have good ones.

Thanks





Stock 87 GW.
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87 GW- Fitech EFI,Fitech FCC,Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift,BFG AT KO2 30",Dynamax muffler,MSD distributor,MSD 6al box,Blaster2 coil,ACCEL 8mm,.045 gap,Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake,Elgin perf cam,HD alum radiator,Powermaster 150alt,Alum HD H2O pump,Serhills tailgate harness,Cowl screen mod,Evil Twin grab handles,Rstep's custom AMC lock knobs

Last edited by ShagWagon : 08-06-2016 at 11:14 AM.
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  #2  
Old 08-06-2016, 07:31 PM
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BigOberg BigOberg is offline
oh i wish i had a cool handle.......
 
Join Date: Jan 20, 2015
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 147
Check out my build. I went with the Howell and it was well worth the money.
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1989 Grand Wagoneer: 360-727-229, 4" BJ's Lift w/32's, Howell Fuel Injection, TFI Conversion
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  #3  
Old 08-06-2016, 09:02 PM
asudchiman's Avatar
asudchiman asudchiman is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Feb 03, 2016
Location: Carolinas
Posts: 690
I'd like to follow along. I too would consider the upgrade. At this point, it seems the Howell is one of the most popular. This may be because Wagonmaster uses it, but I am glad to hear all of the input.
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1985 Grand Wagoneer - [Blue]
1990 Grand Wagoneer - [White]
1991 Grand Wagoneer - Vin#...001 [White]
1991 Grand Wagoneer [Hunter Green]
4rd: 2005 Jeep Wrangler LJ (Sold)
3rd: 1987 Grand Wagoneer (Sold)
2nd: 2005 Grand Cherokee Limited 4x4 Hemi (Sold)
1st: 1993 Wrangler Sahara (Sold)
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  #4  
Old 08-06-2016, 09:23 PM
asudchiman's Avatar
asudchiman asudchiman is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Feb 03, 2016
Location: Carolinas
Posts: 690
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigOberg
Check out my build. I went with the Howell and it was well worth the money.

I have read your build thread many times. Good stuff!
Are you still using your Jeep as a DD?

Do you have any "lawnmower" smells from your Jeep? I ask because the carb smell is triggering migraines for my wife. My hope is that EFI with a closed system will eliminate the smell and make it more like a modern car.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.
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1985 Grand Wagoneer - [Blue]
1990 Grand Wagoneer - [White]
1991 Grand Wagoneer - Vin#...001 [White]
1991 Grand Wagoneer [Hunter Green]
4rd: 2005 Jeep Wrangler LJ (Sold)
3rd: 1987 Grand Wagoneer (Sold)
2nd: 2005 Grand Cherokee Limited 4x4 Hemi (Sold)
1st: 1993 Wrangler Sahara (Sold)
------------------------------------------------
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Primary:My Jeep and Me
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  #5  
Old 08-07-2016, 01:04 PM
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BigOberg BigOberg is offline
oh i wish i had a cool handle.......
 
Join Date: Jan 20, 2015
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 147
I haven't been using it as my daily driver now. Only because my new job came with a brand new company car. But I still drive the GW on the weekends and any chance I get. I went a good six months though driving her daily with no issues. As far as the Howell goes I do not have any fuel smell at all.
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Follow my build http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=174682

1989 Grand Wagoneer: 360-727-229, 4" BJ's Lift w/32's, Howell Fuel Injection, TFI Conversion
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  #6  
Old 08-07-2016, 06:00 PM
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babywag babywag is offline
out of order
 
Join Date: Jun 08, 2005
Location: Land of froot loops and cukcoo-nuts, CA
Posts: 9,356
If your rig is truly stock w/ 2bbl carb?
You can add a 4bbl intake, valley pan gasket, and misc. to $ total/list.
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'88 GW (aka Babywag) and '90 GW (aka JUNKbucket) both fuel injected
1994 Caprice wagon
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  #7  
Old 08-07-2016, 07:14 PM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Apr 10, 2016
Location: Oregon Coast
Posts: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigOberg
Check out my build. I went with the Howell and it was well worth the money.

I read it before. Looks nice. I re read it again. Not too much on the process. Did you change your gas lines? They looked bad in the pic. You mentioned you were going to do a write up when you had the time about the Howell. How is the distributor they sent you? We're the instructions easy for it?
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87 GW- Fitech EFI,Fitech FCC,Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift,BFG AT KO2 30",Dynamax muffler,MSD distributor,MSD 6al box,Blaster2 coil,ACCEL 8mm,.045 gap,Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake,Elgin perf cam,HD alum radiator,Powermaster 150alt,Alum HD H2O pump,Serhills tailgate harness,Cowl screen mod,Evil Twin grab handles,Rstep's custom AMC lock knobs
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  #8  
Old 08-07-2016, 07:30 PM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Apr 10, 2016
Location: Oregon Coast
Posts: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
If your rig is truly stock w/ 2bbl carb?
You can add a 4bbl intake, valley pan gasket, and misc. to $ total/list.

I'm not too sure but I think so. Can you tell me what I got here?
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87 GW- Fitech EFI,Fitech FCC,Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift,BFG AT KO2 30",Dynamax muffler,MSD distributor,MSD 6al box,Blaster2 coil,ACCEL 8mm,.045 gap,Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake,Elgin perf cam,HD alum radiator,Powermaster 150alt,Alum HD H2O pump,Serhills tailgate harness,Cowl screen mod,Evil Twin grab handles,Rstep's custom AMC lock knobs

Last edited by ShagWagon : 08-15-2016 at 01:51 PM.
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  #9  
Old 08-07-2016, 07:33 PM
babywag's Avatar
babywag babywag is offline
out of order
 
Join Date: Jun 08, 2005
Location: Land of froot loops and cukcoo-nuts, CA
Posts: 9,356
Yep 2bbl intake & carb.
If you go GM TBI they come with adapter to install on stock intake.
If you go fitech you will need a 4bbl intake manifold.
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'88 GW (aka Babywag) and '90 GW (aka JUNKbucket) both fuel injected
1994 Caprice wagon
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  #10  
Old 08-07-2016, 10:16 PM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Apr 10, 2016
Location: Oregon Coast
Posts: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
Yep 2bbl intake & carb.
If you go GM TBI they come with adapter to install on stock intake.
If you go fitech you will need a 4bbl intake manifold.

Well that's good to know.


How hard is it to find an intake manifold? And is it hard to install? Seems simple if I'm already there if it's not to spendy.
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87 GW- Fitech EFI,Fitech FCC,Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift,BFG AT KO2 30",Dynamax muffler,MSD distributor,MSD 6al box,Blaster2 coil,ACCEL 8mm,.045 gap,Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake,Elgin perf cam,HD alum radiator,Powermaster 150alt,Alum HD H2O pump,Serhills tailgate harness,Cowl screen mod,Evil Twin grab handles,Rstep's custom AMC lock knobs
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  #11  
Old 08-08-2016, 07:54 AM
asudchiman's Avatar
asudchiman asudchiman is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Feb 03, 2016
Location: Carolinas
Posts: 690
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigOberg
I haven't been using it as my daily driver now. Only because my new job came with a brand new company car. But I still drive the GW on the weekends and any chance I get. I went a good six months though driving her daily with no issues. As far as the Howell goes I do not have any fuel smell at all.

Thanks! That is what I was hoping to hear.
__________________
1985 Grand Wagoneer - [Blue]
1990 Grand Wagoneer - [White]
1991 Grand Wagoneer - Vin#...001 [White]
1991 Grand Wagoneer [Hunter Green]
4rd: 2005 Jeep Wrangler LJ (Sold)
3rd: 1987 Grand Wagoneer (Sold)
2nd: 2005 Grand Cherokee Limited 4x4 Hemi (Sold)
1st: 1993 Wrangler Sahara (Sold)
------------------------------------------------
Blogs:
Primary:My Jeep and Me
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  #12  
Old 08-08-2016, 11:07 AM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Apr 10, 2016
Location: Oregon Coast
Posts: 837
I need this one? Not sure what I'd be getting here but seems like a good start. Not sure how much more I'd have to put into it to get it going.

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=180119

Or this one? $275 seems reasonable price.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/2131/10002/-1

Seems I have an 87 which is different. Am I pre pollution control? Not sure . Seems they made a change between 86-87 for Intake manifolds. Don't want to get the wrong one. What am I looking for here.

Maybe some other option for a manifold I don't know of like used or off another truck or something..

Thanks
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87 GW- Fitech EFI,Fitech FCC,Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift,BFG AT KO2 30",Dynamax muffler,MSD distributor,MSD 6al box,Blaster2 coil,ACCEL 8mm,.045 gap,Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake,Elgin perf cam,HD alum radiator,Powermaster 150alt,Alum HD H2O pump,Serhills tailgate harness,Cowl screen mod,Evil Twin grab handles,Rstep's custom AMC lock knobs

Last edited by ShagWagon : 08-08-2016 at 11:17 AM.
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  #13  
Old 08-08-2016, 11:24 AM
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babywag babywag is offline
out of order
 
Join Date: Jun 08, 2005
Location: Land of froot loops and cukcoo-nuts, CA
Posts: 9,356
Do NOT need 1st one. That is modified for MPFI.
You can buy new via summit/jegs, or used.
Post in wanted section or watch eBay and CL for used.
They run $100-$150 used, just be sure it is in good shape.
No stripped bolt holes or messed up gasket/mating surfaces.

If buying new I like this manifold.
https://m.summitracing.com/parts/ofy-5917
I think it would do well with FI.
But Edelbrock performer is fine as well.
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'88 GW (aka Babywag) and '90 GW (aka JUNKbucket) both fuel injected
1994 Caprice wagon

Last edited by babywag : 08-08-2016 at 11:30 AM.
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  #14  
Old 08-08-2016, 05:00 PM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Apr 10, 2016
Location: Oregon Coast
Posts: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
Do NOT need 1st one. That is modified for MPFI.
You can buy new via summit/jegs, or used.
Post in wanted section or watch eBay and CL for used.
They run $100-$150 used, just be sure it is in good shape.
No stripped bolt holes or messed up gasket/mating surfaces.

If buying new I like this manifold.
https://m.summitracing.com/parts/ofy-5917
I think it would do well with FI.
But Edelbrock performer is fine as well.

That one looks good but says not available till march 2017...

FITECH is starting to add up to about $1700 out the door with the $300 manifold and $400 In gas command add ins..
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87 GW- Fitech EFI,Fitech FCC,Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift,BFG AT KO2 30",Dynamax muffler,MSD distributor,MSD 6al box,Blaster2 coil,ACCEL 8mm,.045 gap,Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake,Elgin perf cam,HD alum radiator,Powermaster 150alt,Alum HD H2O pump,Serhills tailgate harness,Cowl screen mod,Evil Twin grab handles,Rstep's custom AMC lock knobs
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  #15  
Old 08-08-2016, 06:12 PM
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babywag babywag is offline
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Join Date: Jun 08, 2005
Location: Land of froot loops and cukcoo-nuts, CA
Posts: 9,356
Again just my opinions...

You don't need the $400 fuel command center, or the $250 fuel system.

A decent pump, and filter will do the job just fine.
You can get a walbro for ~$75 and a corvette regulating filter for ~$40(if going with returnless fuel system) .
Or you can buy an OE style pump for less.

The fuel command center has a 340 L/PH pump that is more suited for a 600-900hp engine.

IMHO the 600hp system is way overkill...4 80lb injectors.
The 400hp system is also mildly overkill, but not nearly as much.
Just like with a carb that is too big, a FI system that is too big will not perform optimally, but it will work.

You'll have to decide if a color touch screen, and timing control are worth the extra $$ to you?

Just don't get all sucked into the marketing hype.
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'88 GW (aka Babywag) and '90 GW (aka JUNKbucket) both fuel injected
1994 Caprice wagon
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  #16  
Old 08-08-2016, 07:44 PM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Apr 10, 2016
Location: Oregon Coast
Posts: 837
Yeah I really appreciate your opinion. Always nice from someone who's been there, done that...

Especially when there's soooo many choices and everyone seems to do it a different way.

I just found a Holley Sniper that looks pretty good for $1k. Says it bolts up to 2 and 4bbl manifolds but it's out till October... Holley has been around some.

I was planning to pull the trigger on the FItech yesterday, but was only planning on around $1400 and that's saving by doing it myself.


Not so sure now that I would have to buy and install a different manifold. SURPRISE!! Are they easy to install? And is there any " might as well do this" while we're in there? Seems like there always is.

Also curious on the Howell and Hamilton. They offer distributors with their kits. Are these upgraded better distributors to handle FI? Or just modified stock ones? And would I have to upgrade whole ignition system on top of the kit? Like a new coil, wires, ignition control box... Or is it just more like not neccesary but you should? I had a hi performance ignition module on my parts donor I switched out a few weeks ago when I learned what an ignition module was and the motor won't start with a bad one. Would this one work okay enough?
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87 GW- Fitech EFI,Fitech FCC,Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift,BFG AT KO2 30",Dynamax muffler,MSD distributor,MSD 6al box,Blaster2 coil,ACCEL 8mm,.045 gap,Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake,Elgin perf cam,HD alum radiator,Powermaster 150alt,Alum HD H2O pump,Serhills tailgate harness,Cowl screen mod,Evil Twin grab handles,Rstep's custom AMC lock knobs

Last edited by ShagWagon : 08-09-2016 at 07:14 AM.
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  #17  
Old 08-13-2016, 02:33 PM
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babywag babywag is offline
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Posts: 9,356
A 4bbl is an upgrade vs. the stock 2bbl, there is nothing especially hard about installing one. There is nothing "while you're in there" to do when installing an intake.

To take advantage of timing control a modified distributor is required.
The stock Motorcraft distributor can be modified to use pretty easily.
What system you run determines what needs to be upgraded/replaced/added/etc.

Your swapped high performance module is just a module, nothing really high performance about it.

Howell kits do not come with a distributor AFAIK, they also don't control timing. You can probably add these options on, but it would be extra $$.

Bill's system does timing control, and comes with a distributor.
No suprises, no extra parts needed AFIAK.

Fitech is probably going to be the most expensive option, as you've already found out.
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'88 GW (aka Babywag) and '90 GW (aka JUNKbucket) both fuel injected
1994 Caprice wagon
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  #18  
Old 08-14-2016, 02:14 PM
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cjsrebiff cjsrebiff is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Oct 05, 2015
Location: Eugene, OR
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I don't really post much, but I thought I would put in my .02. I have the Howell system. Did some reserch prior to purchase. It is an extremely easy bolt on. Everything was clearly labeled and instructions were laid out very well. I dropped in a new engine and the support from Howell was great. Letting me know if and what I needed. I made my decision after talking a friend that works at Warn. They know a little about off road performance.

Also, on something like fuel system, i wouldn't shop by price. It will cost more in the end.
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  #19  
Old 08-14-2016, 10:17 PM
John N John N is offline
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Join Date: Aug 23, 2008
Location: Rockville, Va
Posts: 16
I have a Howell on my Scrambler with a 360. Between that, a DUI HEI distributor and an Edlebrock Performer intake, it's been really reliable. I installed it all myself. The only issues initially were vacuum leaks that had to be chased down. It runs great and starts easily.
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  #20  
Old 08-15-2016, 12:30 PM
darylb darylb is offline
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Join Date: Jan 22, 2015
Location: Bountiful, UT
Posts: 90
Different headers

I would stay away from the Doug Thorley headers. Yes, they will weld the bung in for your O2 sensor, but their design is garbage. The header flange is cut so that the holes for the ports are way too small, it cuts about 15% or more of the exhaust flow right at the manifold. And they have already ground out all of the extra material they could so you can't improve the flow any further.
I have plenty of pictures to show what I mean. When you complain to Thorley about it they say that you will only lose 4 to 7 horses and you really don't need them for your application.
There is a header thread on here that goes through the other headers, stick with one of those. You'll save money and get much better headers.

http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=151504
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