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  #1  
Old 06-10-2018, 02:01 PM
wagoneerlove wagoneerlove is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Jun 05, 2018
Location: canada
Posts: 8
BBD 2 Venturi, 4.2/6 cylinder running issues???

I'll start by stating my 1982 wagoneer sat for sometime before I purchased it. Issues I'm having are once warmed up in the warmer weather (coincidence?), after 1/2 hr of driving, she will start to die, like its running out of gas. I'll pull over, have a smoke, fire it back up, and she's fine for another 1/2 hr. Less if I'm going 110 km's/hr or more. Now I've replaced fuel filter, ignition coil, starter solenoid. Plugs, wires, distributor, rotor are fairly new. Fuel and temp gauge are working and it's not overheating. I've also insulated the fuel line and filter. I'm kinda stumped and would appreciate any input.
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  #2  
Old 06-10-2018, 03:17 PM
wiley-moeracing wiley-moeracing is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Feb 15, 2010
Location: arizona
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when it happens next time try to see if it is getting fuel in the carb and or spray some carb/brake cleaner to see if truck starts. if it has gas and does not start with carb/brake cleaner then you have an issue with the coil or distributer pick up under rotor or ignition module, to verify if after the truck quits you can carefully pull a spark plug wire off plug, insert a screw driver in and lay it on the motor so there is a gap of 1/4" to a metal surface and crank and check for spark. that will tell you if it is ignition related. or take to a mechanic.
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  #3  
Old 06-10-2018, 04:30 PM
wagoneerlove wagoneerlove is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Jun 05, 2018
Location: canada
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It's definitely getting spark and fuel. It's doesn't actually run out of gas. When I pull over and put it in park, I can rev it and it sounds fine, but in drive it sputters like it wants to die. Literally 2 mins later it's fine to drive.
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  #4  
Old 06-10-2018, 05:24 PM
wiley-moeracing wiley-moeracing is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Feb 15, 2010
Location: arizona
Posts: 871
then it sounds like a vacuum leak, maybe the base gasket is cracked? Can also be low floats or fuel pump issue when hot. tough to diag unless in front of me, the best thing is run it to a mechanic.
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  #5  
Old 06-10-2018, 05:27 PM
wagoneerlove wagoneerlove is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Jun 05, 2018
Location: canada
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Yes, I understand. Thank you for replying.
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  #6  
Old 06-11-2018, 08:31 AM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
Join Date: May 29, 2003
Location: Medford MA USA
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I would also check the fuel pump for proper operation. There are instructions for this in the TSM using an inexpensive vacuum/pressure gauge.

Carburetors do not sit idle very well. Every new-old car I've owned I've rebuilt the carburetor soon after purchase.The BBD also suffers from plugged idle tubes, but this usually makes it stall at idle.

The BBD is the carburetor that everybody loves to hate - but they are likely not as bad as their reputation implies. An '82 may have the "computer controlled" version of that carburetor, where the "computer" changes the mixture using a stepper motor. Again, this is covered in detail in the TSM. Coverage in the TSM is good - I suggest you read the whole section and familiarize yourself with the function of this carburetor.
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Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk

Last edited by tgreese : 06-11-2018 at 09:40 AM.
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  #7  
Old 06-11-2018, 12:46 PM
wagoneerlove wagoneerlove is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Jun 05, 2018
Location: canada
Posts: 8
Thank you for the reply. Yes I did a fuel pump test and it barely moves to needle. Maybe 2 psi. Manual says 5-6 psi so pump is getting replaced tomorrow. I've been reading the manual and it does have the stepper motor you mentioned. Hopefully my issue is solved with a new fuel pump because that carburetor looks complicated. I'd like to find a local carb RE-builder and have it RE-built. See how the pump works out first. Thank you for your reply.
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  #8  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:08 PM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Location: Medford MA USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wagoneerlove
Thank you for the reply. Yes I did a fuel pump test and it barely moves to needle. Maybe 2 psi. Manual says 5-6 psi so pump is getting replaced tomorrow. I've been reading the manual and it does have the stepper motor you mentioned. Hopefully my issue is solved with a new fuel pump because that carburetor looks complicated. I'd like to find a local carb RE-builder and have it RE-built. See how the pump works out first. Thank you for your reply.
Sometimes a bad pump can leak gasoline into the crankcase. I would pull the dipstick and look for 1) overfilled and 2) strong gas smell from the oil. If so, oil change too.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
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  #9  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:17 PM
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newtojeeps newtojeeps is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Jun 28, 2006
Location: California
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Look to see if there is black goo running down your inner fender form the carbs computer.
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  #10  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:23 PM
joe joe is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 28, 2000
Location: PNWet, USA
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Fuel pump is a good start for your current prob but as Tim mentioned BBD's are notorious for being a crap carb. You can rebuild the carb yourself, just follow the instructions to the letter. It's a 2v so not very complicated...just weird. While your at it DO clean out the idle passages/tubes cause they will clog eventually and it will idle horribly. Some folks actually drill out the idle tubes to prolong re-clogging. IMHO the BBD isn't worth spending much money on. Save your money for a carb swap instead. I've had a few 258's with the BBD (key word is HAD). Love the motors, hate carbs. BBD's are a never ending/time consuming pile of grief. MC 2100's are a much better option and my favorite is the Weber 32/36. Neither will turn the 258 into a hot rod but both are very reliable.
Yours is the first BBD grief post I've seen in years. Thought by now they have all been smashed with very large hammers or resting on the bottom of the ocean? Do work through your weak fuel pump issue but don't assume it'll transform the BBD into a real carb.
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  #11  
Old 06-12-2018, 07:42 PM
wagoneerlove wagoneerlove is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Jun 05, 2018
Location: canada
Posts: 8
Well, the fuel pump was on its way. Would barely hold 2 psi when I tested it. The problem is still there, but not as bad. I have already cleaned the jets that are accessible through the top of the carb. What I've read and researched, sounds like it might be that stepper motor? Maybe, I don't know. Not too knowledgeable on carbs. Going to try and find a carb RE-builder locally, or get a different setup.
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  #12  
Old 06-12-2018, 11:38 PM
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Kaiserjeeps Kaiserjeeps is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Oct 02, 2002
Location: Mooseville Northern Idaho
Posts: 1,911
I have an 83 CJ-7 with a BBD that is giving me fits. There is the "Nutter Bypass" that removes the computer control of the carb and distributor and makes the rig drivable again. I have absolutely no intention of putting any time into the BBD and am currently looking at one of my Rochester 2 barrels for a swap. And, for the last week I have been reading up on the motorcraft 2100 or 2150 carb conversion for the 258. Supposed to purr and get better mileage on top of running great. Beware of the tons of Chinese 2100's on ebay. And that Colorado guy on ebay who sells the 300 dollar Jeep specific kits also uses Chinese junk. For the 258 engine the 1.08 venturi with #47 jets is the way to go. Not the 1.02 or 1.14 or up. You would need an adapter plate available from Summit.
The BBD will consume your money with minimal gain back. I am not sure how Canada's laws are with this. But if you can you should consider another carb than the BBD. Maybe your fuel pump replacement will solve it for you.
Hope that is all it is there.
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  #13  
Old 06-13-2018, 09:08 AM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Location: Medford MA USA
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Consider electronic fuel injection. There are kits for both throttle body and multiport EFI for the 258. If that's too pricey, there is plenty of info about junkyard and/or roll-your-own EFI solutions online.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
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  #14  
Old 06-13-2018, 09:19 AM
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babywag babywag is offline
out of order
 
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Location: Land of froot loops and cukcoo-nuts, CA
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I vote EFI conversion as well.
Holley has the 2bbl Sniper efi kit now, be a good investment on a 258 IMHO.
The XJ 4.0 injection setup can also be adapted.
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  #15  
Old 06-13-2018, 12:50 PM
wagoneerlove wagoneerlove is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Jun 05, 2018
Location: canada
Posts: 8
So here's the latest on my stalling out issue. Fuel pump needed to be replaced so I did that, same issues. Through searching for vapour lock solutions, I stumbled across a forum which had a guy who was having the same issues with his jeep, same motor and carb. He plugged his return line on his fuel filter and he hasn't had a problem since. Gave it a try and problem gone. Engine even runs cooler according to gauge. So my question is... good idea or no?
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  #16  
Old 06-13-2018, 01:35 PM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Location: Medford MA USA
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The fuel filter has an orifice internally that sends a limited amount of fuel back to the tank. When you plug the return, that increases the volume/pressure available to the carburetor. However, the pump should deliver enough fuel so that the carburetor will get plenty of fuel under all circumstances.

This could mean the fuel filter is so clogged that the orifice is an easier path than feeding the carb, or the line from the tank is plugged and the pump can't deliver. Is there a screen in the carb inlet? Or maybe your new pump is defective. Does the Canadian Wagoneer have vapor recovery? (ie the charcoal canister under the hood) If not, it needs a vented gas cap. This Jeep has a plastic gas tank, so rust in the tank should not be a problem.

More gas in the float bowl will make the mixture richer, generally. This could affect the operating temperature.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
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  #17  
Old 06-13-2018, 05:03 PM
wagoneerlove wagoneerlove is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Jun 05, 2018
Location: canada
Posts: 8
It does have the charcoal canister. The pump is new and I tested it. It's pumping about 6psi to the carb. The filter is new as well. It's the oem aluminum filter so I can't see if any particles are plugging it. That's why I thought I'd try the see through style filter. To see if anything is clogging up the filter. I did notice alot of gas in the return line when I disconnected it. Is that normal?
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  #18  
Old 06-14-2018, 08:30 AM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wagoneerlove
It does have the charcoal canister. The pump is new and I tested it. It's pumping about 6psi to the carb. The filter is new as well. It's the oem aluminum filter so I can't see if any particles are plugging it. That's why I thought I'd try the see through style filter. To see if anything is clogging up the filter. I did notice alot of gas in the return line when I disconnected it. Is that normal?
You could test the pressure after the filter with the return connected. Should be something like a couple PSI, I'd think (having never done this experiment). The fuel also has to get through the inlet line from the filter to the carb and past the float valve. Something could be plugged up in there - is there a screen in the inlet? The return line nipple on the filter should be at 12 o'clock on the carb side of the filter.

There should be some gas in all three connections to the filter. I don't recall ever seeing excess gas from the return line, compared to the inlet or outlet.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk

Last edited by tgreese : 06-14-2018 at 12:08 PM.
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  #19  
Old 06-24-2018, 10:43 AM
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2ToneBluJ10 2ToneBluJ10 is offline
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Check the carb mounting nuts they have a bad habit of loosening. I had to put blue loctite on my bbd when i kept having Vac leaks.
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