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  #1  
Old 01-16-2017, 02:00 PM
PNW69Waggy PNW69Waggy is offline
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Location: Portland, Oregon
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Radiator & Fan for '69 Wagoneer w/ Buick 350?

Hey all, so I have a '69 Waggy with the Buick 350 V8 engine and A/C. A bad motor mount caused the fan to slice out a big chunk of the radiator. The frame and tanks are still in great shape so I figured I'd take it to a local shop to be completely re-cored. It looks like it's been done at least once before due to having a sticker on it from a radiator shop in another state. I'm not sure to tell by looking at it how many cores it has but it's quite thick.

What is the stock configuration for the Buick 350 FSJ radiators as far as # of cores and size? And should I stick with that setup; or is there is a cost effective way to upgrade the radiator core from the stock design while still using the stock tanks?

I don't expect to need a TON more cooling than stock, I just figure it's always a worthwhile area to upgrade. It has been pretty hot here the past couple summers and I don't want to have issues when sitting in traffic or heading up to the mountains. A lift and 31" or 32" tires will be in the Wag's future and I'd like to be able to tow at least a pop up camper up mountain passes without running warm. That's why I figure if there's a practical upgrade than can be done to the stock radiator I may want to go for it. I definitely don't have the budget for a custom aluminum radiator but then again I don't expect to need that much of an upgrade. And I'm trying to retain as many original parts as I can on this rig anyway.

Should there be a fan clutch on a '69 Wagoneer with the Buick 350? It has A/C, but I am not sure if it is factory or was added later (I'm leaning towards having been added later). Currently it has a solid spacer on the cooling fan.

Unfortunately my original shroud was damaged beyond further repair when the fan hit the radiator. I've been reading about how no one makes a replacement shroud, and no originals really exist anymore as fragile as they are. Ultimately I will probably just convert over to an electric fan setup as I prefer them over mechanical fans anyway. That being said, has anyone found a shroud than can be made to fit the Buick 350 powered FSJ's? Is the shroud for the AMC powered Jeeps really that much different that it can't be make to work?
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  #2  
Old 01-16-2017, 04:46 PM
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KaiserMan KaiserMan is offline
I got the Willys....
 
Join Date: Jun 21, 2005
Location: Huntington, Ma.
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From what I've looked at, a fan shroud from a FSJ with a 360 can be made to work. The radiators are the same size, so it will mount up at least.

I just had the radiator in my 68 J3000 with a Buick 350 re-cored. $669.38 out the door. This was for an upgraded core (still a 3 core) that has 14 fins per inch vs. the stock 11 fins per inch. The standard core would have been $535 plus tax.

All Buick FSJ's came with 3 core radiators. And I've been told the tanks are too narrow to accommodate 4 row cores.

Fans came in three levels iirc. 4 blade with spacer, 7 blade with standard duty clutch and 7 blade with HD clutch. The HD clutch is recommended for snow plowing and towing. The standard duty clutch came with SOME AC equipped Jeeps. There are several TSB's about them.

Same fan as used on Buick cars with 350's. Clutch may or may not be the same. I've seen some Buick clutches that where longer than others and wouldn't clear the Jeep radiator.
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Thomas Russell
1987 Cherokee Laredo 2-Door 4.0/AW4
1971 Gladiator
J2000 Platform-Stake Dump 350/T18

1970 Gladiator J3000 3407Z Camper Truck 350/T18
1968 Wagoneer Custom 327/TH400

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  #3  
Old 01-17-2017, 06:44 AM
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swampedge swampedge is offline
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There is a gentleman on the V8Buick.com website who will make you a fiberglass shroud. Craig goes by meltdown over there. He's making 2 for me now.
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  #4  
Old 01-17-2017, 10:51 AM
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KaiserMan KaiserMan is offline
I got the Willys....
 
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What's the cost? I may be interested in one for my dually.
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Thomas Russell
1987 Cherokee Laredo 2-Door 4.0/AW4
1971 Gladiator
J2000 Platform-Stake Dump 350/T18

1970 Gladiator J3000 3407Z Camper Truck 350/T18
1968 Wagoneer Custom 327/TH400

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  #5  
Old 01-17-2017, 12:25 PM
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44BZ 44BZ is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Dec 10, 2009
Location: oregon city, or
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW69Waggy
Hey all, so I have a '69 Waggy with the Buick 350 V8 engine and A/C. A bad motor mount caused the fan to slice out a big chunk of the radiator. The frame and tanks are still in great shape so I figured I'd take it to a local shop to be completely re-cored. It looks like it's been done at least once before due to having a sticker on it from a radiator shop in another state. I'm not sure to tell by looking at it how many cores it has but it's quite thick.

What is the stock configuration for the Buick 350 FSJ radiators as far as # of cores and size? And should I stick with that setup; or is there is a cost effective way to upgrade the radiator core from the stock design while still using the stock tanks?

I don't expect to need a TON more cooling than stock, I just figure it's always a worthwhile area to upgrade. It has been pretty hot here the past couple summers and I don't want to have issues when sitting in traffic or heading up to the mountains. A lift and 31" or 32" tires will be in the Wag's future and I'd like to be able to tow at least a pop up camper up mountain passes without running warm. That's why I figure if there's a practical upgrade than can be done to the stock radiator I may want to go for it. I definitely don't have the budget for a custom aluminum radiator but then again I don't expect to need that much of an upgrade. And I'm trying to retain as many original parts as I can on this rig anyway.

Should there be a fan clutch on a '69 Wagoneer with the Buick 350? It has A/C, but I am not sure if it is factory or was added later (I'm leaning towards having been added later). Currently it has a solid spacer on the cooling fan.

Unfortunately my original shroud was damaged beyond further repair when the fan hit the radiator. I've been reading about how no one makes a replacement shroud, and no originals really exist anymore as fragile as they are. Ultimately I will probably just convert over to an electric fan setup as I prefer them over mechanical fans anyway. That being said, has anyone found a shroud than can be made to fit the Buick 350 powered FSJ's? Is the shroud for the AMC powered Jeeps really that much different that it can't be make to work?

Mac's Radiator recored my AMC 327 radiator and did a great job. They're in SE Portland and very knowledgeable. I'm sure they could easily bring yours back to original shape and make improvements based on your driving needs.
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Zack - 68 J2000, AMC 327, 4bbl intake, dual exhaust, Pertronix upgrade, Holley 600cfm, T18, dana 20 (twin sticked), 3" body lift w/ 35x12.50 MTRs ~ running AND driving!
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  #6  
Old 01-20-2017, 07:03 AM
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swampedge swampedge is offline
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Thomas, my quoted price was 140.00 each.
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  #7  
Old 01-21-2017, 05:19 AM
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KaiserMan KaiserMan is offline
I got the Willys....
 
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Location: Huntington, Ma.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swampedge
Thomas, my quoted price was 140.00 each.

That's a great price. When do you think you'll have them? If they look good I'll have to give the guy a call and see about getting one myself. Can you PM me his info?
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Thomas Russell
1987 Cherokee Laredo 2-Door 4.0/AW4
1971 Gladiator
J2000 Platform-Stake Dump 350/T18

1970 Gladiator J3000 3407Z Camper Truck 350/T18
1968 Wagoneer Custom 327/TH400

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  #8  
Old 10-05-2017, 03:33 PM
PNW69Waggy PNW69Waggy is offline
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Location: Portland, Oregon
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So I got the radiator re-cored by a local shop (Mac's), expensive but they did a nice job and I'm glad to be keeping the original radiator. I believe we went to dimpled tubes to improve cooling efficiency (about a $50 upgrade over the stock type) but kept the number and size of rows the same. I do see that BJ's is now selling an aluminium radiator for the Buick 350 powered rigs that looks very nice.

I need to get a new mechanical fan on this thing since the original got mangled when it ate the radiator. I may install an electric fan eventually but I would want to upgrade the charging system first and that's not a huge priority right now. So at least for the time being I think I'll install a Hayden thermal clutch and a new fan.

The stock fan was a 4 blade... should I change it to a 5, 6, or 7 blade unit? I believe GM made fans with 4-7 blades that all interchange. I don't necessarily need more airflow than stock, but I don't think 4 blade fans were used with a thermal clutch.

Still need to figure out a shroud as well. Gonna see if I can adapt an AMC powered FSJ shroud or one off some other vehicle I think. Although I would kinda like to see that custom fiberglass shroud too, I'd be willing to spend $140 for a really nice shroud if I decide to stick with the mechanical fan permanently.
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'69 Wagoneer, Empire Blue / rust, Buick 350, TH00, Dana 20, Dana 27/44, stock & original
'91 XJ Laredo 4dr, 4.0L/AW4, 4.5" lift, 31" BFG's, etc
'02 WJ Limited, 4.7L/QD, 2.5" lift, 31" BFG's, etc

Last edited by PNW69Waggy : 10-05-2017 at 03:40 PM.
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  #9  
Old 10-07-2017, 05:44 PM
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Kenall Kenall is offline
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im a fan (hehehehe) of 6 blade clutch fans.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PNW69Waggy
So I got the radiator re-cored by a local shop (Mac's), expensive but they did a nice job and I'm glad to be keeping the original radiator. I believe we went to dimpled tubes to improve cooling efficiency (about a $50 upgrade over the stock type) but kept the number and size of rows the same. I do see that BJ's is now selling an aluminium radiator for the Buick 350 powered rigs that looks very nice.

I need to get a new mechanical fan on this thing since the original got mangled when it ate the radiator. I may install an electric fan eventually but I would want to upgrade the charging system first and that's not a huge priority right now. So at least for the time being I think I'll install a Hayden thermal clutch and a new fan.

The stock fan was a 4 blade... should I change it to a 5, 6, or 7 blade unit? I believe GM made fans with 4-7 blades that all interchange. I don't necessarily need more airflow than stock, but I don't think 4 blade fans were used with a thermal clutch.

Still need to figure out a shroud as well. Gonna see if I can adapt an AMC powered FSJ shroud or one off some other vehicle I think. Although I would kinda like to see that custom fiberglass shroud too, I'd be willing to spend $140 for a really nice shroud if I decide to stick with the mechanical fan permanently.
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1966 Super Wagoneer
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  #10  
Old 10-08-2017, 01:14 AM
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Kaiserjeeps Kaiserjeeps is offline
360 AMC
 
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Location: Mooseville Northern Idaho
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Summit has fans of all sizes. I upgraded the fan on the 70 I am building from a 4 blade to a 7 blade. Stay away from flex fans. They kill people. Many years ago a member of the Jolly Jeepers based there in Oregon had his heart cut in half when his flex fan shed a blade. I was member 119 in that club for a while. Electrics usually won't cool as well as a good fan and a shroud. My 69X has a 4 row high efficiency core in stock tanks. It is heavy. I can't remember who built it there in PDX. It was many years ago.
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  #11  
Old 10-08-2017, 09:32 AM
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Herk Herk is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Jun 12, 2006
Location: Boise, ID
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A clutch fan from a later 360 powered rig, or just about anything else will work worlds better than the original 4 blade fixed fan. I ran a 72 Dodge Dart fan for years.

Also, if your 350 warms up in traffic switch to a Robershaw style thermostat. Doing so was the biggest cooling improvement I made to my truck (ditching the aluminum cross flow for a junkyard factory radiator was a close 2nd).
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1971 J-4700/Buick 350 Stage 1/TH400/D20/D44/D60/Koenig PTO Winch
2005 LJ Rubicon Pretty close to stock
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  #12  
Old 10-09-2017, 10:33 AM
PNW69Waggy PNW69Waggy is offline
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Join Date: Oct 15, 2016
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 27
Herk, when you say a Robertshaw style thermostat are you just referring to a high flow thermostat? I do have one of those waiting to install, made by Mr. Gasket. The stat that came installed in the Jeep was a 195*, I assume that is the correct temp for the Buick 350?

So for the fan, basically the more blades the better it cools, or is there more to it than that? Looks like Summit and Speedway have a ton of options that could work...
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'69 Wagoneer, Empire Blue / rust, Buick 350, TH00, Dana 20, Dana 27/44, stock & original
'91 XJ Laredo 4dr, 4.0L/AW4, 4.5" lift, 31" BFG's, etc
'02 WJ Limited, 4.7L/QD, 2.5" lift, 31" BFG's, etc
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  #13  
Old 10-09-2017, 10:42 AM
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KaiserMan KaiserMan is offline
I got the Willys....
 
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Location: Huntington, Ma.
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Blade pitch.

I'm running a 7 blade fan from a 70's Chevy truck on my 71 J2000 and my 63 J300 (with a swapped in Buick 350), it works great.

I put the correct Buick 350 fan on my dually, and I think I have a 360 fan on my Camper Truck. They are all pretty similar.

I'm going to be switching to a 180* thermostat in my 63. It doesn't like the plow frame and large tranny cooler I have in front of the radiator. Makes it run pretty hot pulling hills.
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1987 Cherokee Laredo 2-Door 4.0/AW4
1971 Gladiator
J2000 Platform-Stake Dump 350/T18

1970 Gladiator J3000 3407Z Camper Truck 350/T18
1968 Wagoneer Custom 327/TH400

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