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Old 09-14-2018, 09:03 PM
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Crankyolman Crankyolman is offline
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Question about In tank fuel pump for Fitech

OK so the big question is what fuel pump to use?



I'm getting ready to convert my 1972 J4500 truck with AMC 360 over to the Fitech Go EFI 2 barrel. My preference for a fuel pump is an in tank pump. My truck has a plastic aftermarket fuel tank which uses the stock style pick up and sending unit. It does have a fitting for a return fuel line so return isn't a problem. The fit for the sending unit is pretty tight.



I was planning on using the Novak in tank fuel pump but when I click on the link on there website I get "page not found". So I emailed them about it and never received a response which leads me to fear they may not offer it anymore. I am planning on calling them about it but would like to know if any of you guys have any other suggestions.


I have seen where some of you are running in tank pumps from Chevys but haven't really been able to find very many details on how you did that and don't know if they put out sufficient pressure for the Fitech. If it matters my truck seldom drives on highways. 3,000 RPM is 68 MPH and is plenty fast enough for any driving I do and is the fastest I have ever driven it. Most of my driving is well under 50 MPH and below 2,200 RPM.


So any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by Crankyolman : 09-14-2018 at 09:09 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-14-2018, 11:16 PM
yossarian19 yossarian19 is offline
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So, what I did was picked a fuel pump (I recommend Walbro for your application, dunno how many LPH but a 255 is sure to be enough) and pulled the sender unit.
I put the filter sock on the pump then held it up against the stock sender tube.
Mark where you are going to cut the factory sender.
Cut it.
Attach pump with in-tank fuel hose & good quality clamps.
Oh, wait, but first...
The factory sender has the tubes soldered in place. I took the 1/4" tube, heated it with a torch to melt the solder, yanked it out of there with pliers, drilled that hole to 3/8 & bent a new tube. That's the one I hung the pump from, the 3/8. 5/16 (your old feed line) became the new return.
Then run 3/8 from tank to throttle body and you are good to go.
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Old 09-15-2018, 09:20 AM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
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I had a hard time finding it again on Novak website too when I looked it up for someone, but it's there about a month ago.

Also need to call them and have them put a hi pressure pump 60+psi on it for FI or else you may get a 3-5 psi for carb or a low pressure FI one.

Or you can convert yours for around $75 if you use your existing sender.
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  #4  
Old 09-15-2018, 10:03 AM
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babywag babywag is offline
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pumps do not put out pressure or a specific pressure, they flow fuel.
regulators set the pressure.
there are many stock application pumps that will do the job.
for a stock-ish engine you do not need a high flow pump like 255lph

for a 2bbl tb efi setup a stock type pump for something like a camaro/mustang/vortec truck would be more than adequate.

I prefer to use stock type parts vs. aftermarket, readily available @ parts stores, lifetime warranty, etc. if needed.
Walbro and similar are fine, but more expensive, and generally no warranty.
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'88 GW (aka Babywag) and '90 GW (aka JUNKbucket) both fuel injected
1994 Caprice wagon
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  #5  
Old 09-17-2018, 01:04 AM
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Crankyolman Crankyolman is offline
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I really appreciate the advice and I'm really concerned that I am going to sound like a jerk here but it is not my intention, so please don't get too testy with me I guess I just need a bit of hand holding to be confident I am going to do this right the first time and not waste a lot of money on the wrong thing or do some irreversible damage.



I understand the process of running the lines but don't understand the wiring. How do you connect the wires inside the tank? Do these pumps come with long enough wiring to get them out of the tank without splicing or will I need to solder a splice inside the tank? or something else? I guess this is my biggest issue, just not sure about running wires inside a fuel tank.


Quote:
Originally Posted by yossarian19
So, what I did was picked a fuel pump (I recommend Walbro for your application, dunno how many LPH but a 255 is sure to be enough) and pulled the sender unit.
I put the filter sock on the pump then held it up against the stock sender tube.
Mark where you are going to cut the factory sender.
Cut it.
Attach pump with in-tank fuel hose & good quality clamps.
Oh, wait, but first...
The factory sender has the tubes soldered in place. I took the 1/4" tube, heated it with a torch to melt the solder, yanked it out of there with pliers, drilled that hole to 3/8 & bent a new tube. That's the one I hung the pump from, the 3/8. 5/16 (your old feed line) became the new return.
Then run 3/8 from tank to throttle body and you are good to go.


Is this the one you are talking about? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/v...58-2/overview/


According to Fitch their external pump is rated at 255 lph so I am assuming this would be a match although I know lph doesn't necessarily amount to PSI.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ShagWagon
I had a hard time finding it again on Novak website too when I looked it up for someone, but it's there about a month ago.

Also need to call them and have them put a hi pressure pump 60+psi on it for FI or else you may get a 3-5 psi for carb or a low pressure FI one.

Or you can convert yours for around $75 if you use your existing sender.


I see you are using a Fitech right now, did you use the Novak pump or did you do something else? are you using Fitechs fuel regulator or something else there to control the fuel pump? Do you have a link to details on your conversion?


Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
pumps do not put out pressure or a specific pressure, they flow fuel.
regulators set the pressure.
there are many stock application pumps that will do the job.
for a stock-ish engine you do not need a high flow pump like 255lph

for a 2bbl tb efi setup a stock type pump for something like a camaro/mustang/vortec truck would be more than adequate.

I prefer to use stock type parts vs. aftermarket, readily available @ parts stores, lifetime warranty, etc. if needed.
Walbro and similar are fine, but more expensive, and generally no warranty.


I also prefer something easy and quick to get and available anywhere in the event it is needed. Autozone is my most used parts source but you tend to need to be tediously specific with them, would you have an idea of make/model/year of something GM that would have an acceptable pump? and do you think Fitechs internal regulator would work with it?


Thank you everybody for your help on this.
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  #6  
Old 09-17-2018, 10:04 AM
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babywag babywag is offline
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For parts stores I'd suggest an ACDelco EP381 or a Delphi FE0114
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'88 GW (aka Babywag) and '90 GW (aka JUNKbucket) both fuel injected
1994 Caprice wagon
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  #7  
Old 09-17-2018, 08:09 PM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
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Yeah I used the Novak one but I had to lengthen the pickup tube on the sender just like I had to with another sending unit I got from TGW. I still haven't figured out why they make the replacement sending units shorter than the stock one by about 2.5".

Yeah my fitech had a regulator at 58psi. So I just had to make sure it was 58+. Novak used a Delphi 100psi. It may be different for a 2 barrel fitech. Check the requirements and use a pump higher than that.

They didn't have that when I bought mine about 18 months ago or so.mines a 4 barrel one that I also had to change the intake manifold as well.

I also bought all the parts to make one as well for about $170 from amazon.

I will tell you DO NOT use the fuel command center from fitech. It overheats at idle because it doesn't flow enough fuel through to keep it cool.
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  #8  
Old 09-17-2018, 09:48 PM
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Crankyolman Crankyolman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babywag
For parts stores I'd suggest an ACDelco EP381 or a Delphi FE0114


Thank you, that helps a lot.


I hope you will excuse my ignorance but what about the wiring to the pump? How is it accomplished? I feel so stupid asking that but wiring in a fuel tank kind of scares me.
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  #9  
Old 09-17-2018, 10:03 PM
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Crankyolman Crankyolman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShagWagon
Yeah I used the Novak one but I had to lengthen the pickup tube on the sender just like I had to with another sending unit I got from TGW. I still haven't figured out why they make the replacement sending units shorter than the stock one by about 2.5".

Yeah my fitech had a regulator at 58psi. So I just had to make sure it was 58+. Novak used a Delphi 100psi. It may be different for a 2 barrel fitech. Check the requirements and use a pump higher than that.

They didn't have that when I bought mine about 18 months ago or so.mines a 4 barrel one that I also had to change the intake manifold as well.

I also bought all the parts to make one as well for about $170 from amazon.

I will tell you DO NOT use the fuel command center from fitech. It overheats at idle because it doesn't flow enough fuel through to keep it cool.


Thank you, I think I now have this pretty much figured out...except for the wiring but that will come. I have actually done a ton of research on this. Originally I was going to go with the fuel command center but found the posts about the problems which is why I want to go with an in tank pump. I was also originally going to go with the 4 barrel and was very glad when they came out with the 2 barrel that fits my goofy factory intake. I can tell you, after fighting with that damn heavy hunk of cast iron for a day and a half to get it to fit I never want to remove it ever again and didn't really need the added expense of a new intake. While my engine only has 3,500 miles since rebuild, it is still stock everything except the ignition and it never gets driven hard so I don't really feel the need for a 4 barrel.



A couple years ago I bought a replacement fuel sending unit which actually works quite well so I will most likely be modifying that to fit the new fuel pump when I do the conversion.
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  #10  
Old 09-18-2018, 07:57 AM
jblue1555 jblue1555 is offline
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I installed Fitech 600 hp unit on a CJ -7 using their 2 inch in tank fuel pump. It was in stock 20 gal plastic tank. Ran new 3/8 feed and return lines, only had to remove stock sender to do the install. They also have a in tank pump that has a Reg. built in it and can be set to return the fuel in the tank and negating the need for a return line. Make sure to locate pump for fuel line routing, clearance of cross members, and fuel sock will not affect stock fuel sender when you reinstall it.
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  #11  
Old 09-18-2018, 10:37 AM
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Crankyolman Crankyolman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblue1555
I installed Fitech 600 hp unit on a CJ -7 using their 2 inch in tank fuel pump. It was in stock 20 gal plastic tank. Ran new 3/8 feed and return lines, only had to remove stock sender to do the install. They also have a in tank pump that has a Reg. built in it and can be set to return the fuel in the tank and negating the need for a return line. Make sure to locate pump for fuel line routing, clearance of cross members, and fuel sock will not affect stock fuel sender when you reinstall it.


Thanks


The last time I looked at fuel pumps on Fitech's site all I could find were pumps that required cutting huge holes in the fuel tank. I just looked again and found this https://fitechefi.com/products/40102/ which looks like it will probably work just fine. is there anything I need to know about regulating it? My understanding is the throttle body has a connection that does that but they also sell an external regulator which has me a bit confused.



I also noticed they have come out with a new version of the fuel command center ("command center 2" ) that now returns fuel back to the tank to try to prevent the overheating problems they had with the first version.


Returning back to my tank isn't a problem because the original sending unit did not have a vent line, the tank itself has one but when I replaced the sending unit the new one sending unit had a vent connection. I am curious though, a lot pf people say they replace the vent with a new pickup where the pump attaches and use the old pickup as the return but what do they do about venting the tank? Is venting no longer required?
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  #12  
Old 09-18-2018, 08:22 PM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankyolman
Thanks


The last time I looked at fuel pumps on Fitech's site all I could find were pumps that required cutting huge holes in the fuel tank. I just looked again and found this https://fitechefi.com/products/40102/ which looks like it will probably work just fine. is there anything I need to know about regulating it? My understanding is the throttle body has a connection that does that but they also sell an external regulator which has me a bit confused.



I also noticed they have come out with a new version of the fuel command center ("command center 2" ) that now returns fuel back to the tank to try to prevent the overheating problems they had with the first version.


Returning back to my tank isn't a problem because the original sending unit did not have a vent line, the tank itself has one but when I replaced the sending unit the new one sending unit had a vent connection. I am curious though, a lot pf people say they replace the vent with a new pickup where the pump attaches and use the old pickup as the return but what do they do about venting the tank? Is venting no longer required?

I can't answer that vent question I have an 87 might be quite different.

But I would stay away from any FCC. It's a submerged fuel pump inside a 3/4 gallon coffee can. In tank is a submerged fuel pump in a 18 gallon coffee can.
Which would stay cooler? When it idles it's barely cycling out the heat from the fuel pump.... I seriously went the rounds with one for 6 months or so till I figured it out.

My fitech 600 has a regulator at the throttle body at 58psi. I don't know what the new 2bbl one needs. You'll have to look that up and get a pump higher that its regulator.
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Old 09-18-2018, 09:20 PM
jblue1555 jblue1555 is offline
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Fitech requires both feed and return lines be 3/8. I called and asked that question and was told 3/8. I would have loved not to do it but if you want it to perform right do it right. As far as venting the tank, you would get 2 dozen ways to do it, some better than others. Im not going to tell you a modified gas cap that allows venting works but I wont tell you it wont.
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Old 09-19-2018, 10:50 AM
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Crankyolman Crankyolman is offline
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Venting isn't a problem for me since I currently have 2 vents so one can be a return and I still have another, I was just wondering what the people who convert their vent to other uses do for venting.


Last night I was making a list of materials I will need for this conversion and when I got to fuel line it got me to thinking. Should I use hard line or braided line? Does it matter? Bending hard lines isn't a problem with me but I really have nothing against braided either so I'm wondering what other people did and why before I order what I need.
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:01 PM
ShagWagon ShagWagon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crankyolman
Venting isn't a problem for me since I currently have 2 vents so one can be a return and I still have another, I was just wondering what the people who convert their vent to other uses do for venting.


Last night I was making a list of materials I will need for this conversion and when I got to fuel line it got me to thinking. Should I use hard line or braided line? Does it matter? Bending hard lines isn't a problem with me but I really have nothing against braided either so I'm wondering what other people did and why before I order what I need.

I'd go hardline where it's supposed to go. Like around heat and possible friction areas so you don't melt or rupture a rubber one. Regular gas line where it needs and braided where you just want to look nice.

I stay away from braided as much as I can because it can constrict hoses like a Chinese handcuff toy.
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:03 PM
jblue1555 jblue1555 is offline
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Russell has a fuel line kit that has all the fittings you need and fuel filter with quick connect fittings. its high pressure and you can order it in different lengths If I remember correctly.
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Old 09-21-2018, 06:00 PM
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Crankyolman Crankyolman is offline
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Thank you for your answers.
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