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  #1  
Old 06-14-2006, 01:38 PM
mountainbees mountainbees is offline
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AMC 360 upgrade - Dodge 360 fuel injection ?

I have a 87 Grand Wagoneer with the 360 and stock carb on it. I would like to upgrade to fuel injection for more power and better mileage. I have looked at the $2700. upgrade from Edelbrock (or was it Holly?) but it seems way to overpriced to me. I have located a Dodge van 1992 model with a 360 fuel injection setup. Do any of you guys know if this 360 Dodge fuel injection will fit my 87 and if so what has to be done to convert it? Any help from you pros would be appreciated. I would like to find that some of you have already done this before. Thanks Mountainbees.
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  #2  
Old 06-14-2006, 02:05 PM
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Bama Burden Bama Burden is offline
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Most everybody here that doesn't use howell,customefi, etc. uses GM based TBI. Basically just rob a 1987-1995 GM truck with a V8.

edit: I know that doesn't answer your question, but the GM's are very plentiful and there is a ton of support and work that has already been put into the swap. You just have to do the research. The GM swap is doable for a few hundred dollars, if you are willing to do some searching and reading of wiring diagrams.

Last edited by Bama Burden : 06-14-2006 at 02:10 PM.
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  #3  
Old 06-14-2006, 04:22 PM
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mdill mdill is offline
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The similarity between a Mopar 360 and your AMC 360 is limited to the displacment, lifter bores, and that it is an internal combustion otto cycle engine.
To answer your question could it be made to work ? Sure, is it a bolt on swap ? Not even close.
With enough machine work, $'s, time ... you can get anything to work.


Mike D.
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  #4  
Old 06-14-2006, 05:53 PM
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Stuka Stuka is offline
 
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The edelbrock setup cost what it does because its tuned port injection, not a throttle body injection setup like the cheaper ones.
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  #5  
Old 06-14-2006, 06:03 PM
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Tripwire Tripwire is offline
hey,does anyone here know how to.......
 
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Ya cant go wrong with the Howell setup, easy to get parts and tech support is supurb !
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86 GrandWag. Howell fuel Injected 360. MSD Ignition + Dizzy. 727/229 swap BJ's 2" Lift and 31's

88 Wrangler 4.2, Howell TBI and MSD - Borla Headers w/ Cat-back + winch and 31's AND a M416 trailer (-:
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  #6  
Old 06-14-2006, 10:32 PM
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J10-401 J10-401 is offline
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And the Howell is smog friendly in most states too. Go with the flow.
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  #7  
Old 06-15-2006, 06:44 AM
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rustywag rustywag is offline
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The Dodge system would require no more effort to instal than a GM system. The problem however is that there is NO aftermarket support for the Dodge ECM. If you go with GM oodles of folks can reflash you an ECM to match your specific engine parameters no-one offers this service for the Mopar. The components of both systems are basically the same and I believe that both throttle bodies were manufactured by Holley anyway but the lack of aftemarket support would seem to be a deal-breaker for the Dodge system.
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  #8  
Old 06-15-2006, 09:10 AM
mountainbees mountainbees is offline
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Enough said about the Dodge parts. No aftermarket support isn't anything I'm looking for. I will be looking for a GM as you guys suggested but the Howell sounds good as well. Stupid question: what is a Howell system or what did it come off of? Also anybody know of any tech links about this upgrade to GM or Howell systems? Thanks for all the help my fellow gas guzzlers. Mountainbees
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87 Grand Wagoneer
BJ's 6" lift
TFI upgrade
BJ's sway bar disconnects
BJ rock sliders
K&N air filter
All my factory gauges actually work (for now)
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  #9  
Old 06-15-2006, 01:52 PM
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Serious Johnson Serious Johnson is offline
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I can't imagine why in the world Howell would want to leave out ignition control, thus losing one of the major benefits of EFI. I'd say do a fully-capable junkyard system with help & advice from folks here or, if you're feeling lucky, try customefis.com (abysmal support, poor credibility, but a well developed product at a fair price [if it ever arrives]).

S.J.
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360, .030-over, K8600 cam, Crane springs, ported heads, Edelbrock Performer, G.M. TBI, TFI, 3" exhaust,
T-18a/208, D44/AMC 20 w/ limited slip in both, 3.73s, 33s, BDS 4" springs, Rancho 9000 shocks, etc., etc.
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  #10  
Old 06-15-2006, 02:31 PM
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mdill mdill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Johnson
I can't imagine why in the world Howell would want to leave out ignition control, thus losing one of the major benefits of EFI. I'd say do a fully-capable junkyard system with help & advice from folks here or, if you're feeling lucky, try customefis.com (abysmal support, poor credibility, but a well developed product at a fair price [if it ever arrives]).

S.J.

Adding the ignition side, requires either modifications to the stock dizzy, with a external GM module custom box thingy, or a new GM style Dizzy (Add $200+ to the kit)
most likely they don't think the market would support the extra cash outlay.
The Howell kit is pretty much as base as can be as far as the functions that are supported, for what it is it is an OK kit. The bad thing is one of the guy's that is turely capable of doing a real nice custom job and tunning with the GM TBI has blown his rep due to poor customer service.

Mike D.
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  #11  
Old 06-15-2006, 02:55 PM
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derf derf is offline
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Had ignition control been an option on the Howell system, I would have bought one.

Instead, I'm doing the TBI install myself from junkyard parts.

Sure, it costs a little more but it's really not that hard to do. Just lock out the advance on your distributor and do a little wiring to get it to plug into an HEI module and you're in business.


Granted, I'm getting a little more sophisticated with my setup but if I wanted to stick with a Duraspark setup to save money, I would have.



Oh, and if you don't want to dig through a junkyard wiring harness, you can get one from Painless wiring (PN 60101 I do believe) and follow the instructions it comes with. It's a really good quality kit.
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Last edited by derf : 06-15-2006 at 03:00 PM.
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  #12  
Old 06-15-2006, 03:07 PM
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Bama Burden Bama Burden is offline
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Here's your Howell link: www.howell-efi.com

As for junkyard GM, do a search. There is a plethora.
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  #13  
Old 06-15-2006, 10:23 PM
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Woodchomper Woodchomper is offline
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Today while I was at my local jeep shop I got a chance to look at a Painless TBI wiring harness. Derf was exactly right when he stated that it is a quality kit. Good instructions and labels marking every connection. So, for probably less than the price of the Howell kit you could build your own TBI system and have ignition control also. Of course this will mean that you will also learn a ton about GM TBI fuel injection.

I'm still in the learning process but today I troubleshot a wiring problem (code 42) on my friend's S10 truck in about 15 min. This friend had a local Midas shop replace the distributor, map sensor, and plug wires with no luck in clearing his check engine light.

Good luck on whatever you decide.
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  #14  
Old 06-16-2006, 06:23 AM
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derf derf is offline
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One other thing about that Painless kit that you don't get with a Howell. Computer Spark Control. The Painless kit comes with all the wiring you need to connect your distributor and ESC module to the computer.
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  #15  
Old 06-16-2006, 07:41 AM
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The PIG Smith The PIG Smith is offline
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Affordable EFI (http://www.affordable-fuel-injection.com/) has an AMC solution with Dizzy control.

From what I read and understand, their EFI Kits are based on GM components and using a modified external coil GM HEI Dizzy.

They have both Throttle Body and MPFI for AMC.

The bad part: ALSO, from what I've read and understand, if you get on the bad side of their customer service, you are on your own.

Anyone here using one these solutions?
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2005 Grand Cherokee Limited - HEMI! Current Daily Driver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayrodoh
...but if it works, I wouldn't touch it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindel
Best laid plans, yada yada yada...
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  #16  
Old 06-16-2006, 08:06 AM
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The PIG Smith The PIG Smith is offline
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Here a post I saved with some great info!
The credit this info goes The Anti-riced for collecting this:

Holley - proprietary parts, some very low quality, although Spectre has a cross reference for some.
No ignition control.
Analog systems contantly going out of tune, digital systems seem to be more stable.
Both need optional closed loop kit for best perfomance.
If Walmart made a kit, this would be it.
http://www.holley.com/division/Holley.asp

Howell - good quality, GM parts, good customer service.
No ignition control
Very pricy for what you get but the least amount of hassle.
http://www.howellefi.com/shop/customer/home.php

Affordable-fuel-injection (AFI) - refurb GM parts.
Optional computer controlled ignition
History of DOA parts
Customer service runs hot and cold. Get on their bad side and you are on your own.
http://www.affordable-fuel-injection.com/

CustomEFIS - refurb GM parts
History of DOA parts and mis-wired harnesses
Computer controlled ignition
Lots of options
Lousy customer service.
Used to be one of the best companies to deal with, now the worst.
Takes a deposit, you wait up to a year for the kit then he disappears when it's time to tune.
http://www.customefis.com/

D-I-Y - this is where you end up within a couple of months after buying either of the last two kits
or are a cheap bastard that likes to tinker and is electrically fearless.
Costs less than half of any of the kits, longer to install
GM parts, computer controlled ignition, any option you want.
Totally on your own (with help from some forums) for tuning and programming.

Megasquirt - this can use GM parts with an open source custom ecm.
Good community support.
If something dies while you are on vacation you are looking for a soldering iron, a radio shack, a schematic and luck, instead of a NAPA.
http://www.megasquirt.info/
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2005 Grand Cherokee Limited - HEMI! Current Daily Driver
1982 J10: Stalled Project.
1981 J20: Commercial flat bed. Lost in Divorce
1987 J20 Pioneer: Former 'Ricbee' plow rig. RUST!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayrodoh
...but if it works, I wouldn't touch it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindel
Best laid plans, yada yada yada...
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  #17  
Old 06-16-2006, 08:45 AM
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Serious Johnson Serious Johnson is offline
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Just to be clear,if your AMC already has Duraspark ignition, there's no need to adapt HEI. Just lock-out the mechanical & vacuum advance on the stock distributor, ditch the stinkin' stock control module, splice-in the wires, and let the ECU handle everything. Works fine, and nothing extra to buy.

S.J.
__________________
"Carpe Mañana".

'83 Wagoneer
360, .030-over, K8600 cam, Crane springs, ported heads, Edelbrock Performer, G.M. TBI, TFI, 3" exhaust,
T-18a/208, D44/AMC 20 w/ limited slip in both, 3.73s, 33s, BDS 4" springs, Rancho 9000 shocks, etc., etc.
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  #18  
Old 06-16-2006, 08:57 AM
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derf derf is offline
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Location: Littleton, CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Johnson
Just to be clear,if your AMC already has Duraspark ignition, there's no need to adapt HEI. Just lock-out the mechanical & vacuum advance on the stock distributor, ditch the stinkin' stock control module, splice-in the wires, and let the ECU handle everything. Works fine, and nothing extra to buy.

S.J.

The only thing to add to that is to recommend a TFI upgrade if it's not already been done. TFI upgrade is compatible with TBI.
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  #19  
Old 06-16-2006, 12:08 PM
mountainbees mountainbees is offline
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WOW this forum rocks! Ok you guys have inspired me to try the boneyard GM route, the reasons being if I can't get tech support from the folks that sell the kits why pay for it? Alright I admit I'm also cheap . So it seems I have a lot to learn about GM TBI systems. My cheap side tells me to keep my Duraspark dizzy and lock it out on the advance as suggested. Humm, how do I do that? I aslo need to buy a painless wireing harness to plug the GM ECU into my Duraspark dizzy so I can ditch the stock module. That sounds like it will keep things neat and simple. When I get to the boneyard and locate a 1987-1995 GM what all do I need to buy off it? I know I need:
ECU, O2 sensor, electric fuel pump, TBI, I will also need a block off plate for my old fuel pump.What else?
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87 Grand Wagoneer
BJ's 6" lift
TFI upgrade
BJ's sway bar disconnects
BJ rock sliders
K&N air filter
All my factory gauges actually work (for now)
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  #20  
Old 06-16-2006, 12:30 PM
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Woodchomper Woodchomper is offline
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Cheap side...Looks like you're one of us! Although I guess if you didn't think like most poeple on this forum you would have been asking,"Where should I take my Wag to get fuel injection installed."

Anyway, Try to find an 87-95 GM 5.7L donor truck with the 7747 ECM. Starting from the ECM, remove the wiring harness and all sensors attached to it.

For the fuel pump you will need an external pump (non-junkyard item).

The Painless wiring harness is not a required piece it is really more of a timesaver. I plan on using a GM harness. I'll only go to the Painless harness if stripping down the GM harness is too much of a pain.
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