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  #1  
Old 09-29-2020, 12:23 AM
onre onre is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Sep 10, 2020
Location: Toijala, Finland
Posts: 8
Greetings from Finland

Hi all,


We're fixing up a '73 Wagoneer with 258 and 3-speed manual. It's an old fire brigade vehicle. Here's an old photo of it circa 1980:





The hi-viz paint hasn't aged well and is peeling away on the most sun-exposed areas, here's how it looks like now:





Between us and the fire brigade there was one private owner who managed to drive about 2000 km in fifteen years.



The body and frame are pretty solid for a 47-year-old vehicle. I've found a grand total of two rust spots that need fresh sheet metal - tailgate corner and driver's side rear wheel well. The rest is just surface rust - wire wheel, epoxy primer and some decent topcoat should take care of it. The vehicle has been painted Butterscotch Gold at factory so that's our colour of choice too.


As it arrived, the engine had rough idle and erratic high rpm behaviour and it did not charge. Also the transmission makes a sort of rustling sound - probably rebuild time. Previous owner had new brakes done just before "the engine became weak".



So far we've put in a 63A Delco alternator, swapped almost all rubber hoses, changed probably 20-year-old oil + filter. Also we've dismantled a couple of generations of fire brigade electric installations with some interesting properties, such as having the fuses last in the circuit before the ground instead of just after battery. Well, I suppose the firemen are used to putting out fires. The good thing here is that all of their wiring is completely separate from factory wiring.



I've done compression test on the engine, no problems there. Weakness seems to be caused by the Carter YF having given up the ghost, and apparently in the process of trying to fix this someone had misadjusted the ignition timing somewhere like 15 degrees after TDC. After resetting ignition timing it turned better, but the Carter is still giving us trouble. Even with fresh repair kit installed it does not work like it should - there's intermittent flooding and other misbehaviour that just does not make sense when the needle valve is new, everything is carefully cleaned etc. Our best guess is that something in the body is either worn or warped in a way that prevents normal operation. We've thought of replacing it with a Weber because that's way more familiar to us and could possibly get slightly better mpg too.


So that was a long way of saying "hello"!
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  #2  
Old 09-29-2020, 03:58 PM
Heep-J4000's Avatar
Heep-J4000 Heep-J4000 is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Feb 09, 2014
Location: Schoorl ,the Nederlands
Posts: 203
Hello and welcome on here!

Your jeep is looking good
This forum is old school as it can be , but lots of info and cool things to find!

Enjoy your time here and would be nice to update from time to time what you are doing with or at the jeep

Cheers from Holland
Mees
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  #3  
Old 09-29-2020, 04:09 PM
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Heep-J4000 Heep-J4000 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 09, 2014
Location: Schoorl ,the Nederlands
Posts: 203
Talking about carburators , there are Weber kit's available for the 258 engines on the web.

I'm no carb expert , but did convert my jeep j4000 with 360 V8 to lpg 14 years ago and driven it daily for work.

Now that the 360 is tired and done and the truck is in need of some tlc ,I'm working on a complete truck rebuild with Cummins 12 valve and nv4500/np205 combo
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Jeep "because mother nature hates flat roads to"
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  #4  
Old 09-30-2020, 02:16 AM
onre onre is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Sep 10, 2020
Location: Toijala, Finland
Posts: 8
Thanks!


I like old school forums, don't get me even started on what's wrong about the "social media" of today...


I think we'll put a Weber DGV on the engine - we've been talking with a local importer and he's been really helpful with the project. We've figured out correct adapter flanges to retain the stock air cleaner housing and to make it fit on the 1 bbl intake manifold, and should have fairly good idea of what jet sizes to try first. I'll report how it turns out.


Also on the agenda is repairing the tailgate regulator. The problem is that the large cog that sits between the reduction gear and the another large cog has a few missing teeth. Regulators are expensive, I have a lot of time in my hands and figured that I could try repairing it. Plan as of now: carefully cut away the missing teeth and some of the cog, making a sort of wedge shape opening with the wider end towards the middle of the cog. Then, cut a brass plate of appropriate thickness and carefully file it into correct shape so it fits into the cog like a jigsaw puzzle piece. Then, recreate the teeth on this piece of brass. When finished, silver solder it in place. Dunno whether brass is too soft for this though - shouldn't be? I hope the explanation made sense
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  #5  
Old 09-30-2020, 07:44 AM
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Heep-J4000 Heep-J4000 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 09, 2014
Location: Schoorl ,the Nederlands
Posts: 203
Is the tailgate electric or hand powered?

Here is more information about the electric wagoneer tailgate
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=176327

If its hand powered , maybe it's easier to find parts in better shape from someone on here or eBay.
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  #6  
Old 09-30-2020, 09:01 AM
onre onre is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Sep 10, 2020
Location: Toijala, Finland
Posts: 8
Hand powered version. Most FSJs in Finland are of later vintage and have electric versions. There is a local retailer who has NOS regulators in stock, I'm just trying to save some money and get to do some fabrication which is always fun. You know, the variant of DIY called DIYF - do it yourself first.
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  #7  
Old 09-30-2020, 11:49 AM
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SOLSAKS SOLSAKS is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Jul 25, 2016
Location: Benson. NC
Posts: 1,458
WELCOME,....nice FSJ !!! dave.
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1976 J-10 HONCHO Fleetside
1982 J-10 Fleetside
1988 grand wagoneer
2004 RUBICON jeep
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  #8  
Old 09-30-2020, 02:20 PM
Heep-J4000's Avatar
Heep-J4000 Heep-J4000 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 09, 2014
Location: Schoorl ,the Nederlands
Posts: 203
Quote:
Originally Posted by onre
Hand powered version. Most FSJs in Finland are of later vintage and have electric versions. There is a local retailer who has NOS regulators in stock, I'm just trying to save some money and get to do some fabrication which is always fun. You know, the variant of DIY called DIYF - do it yourself first.

If you decide to look for another regulator ,I could have a look for you over here in Holland.
I know a person close by were I live , and he has full size jeep parts from time to time.
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  #9  
Old 10-06-2020, 11:30 PM
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letank letank is offline
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Join Date: Jun 03, 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 3,945
Welcome to the asylum... very nice find.
I remember some 10 years ago the swedish army was selling of batch of over 20 or 30 J10 trucks in various configurations, biowarfare, ambulance and others...
I am sure somebody has a spare hand crank wheel for you, shipping from the land of oz could be a bit more than what you want to spend... albeit one of my friend is coming from France in 8 weeks... you can pick it up in Paris, France... the underground could make it work... Paris to the Netherlands... and so forth... do we have any Nobel prize winner going to Stockholm soon , only 502km to go to Toijala, ... one of them teaches in Berkeley, Calif... Reinhard Genzel... FSJ are close to black holes... they such all your cash...


A pict of the part would be helpful, so we know which one!
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74 wag, 349Kmiles on original ticker/trany, except for the rust. Will it make it to the next get together without a rebuilt? Status: needs a new body.
85 Gwag, 226 Kmiles. $250 FSJ test lab since 02, that refuses to give up but still leaks.

See Ouray 2013, Engine bits and Fuel and brake lines, and Body work

Last edited by letank : 10-06-2020 at 11:38 PM.
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  #10  
Old 10-07-2020, 11:47 AM
onre onre is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Sep 10, 2020
Location: Toijala, Finland
Posts: 8
Repair on the rear window regulator is already underway, I'll post pictures on Sunday. Keywords: filing, brazing, hillbilly
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  #11  
Old 10-11-2020, 12:00 AM
onre onre is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Sep 10, 2020
Location: Toijala, Finland
Posts: 8
Did not get to brazing because the MAPP torch we bought was defective - it'd only work properly when kept completely upright. Heating the brazing seam from below does not sound particularly attractive, and the thing should work in any position according to the package. Will return it on Monday.


However, we did take the tailgate off and find out that out of two guide rails for the window we have one MIA and another, well, present but not capable of service.





Took measurements and drilled off the rivets to get the fittings off. On the no-rail side the fittings were in place, but there was no trace of the rail. Applied wire wheel and some rust converter base coat:






The planned repair on the big cog wasn't possible because of the defective torch, but I did file off some of the bad tooth earlier. After this pic I filed off a couple more, but forgot to take a pic. Here's how it looked like in between:







The idea is to braze a piece of brass in place and file the gear profile into that.



Out of curiosity I decided to try making a negative mold of the gear profile so that I'd have a reference piece for comparison when filing down the brass piece. I attached a piece of plastic on the side of the cogwheel, applied a light layer of engine oil on cog + piece of plastic to prevent body filler from attaching into them and then just applied liberal amounts of filler on the profile. It turned out pretty good:





Or at least good enough to get the tooth spacing right.


Will continue on this sometime next week...
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  #12  
Old 10-11-2020, 09:40 AM
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Be from Be Be from Be is offline
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Join Date: Jan 28, 2017
Location: Belgium
Posts: 57
Good to see another 'European ' FSJ on the forum.
Good luck with your projest.
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  #13  
Old 10-11-2020, 12:25 PM
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chubbinius chubbinius is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: Oct 31, 2018
Location: San Diego
Posts: 228
Welcome to the forums, Onre. That's a great start and I really like the wisdom of molding the gear profile to help while patching the cog!

Lots of great information and wonderful folks here. We will all enjoy seeing your work and efforts.
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  #14  
Old 10-24-2020, 09:32 AM
onre onre is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Sep 10, 2020
Location: Toijala, Finland
Posts: 8
I brazed some fresh brass on the broken cog so that I have something to work on. In hindsight I could have replaced a couple of teeth more, the one on the right side of the new brass piece is rather deformed.





The MAPP torch I was using wasn't powerful enough to properly heat parts this big, so instead of nice and easy brazing it was more like a fight to get a particular spot hot enough for the silver to penetrate. The piece does hold in there, though. I did try to bend it off with large pliers and it wasn't going anywhere.


I took the mold piece and filed off the other side, too, to make it easier to use.





Then began the actual dentistry with different hand files as the weapons of choice. Every time I made a new tooth, I tried out the mechanism and marked how far it goes this time. It was surprisingly easy to get the profiles close enough for the mechanism to work.





Not beautiful, but it does work, and it's going inside the tailgate so I do not have to see it every time I drive the car.


Next; finish the guard rails, install them and make the part where the actual window attachs to.
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  #15  
Old 10-24-2020, 09:46 AM
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chubbinius chubbinius is offline
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Join Date: Oct 31, 2018
Location: San Diego
Posts: 228
That's a really sharp looking repair! Very nice work.
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-Dauntless 350 V8
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  #16  
Old 10-24-2020, 12:03 PM
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DarkMonohue DarkMonohue is offline
Shakes hands with danger
 
Join Date: Jul 01, 2012
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,100
Welcome! Interesting build. I have a soft spot for spartan fleet vehicles like this one.

Are you Finnish or are you an ex-pat living in Finland? When I read your posts, I don't hear a Hannu or a Timo speaking.
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  #17  
Old 10-24-2020, 11:00 PM
onre onre is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Sep 10, 2020
Location: Toijala, Finland
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkMonohue
Welcome! Interesting build. I have a soft spot for spartan fleet vehicles like this one.

Are you Finnish or are you an ex-pat living in Finland? When I read your posts, I don't hear a Hannu or a Timo speaking.


Hah! Apparently you know of the legendary rally video. I'm a native Finn with some international background, my family lived abroad when I was a teenager and at one point I even attended a US junior high for a semester in a military base in South Korea.
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  #18  
Old 10-29-2020, 12:51 PM
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rang-a-stang rang-a-stang is offline
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Join Date: Oct 31, 2016
Location: Camarillo, CA
Posts: 3,790
I think it looks great AS IS!!! Nice find! I think the paint finish is super cool! I super respect your ability to fix that window lift mechanism.
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