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Old 07-26-2017, 04:57 PM
VicSierra VicSierra is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Dec 08, 2015
Location: Texas
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HELP! Early Gladiator Dana 44 Drum/Hub Removal - Replacement - Installation

Howdy y'all, new here to the forum. I have been reading for a while and I am enjoying all the reading. Now I have a 1969 J-2000 Gladiator that had a d44 front and rear, I am redoing the whole brake system as It hasn't ran on pavement since 1991, basically before I was even a thought.

This was the first time I ever had to work on these old axles or even any 4 wheel drive vehicle like this with locking hubs. So I wish to ask for guidance on doing the front drums, I bought the book but it isn't helping me with it. Neither with the rears which ultimately lead me to bend/destroy both tapered hubs in the process all because the drums wouldn't separate and I had no idea that I couldn't replace the studs with my trusty hammer. Everything I read said it was supposed to at least separate but it didn't work out..

But before I jump headfirst into the fronts I was looking to see if anyone could fill me in on a detailed instruction on how to do these, I have read countless threads but they aren't too keen on dealing with those who have no experience in these AT ALL. I would like the help of this great forum to guide me start to finish on what I need to know LIKE what tools I need for removing the locking hubs and if I can separate the drum from the hub to put the new drums I have by myself or do I need to take it to a shop to press them out and can I expect that the studs are definitely not replaceable and I should just send back the ones I got from rockauto.

I've already replaced every single piece of hardware in both the rear drums, nothing difficult there as I have done drums before, these I can say were easier than most. BUT I also haven't gotten my hubs in yet as it takes 4wp 7 to 10 days to get them so do I need any tips or tricks on putting the new drums on or will I eventually run into the same problem late where they will just want to stick together? I am also to believe that the nut on the rears is supposed to be in the ballpark of 140-160 lb ft. Torque?

Any more information on these would be great; I really would like to know about these axles in depth, anything that I should know about them that you would tell yourself had you known prior would be greatly appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 07-27-2017, 09:11 AM
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Frank Ziebert Frank Ziebert is offline
327 Rambler
 
Join Date: Dec 04, 2016
Location: Sisters, OR
Posts: 527
One of the most useful things I can offer is to check Amazon for a Factory Sevice Manual. I got one for my 70 restoration and it has been invaluable. Once you study a particular section say on brakes--then stuff you read in thus forum will make a lot more sense.
Good luck with the project!

Last edited by Frank Ziebert : 07-27-2017 at 05:52 PM.
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  #3  
Old 07-27-2017, 12:23 PM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Location: Medford MA USA
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Here's one source for the factory manual - http://www.bjsoffroad.com/1967-1971-...al_p_1055.html - BJs will give you a modest discount as a member of this forum.

RockAuto also sells this manual as a printed copy, or on CD-ROM (cheapest). Be sure to get the original factory manual, not the Haynes or Chiltons generic manual.

The only complaint about these manuals is the transfer quality may not be the greatest, and some of the pictures may be less readable an an original copy of the manual. However, the manuals I've bought from BJs have been very good quality. If you watch eBay, you may find one of the original manuals for sale.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
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  #4  
Old 07-27-2017, 12:49 PM
joe joe is offline
 
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If interested I've got an "original" Kaiser TSM for your year, p/n SM 1042. I'm no book collector/appraiser, but I would call it very good to excellent condition. If interested PM me.
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  #5  
Old 07-27-2017, 02:26 PM
VicSierra VicSierra is offline
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Join Date: Dec 08, 2015
Location: Texas
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Thanks all for the responses, I have already gotten a CD copy of the 67-71 FSM from rockauto as tgreese cited. It definitely helps but for my questions it doesn't give me a full answer. Even for the rears it just says plainly and without much detail "remove drums" but they didn't go like that for the backs.. then it goes into everything else and it gives specialty tool numbers for ones not sold anymore and not so good pictures of them to reference. I found torque information finally though.
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  #6  
Old 07-27-2017, 04:01 PM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
Join Date: May 29, 2003
Location: Medford MA USA
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You realize that the hub and drum comes off the spindle as a unit? That's typically how its done. You put the hub and drum into the brake lathe together. Usually this vintage has drums that are swaged to the lug bolts and you need a cutter to separate them. But there is no need to separate if you can reuse the drums.

The axles and brakes of the trucks are just like the CJs in this era. All the Jeep closed knuckle front axles are basically the same. Take a look at this thread and see if it answers your questions - http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index...-removal.8880/
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk

Last edited by tgreese : 07-27-2017 at 04:08 PM.
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  #7  
Old 07-27-2017, 04:26 PM
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44BZ 44BZ is offline
304 AMC
 
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Location: oregon city, or
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Get one of these to remove the drums. https://www.amazon.com/TruePower-20-...rds=hub+puller

It's probably a good idea to replace your wheel studs anyway, but banging them out with a hammer is a lot of work and risks damage.

I covered all of this in my build thread, but the photos are gone because of stupid Photobucket. http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=135665
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Zack - 68 J2000, AMC 327, 4bbl intake, dual exhaust, Pertronix upgrade, Holley 600cfm, T18, dana 20 (twin sticked), 3" body lift w/ 35x12.50 MTRs ~ running AND driving!
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  #8  
Old 07-27-2017, 04:31 PM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Location: Medford MA USA
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You don't need a puller for the front drums. Lot of text to wade through in his original post, but it seems he's focused on the fronts now.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk
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  #9  
Old 07-27-2017, 04:48 PM
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44BZ 44BZ is offline
304 AMC
 
Join Date: Dec 10, 2009
Location: oregon city, or
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgreese
You don't need a puller for the front drums. Lot of text to wade through in his original post, but it seems he's focused on the fronts now.

Oops, sorry. That puller is still good to have, I've used mine a few times now.
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Zack - 68 J2000, AMC 327, 4bbl intake, dual exhaust, Pertronix upgrade, Holley 600cfm, T18, dana 20 (twin sticked), 3" body lift w/ 35x12.50 MTRs ~ running AND driving!
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  #10  
Old 07-27-2017, 05:00 PM
VicSierra VicSierra is offline
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Join Date: Dec 08, 2015
Location: Texas
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Thank you for that, now it makes sense as to why it didn't separate.. I made it happen but like I said not without damaging some stuff. So I guess the fronts are the same, I am not really comfortable with using 25+ year old turned drums so I guess I will have to just cut them loose rather than using a torch! Yes I used that very same puller for the rears but if the fronts don't need it I won't use it. But is there a special hub tool to remove the locking hub internals?
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  #11  
Old 07-27-2017, 05:50 PM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Location: Medford MA USA
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Budget swage cutter - http://www.earlycj5.net/xf_cj5/index...cutter.126187/

What kind of locking hubs do you have? It matters. Pic.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk

Last edited by tgreese : 07-27-2017 at 05:58 PM.
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  #12  
Old 07-27-2017, 06:02 PM
VicSierra VicSierra is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Dec 08, 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 21
International Harvester I assume, it has an H with the i in the middle. I'll take a picture

Last edited by VicSierra : 07-27-2017 at 06:38 PM.
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  #13  
Old 07-27-2017, 06:39 PM
VicSierra VicSierra is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Dec 08, 2015
Location: Texas
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I think the pictures will be too big for the forum so here are the links to the image hosting site ibb.
https://ibb.co/ktHeS5
https://ibb.co/bGgZuk
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  #14  
Old 07-28-2017, 05:44 AM
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tgreese tgreese is offline
 
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Location: Medford MA USA
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Warn, branded IHC. These are easy and simple to remove. Don't be gun-shy here - remove the dial and there is a snap ring underneath (usually - sometimes the snap rings are missing - does not affect function.) Unbolt and slide off.

You aren't going to find a step-by-step discussion of every procedure on an old car like this. J-trucks are oddballs in the automotive world, and you can't expect a YouTube video for every possible procedure. The FSM is your best source; it is written for the line mechanics at the dealerships, and assumes that you have enough savvy that they don't need to describe every little step.

You shouldn't need to ask when things come apart and go together with hand tools. You should have asked before hammering on the lug studs. The more force needed, the more potential for damage, and the more cautious you should be. Most would ask about the puller and how much force is needed to remove the rear drums - but there are plenty of old posts that discuss that, so you could have trusted your research and proceeded. You asked about the nut on the rear axle - there is a spec in the FSM which you could have looked up.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination ATs, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
ECO Green: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk

Last edited by tgreese : 07-28-2017 at 05:56 AM.
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  #15  
Old 08-01-2017, 07:24 PM
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lkmarsh lkmarsh is offline
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Location: Modesto CA
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The factory never meant for the hub and drum to be separated. You bought them as a unit when the drum wore out. When I put discs on the front of my Wagoneer I cut off the lugs, ground them down to the drum mount surface and then drove out the remnants. If your new lugs have the same length of knurling as stock, your new(?) drums will be a tight fit but nothing as tough as getting them off the hub. Later year Dana 44 with discs is sounding better all the time, yes? Ford hub and rotor will let you keep five lug rims. Too much work here for front drum brakes. Google Dana 27 disc conversion.
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Seemed like a good idea at the time...
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  #16  
Old 08-05-2017, 08:12 AM
VicSierra VicSierra is offline
230 Tornado
 
Join Date: Dec 08, 2015
Location: Texas
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Thanks tgreese and lkmarsh. I will say the new studs and drums I have are made to separate when you need to service them, the holes on the drums are not as small so they don't swedge with each other when installed. The rears were exactly in the manual as tgreese said, 150-175 lb ft. And thanks again to lkmarsh for the idea for removing the studs, I may end up doing something similar now that I have them off, the hub bearings were trashed and not so pretty so I got some Timken set45s for the inner and outer for both sides and a new inner seal.
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  #17  
Old 10-10-2018, 01:03 PM
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payne payne is offline
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Join Date: Jun 13, 2004
Location: Lynchburg VA
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1969 Wagoneer

The axles and brakes of the trucks are just like the CJs in this era. All the Jeep closed knuckle front axles are basically the same. Take a look at this thread and see if it answers your questions - http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index...-removal.8880/[/quote]


I'm searching for a hub for a rear axle on a 1969 Wagoneer. Any idea if hubs from Dana 44 axles from CJ's and trucks from the same era will fit?
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