International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tech Archives > Body

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-14-2003, 07:53 AM
Sitting Bull Sitting Bull is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Sep 18, 2000
Location: Atlanta, Ga, USA
Posts: 3,472
Post

This seems to be a popular swap, and one I just completed. Hopefully my experiences in doing the swap will help someone else. The swap was performed on a 79 front clip from a Cherokee, but should be the same for all 79 through 91 Grand Waggies.

Note: The process "should" be the same on the eggrate style grilles, though I'm not 100% positive.

Parts you will need...
Razor Grille with the headlight inserts (one from each side)
Round Headlight Buckets (from the same model)
Headlight trim rings (these are used to mount the light to the bucket)
Hood trim bar (horizontal bar across the hood "cowl")
Hood latch (from the same model, there are other options too, see below)
Some sheet metal screws, about 1/4" by 1.5" long
Sticky-back weatherstripping, from a hardware store in the door seal section. I used 1/2 wide by 1/2" thick poly seal.

Specialty tools...
If you've been looking for an excuse to buy a Dremel, now is the time. It will make your life much easier. Pick up a cutting disk and some barrel grinders to go with it.

The process...
First, remove your old grille, headlights, and headlight buckets. Sell the old grille on here or on e-bay, one in great shape will get you about $40 to help offset the cost of the Razor.

The next step is to mount the round headlight buckets into the hole the old square ones were in. Make sure you get the orientation of the bucket correct. There are two screw adjusters to help with the orientation. One should be on the top and one should be towards the middle.

You'll quickly find out that the new round buckets wount mount, they are not big enough to hit the mounting holes in the front clip. This is the hardest part of the installation, you'll need to fabricate some small brackets to use as spacers. In order for the lights to be centered properly on the "new" grille, the round buckets will need to be centered per the grille, not necessarily per the hole in the front clip. To get these lights properly centered, one of the holes in the front clip will mount directly to the bucket. For simplicity's sake, I'll only talk about the drivers side bucket, passenger side will be the reverse.

While standing in front of the bumper (to give the correct orientation), mount the headlight bucket to the bottom right hand existing hole on the clip. Now the headlight will rotate (moon shape) with the one connection. Obviously, as the bucket rotates, the distance from the tabs on the bucket to the holes in the clip change...so how do I know how long to make the tabs, you ask.. . The trick is to use the top left tab on the bucket, and align it with the top left tab on the clip. The spacing will be about 1/4" or so offset so you can't use the stock hole. There is enough pressure however for the headlight bucket to keep from rotating if you push the top left tab just behind the front-most sheet metal of the clip. Align it with the hole as closely as possible, this will give you the proper centering for the bucket. Now make two small brackets out of sheet metal or whatever else you have lying around to "extend" the bottom left tab on the bucket to the bottom left tab on the clip, and the same with the top right. These spacers need to be about 1" or so long, 1/2" or so wide, I'll let you get there exact dimensions. Just drill a hole in both sides of the brackets, and bolt the bucket in. I did not use the top left tab at all, three mounting points were sufficient to keep it from moving. The top left tab remains just behind the sheet metal. Go get the headlights, and mount them to the bucket using the headlight trim rings. OK, you're done with the hard part...

Next step is to mount the grille itself. I have a feeling that each installation will be somewhat different, some of the brackets used on Waggies will differ from year to year, but the process is basically the same. Loosely mount the new grille using the bolts along the top of the clip, these should remain the same throughout years. If you top bolts aren't aligning, I'd quit right there and consult with the group. The razor style grille mounts flush at the bottom of the clip. I didn't want the grille rubbing off the paint, so I put some stick-on weatherstripping at the bottom to space it up off the clip about 1/8" or so. You'll be able to adjust the spacing by how tight the screws are at the bottom.

Here's where the dremel comes in...some of the brackets that mounted your previous grille will keep the new grille from mounting flush. These brackets will need to be removed via dremel cut-off tool or you can drill out the spot welds. I put some matching paint where I cut off the old brackets to keep it from rusting in the future. You can't see the paint difference from behind the grille (trust me, I'm picky), so it doesn't have to be that close of a match. Once the tabs are removed, the grille should set flush with the clip. There are 4 (maybe 5) mounting holes in the razor grille at the bottom center section. I drilled through the front clip (with the grille on to make sure they are in the correct location) with an appropriatly sized drill bit for the sheet metal screws I used to mount the grille. The screws I used were approx. 1/4" by 1.5", with a bolt-style head. Make sure to get stainless steel fasteners. Drill the holes, mount the screws, and you are in business. There are two other holes in the grille just to the outside of the turn-signals, use the same process. Install the headlight trim inserts, and your done with the grille.

Next step is to mount the hood bar. I don't have any tricks to line it up correctly, you'll just have to eye it. If it's a little off, you can ream it out some with the dremel grinding bit. Due to the clips the bar mounts with, some reaming out of the holes will not reduce the it's "hold" to the hood. Mount the little support brackets to the hood, and your done.

That's assuming you are doing the swap to a mid-80's waggie with the pull release inside the cab. Make sure you will be able to access the release tab under the hood for proper access. If your doing a swap to a 79 (and possibly early 80's without the in-cab release), you'll need to swap in an 80's style hood release mechanism, or use the release mechanism design for the razor grille. I am opting to go to an 80's waggy style on my 79 to increase security of the engine parts (you need access to the cab to open the hood - lock your doors, you automatically lock the hood). Using the razor mechanism is accessed from the outside only, meaning anyone can easily get under your hood.

Hope that helps...PLEASE provide feedback so I can edit appropriately.

[ March 31, 2003, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: PC ]
__________________
Brad Reardon<br />1977ish Cherokee Chief.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-14-2003, 08:25 AM
gp_frk gp_frk is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Mar 27, 2002
Location: "American by birth, Texan by the grace of God!"
Posts: 2,708
Post

wanna delve farther?

What about swapping out the front radiator support and valance from an older "razor" rig?
__________________
Texas Full Size Jeep Association
www.tfsja.org
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-14-2003, 08:40 AM
billyrb's Avatar
billyrb billyrb is offline
BJ's Off-Road
 
Join Date: Aug 15, 2001
Location: Acworth, GA 30101
Posts: 10,060
Post

GP, if you do that, the two immediate issues are:

1. the battery tray will be relocated.....
2. you will have to use a smaller radiator....

correct me if I'm wrong, but I think those are the two differences between older rigs and newer ones......
__________________
BJ's Off-Road
ryan@bjsoffroad.com
Your source for '63-'91 FSJ Parts
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-14-2003, 08:47 AM
gp_frk gp_frk is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Mar 27, 2002
Location: "American by birth, Texan by the grace of God!"
Posts: 2,708
Post

ryan i dunno,

I have a 79 and have the core support and valance, buckets, trim piecee, bezels, and grill just havent tackled the job yet. I heard this was the better way to go from a few IRC members
__________________
Texas Full Size Jeep Association
www.tfsja.org
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-14-2003, 09:38 AM
Sitting Bull Sitting Bull is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Sep 18, 2000
Location: Atlanta, Ga, USA
Posts: 3,472
Post

Not too sure of the differences in the front clip other than the headlight bucket sizing. I don't think most people doing the swap will want to change the front clip...due to getting it shipped from wherever your getting the grille from would be way to much $$$, repainting it to match sun-faded paint would be more $$$, changing the radiator (if that's the case), etc. Just swapping the grilles takes about two hours (probably one hour if you really work hard). Changing the front clip would take a few days if you count the re-paint, and about the same amount of time after that. That's why I retained front clip I already had anyway. Simply swapping is much too simple...
__________________
Brad Reardon<br />1977ish Cherokee Chief.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-14-2003, 10:28 AM
CowKiller CowKiller is offline
FSJ Executioner
 
Join Date: Apr 03, 2002
Location: quakertown pa
Posts: 4,283
Post

what about swaping front clip out of a yard beast for a rhino grill. i though bout that. but i dont have to worry about paint.
__________________
Corey Zakeosian
2002 gmc 2500Hd duramax
2000 Ford f-550 work truck
1986 f350 6.9 diesel hp60 front, sterling 10.25 rear, 36x12.5 military wranglers. TOY!
NO JEEP
I am ready to meet my Maker. Wether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-14-2003, 01:22 PM
Tad's Avatar
Tad Tad is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 30, 2001
Location: Out West
Posts: 17,635
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by billyrb:
GP, if you do that, the two immediate issues are:

1. the battery tray will be relocated.....
2. you will have to use a smaller radiator....

correct me if I'm wrong, but I think those are the two differences between older rigs and newer ones......
1985 core support, valance and inner fender wells transplanted onto 1970.
Core Support = identical except the '85 has a few more holes in it. Battery location the same, moved mine 4" to right to make room for GM AC unit on the Buick 350 (also did the same mod to left inner fender to make space for dual batteries. Radiator bolted up just fine (I think the older narrower ones are from the original Rhino vehicles).
Valance = headlight bucket mounting modified as described by SB. Grill holes same on top but all in wrong place going down the front. It helps a lot to have the core support & valance out and up on a table to get the buckets centered properly but probably not a real practical idea for most folks unless you are taking it off anyway.

__________________
2000 Infinity QX4, 3.3L, MPFI, 4 speed auto, 2 speed Nissan tcase, Unibody, IFS front, 4 link rear solid axle with 255-70/16s

IFSJA WMS PROJECT
EARLY WAG LIFT SEARCH

Quote:
...Pay no attention to these heathen barbarians with their cutting torches and 8" lift kits!...

Self Inflicted Flesh Wound
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-14-2003, 02:05 PM
Sitting Bull Sitting Bull is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Sep 18, 2000
Location: Atlanta, Ga, USA
Posts: 3,472
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by tadsal:
It helps a lot to have the core support & valance out and up on a table to get the buckets centered properly
.
.
I found an easy way to center the headlights after the third or fourth try. I'll write it up once I verify which hole is re-used for proper centering (I remember it's one of the bottom ones, just not sure if it's the inside or outside, I'll verify tomorrow in the light).
__________________
Brad Reardon<br />1977ish Cherokee Chief.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-14-2003, 04:49 PM
slewfoot slewfoot is offline
Grease Monkey
 
Join Date: Oct 02, 2002
Location: Ogden Utah
Posts: 312
Post

as far as the radiators go I have one out of my 66 that has been in a 76 then a 78 followed my 73 pickups now its in a 81 waggie limited so since the 66 was a rino grill I dont think it matters much all the 3 cores have been the same.

[ February 14, 2003, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: slewfoot ]
__________________
from the flames of hell to the gates of glory God Bless them all
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-15-2003, 12:14 AM
billyrb's Avatar
billyrb billyrb is offline
BJ's Off-Road
 
Join Date: Aug 15, 2001
Location: Acworth, GA 30101
Posts: 10,060
Post

Guys, thanks for correcting me. The reason that I posted those concerns is because I have someone repairing a jeep that I am buying from them in a few weeks....it's a 67 wag. The front valance originally had a razor grille, but was toasted in a wreck. So, the front valance, grille, and radiator all had to be replaced. They used an early 80's wag for the donor parts, and those problems came up. I figured that was across the board, but I now see that it isn't. Maybe it applied to those specific years. Does anyone know if those changes occured when AMC switched from the 327 to the 350 or the 360?
__________________
BJ's Off-Road
ryan@bjsoffroad.com
Your source for '63-'91 FSJ Parts
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-15-2003, 01:33 AM
Tad's Avatar
Tad Tad is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 30, 2001
Location: Out West
Posts: 17,635
Post

I think one of the Yuma folks (PC or Midnight Wagon) has the narrower radiator, 65/67 can't remember, just remember the post about switching core supports. They are both active duty now so probably are not going to catch this.
__________________
2000 Infinity QX4, 3.3L, MPFI, 4 speed auto, 2 speed Nissan tcase, Unibody, IFS front, 4 link rear solid axle with 255-70/16s

IFSJA WMS PROJECT
EARLY WAG LIFT SEARCH

Quote:
...Pay no attention to these heathen barbarians with their cutting torches and 8" lift kits!...

Self Inflicted Flesh Wound
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-15-2003, 01:37 AM
Tad's Avatar
Tad Tad is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 30, 2001
Location: Out West
Posts: 17,635
Post

Did find this from Miked
Core Support Link

[ February 15, 2003, 07:37 AM: Message edited by: tadsal ]
__________________
2000 Infinity QX4, 3.3L, MPFI, 4 speed auto, 2 speed Nissan tcase, Unibody, IFS front, 4 link rear solid axle with 255-70/16s

IFSJA WMS PROJECT
EARLY WAG LIFT SEARCH

Quote:
...Pay no attention to these heathen barbarians with their cutting torches and 8" lift kits!...

Self Inflicted Flesh Wound
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-16-2003, 12:39 AM
billyrb's Avatar
billyrb billyrb is offline
BJ's Off-Road
 
Join Date: Aug 15, 2001
Location: Acworth, GA 30101
Posts: 10,060
Post

10-4, my friend. That clears it up, as we knew the radiators were different sizes....I guess that would also affect the battery tray from that year as well. Anywho, they are minor mods IMHO to get a different grille and a different look!
__________________
BJ's Off-Road
ryan@bjsoffroad.com
Your source for '63-'91 FSJ Parts
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-18-2003, 07:22 AM
billyrb's Avatar
billyrb billyrb is offline
BJ's Off-Road
 
Join Date: Aug 15, 2001
Location: Acworth, GA 30101
Posts: 10,060
Post

I noticed that one of the items listed was a replacement hood latch.....is that required only for certain year rigs, or is it mandatory when swapping to razor/egg crate grilles that you change out the hood latch?
__________________
BJ's Off-Road
ryan@bjsoffroad.com
Your source for '63-'91 FSJ Parts
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-18-2003, 07:32 AM
Sitting Bull Sitting Bull is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Sep 18, 2000
Location: Atlanta, Ga, USA
Posts: 3,472
Post

Ryan,

Sorry I haven't had a chance to finish the write-up yet. Just one of those things...

Great question! You will need the hood latch handle and hoodlatch "engager" (cross bar that goes from pin to pin) when going from a model that does not have a hood release cable (79, for example). I'm pretty sure that if you have a release cable, you won't need the part. I'm going to verify it on Bill's Jeep, then I'll add it to the write-up.

Basically, I'm trying to make the write-up as thorough as possible for future archiving. This has been my intention for the whole TOM idea. You really don't have time to do a full write up when someone asks the question (at least I don't), so I am trying to do a really, really good write-up for future SJ'ers to come to.

More questions and suggestions on what I have so far is VERY welcome.
__________________
Brad Reardon<br />1977ish Cherokee Chief.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-18-2003, 07:40 AM
billyrb's Avatar
billyrb billyrb is offline
BJ's Off-Road
 
Join Date: Aug 15, 2001
Location: Acworth, GA 30101
Posts: 10,060
Post

btw, like the addendum to the rig description in my sig?
__________________
BJ's Off-Road
ryan@bjsoffroad.com
Your source for '63-'91 FSJ Parts
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 02-18-2003, 08:16 AM
Sitting Bull Sitting Bull is offline
FSJ Maniac
 
Join Date: Sep 18, 2000
Location: Atlanta, Ga, USA
Posts: 3,472
Post

Nice...I've acturally got something in common with that statement. It seems my newly acquired Step-grandmother-in-law has a 67 Waggie she bought new. It died in the late 70's, and it's been sitting in her pasture ever since...no kidding. Haven't seen it yet, but the price is right (free), and it's 100% original. Should be an interesting trip this summer...
__________________
Brad Reardon<br />1977ish Cherokee Chief.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 02-18-2003, 08:38 AM
billyrb's Avatar
billyrb billyrb is offline
BJ's Off-Road
 
Join Date: Aug 15, 2001
Location: Acworth, GA 30101
Posts: 10,060
Post

are you kidding me? That ROCKS!
__________________
BJ's Off-Road
ryan@bjsoffroad.com
Your source for '63-'91 FSJ Parts
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 02-18-2003, 02:36 PM
BIG BAD JON BIG BAD JON is offline
4-Wheel Drive Junky
 
Join Date: Jan 20, 2002
Location: COMANCHE, OKLAHOMA
Posts: 2,257
Post

TadSal sent me my grille. Dont know what model/year it was off of. Here is my list of parts used:

Razor Grille of unknown year or origin
Headlights from 76 Wagoneer
Headlight Buckets from 67 Gladiator
Headlight Bezels painted black from 76 Wagoneer

I mounted the grille as normal across the top of the cowl, painted the bezels, swapped headlights and buckets, Attatched bezels at two mounting points pre-existing on grille and drilled holes and zip-tied the bottom of the bezels, drilled holes in the cowl to mount using pre-existing holes in grille, and laughed at how redneck rigged it is. [img]redface.gif[/img] Oh well, looks good. Look here-&gt; http://photos.yahoo.com/jonx4x4

[ February 18, 2003, 08:45 PM: Message edited by: BIG BAD JON ]
__________________
FSJ-Less...
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-19-2003, 05:15 AM
Tad's Avatar
Tad Tad is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 30, 2001
Location: Out West
Posts: 17,635
Post

Quote:
Originally posted by BIG BAD JON:
...TadSal sent me my grille. Dont know what model/year it was off of...
That was the original grill from my 1970 that got replace when MtnGoat gave me the newer razor off a late 70's Cherokee.
__________________
2000 Infinity QX4, 3.3L, MPFI, 4 speed auto, 2 speed Nissan tcase, Unibody, IFS front, 4 link rear solid axle with 255-70/16s

IFSJA WMS PROJECT
EARLY WAG LIFT SEARCH

Quote:
...Pay no attention to these heathen barbarians with their cutting torches and 8" lift kits!...

Self Inflicted Flesh Wound
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner