Narrowed it down I guess

[Woodchomper]

I like your thinking. The nice thing about the Fitech system is that the equipment is all new and not rebuilt or re-manufactured. When I looked on the Fitech site I couldn't find much info on the timing option. I was hoping to find a link with an install manual but didn't find it.

As you know there is no one right answer for the best aftermarket fuel injection system. What works for one person may not be the best for another person.

I personally would like to learn more about the Fitech offering and its capabilities. So, if you go this route please take plenty of pictures of your install and keep us posted on your progress.

[asudchiman]

This has been a great thread, and I have to admit...

I am still as confused as I was before as to what (if anything) I will do to mine, but I have definitely learned more about EFI.

[babywag]

2a if I understand this, the Fitech learns as you drive and adjusts automatically for best performance by sniffing its own waste with a wide and o2 sensor and adjusting till it's clean. No programming needed just answer a few basic ? Before Initial startup like engine size, mods, wheels etc... It will sense driving habits and create its own personal tune based on driving habits and engine wear

Again ALL fuel injection systems are learning, self adjusting, whatever you wanna call it, isn't anything new.
The GM based TBI system I'm running on my '90 could be called "self tuning", but that wouldn't be a 100% truthful statement.
I could also say the '94 LT1 Caprice in my driveway is self tuning, or my wife's 2009 Dodge Charger.
They all learn and adjust "tune themselves" every time they are driven.

Fitech however does spin/market theirs as "self tuning". HUGE stretch of the truth.

No aftermarket system is "self tuning", every aftermarket FI system I have ever seen/read anything on needs tuning.
Whether it's with a laptop or punching things into a handheld controller it is still tuning.
The Fitech simplifies the process by creating a tune for you, but additional tuning will likely be required. Will it work yes, will it work better with tuning YES.

If it was truly a "self tuning" system you wouldn't have to do anything other than take it out of the box and install it.

The beauty of them is they are great for someone who doesn't want to "tune", yet they will likely need to anyway.

They look cool, and are pretty low cost honestly....
UNTIL you add on their extras.
Need a fuel system capable of 800HP no problem +$395.
Don't need 800HP fuel system, no problem buy the $245 system.
Want to add timing control, no problem, buy the more expensive model(s).
Want to be able to tune with laptop, "^^".

It's really too bad they don't sell the 400hp model w/ timing control and laptop tuning. Would be a real nice system IMHO.

[Woodchomper]

Last night I did a google search on FiTech EFI and found a couple of installs. There was a 15 page install on a BuickV8 forum. As you can imagine the system was not without problems.

Here is what I think I know about the system:
1. Built in fan control - Good.
2. Uses WB02 for feedback - This is good.
3. Self-contained electronics baking on top of the intake manifold - Bad.
4. No Vehicle Speed Sensor input - Bad. The system will not know if you are idling in your driveway, going 65 down the highway, or slowing down as you approach a stop at a light.
5. No Park/Neutral wiring - Bad. This means no separate fueling controls for idling and driving.
6. The add-on fuel sump system is somewhat problematic. If you use this sump make sure to have a separate 12V supply feed to the sump. Use a relay triggered by the FiTech to power the sump.
7. Add-on timing controls - Questionable. My gut feel is that the timing maps are limited. You may be better off keeping your distributor.

The throttle body unit of this system looks real cool but I'm afraid the system itself still has some growing to do before it can be as good as what you could get from a GM TBI or Megasquirt system. I would love to get my hands on a cheap used Fitech 4 injector throttle body. If I did I would gut the electronics out of it and drive it with a modified GM ECM.

One last thing. A friend's father paid big bucks to install a MSD Atomic EFI on '65 Corvette. The system was so easy to install that the local speed shop did the work. Anyway, the Vette has stalling/rough running issues on deceleration and there is nothing the shop can do to fix it. The problem may eventually be fixable but it will have to be fixed by someone that actually knows what they are doing.

[babywag]

My thinking is pretty much the same, the ECU may fail it may be just a matter of time, but it's lifetime warranty on just ECU.
There are good reasons the OEM's have always mounted the ECU's away from the engine.

I have read that tuning with the handheld is somewhat limited compared to other systems that us DIY guys are used to.
The fuel/spark maps are only 3x3? using the handheld from what I have read.
I have yet to see anyone do a review or post about the software available for tuning on the higher priced models.
Pictures of the TB online, show GM parts for IAC/TPS...and documentation/ info online suggests all GM parts are used.
There are several thread about folks not being able to get certain things to run right.
Some of the issues may be resolved if access to more of the settings or software tuning was available on the lower priced models??

I would also LOVE to get just the throttle body, and control it with an 16197427, EBL or MS?
I think they're missing a sector of the market, and should produce a 150-300hp system w/ timing control & laptop tuning.
Not everyone has a need for a 400hp or 600hp capable system. Bigger is not better with a stockish engine.

*IF* I had money laying around to burn I'd buy a 400hp system to play with. Could use something added on for timing control EDIS & Microsquirt?

But topic drift...lol...

OP should buy what he wants. The FiTech is not a BAD system, it is pretty cool actually.
I think the marketing is misleading, and there are some limitations, but overall a very attractive system.
Both in terms of what it is, and the price point.
For a stockish GW the 400hp system would be quite nice IMHO. I think the 600hp system is pretty overkill.

[Bill USN-1]

Appreciate you chiming in as I did consider your system but I did a search on this and another FSJ forums and foogle for Hamilton. Don't take this wrong please take it as constructive criticism for improvement by a possible consumer who seriously considered buying your product.

Nothing came up when I searched for titles with keyword Hamilton except your post for some throttle body adapters for a lot of other cars. Couldn't find anything or anyone who installed it on their jeeps here or there. I can't go by your own forums for non-bias because it can be manipulated by vested interest and gustapoed out anything negative.

The only thing that pops up on a Google search are people who have problems with Hamilton products and what they had to do to fix it.

Then the kicker for me is throwing out $1400 for an as-is,no warranty, no garantee product, no returns, no exceptions as stated by disclaimer just before you click buy it now.

Don't take it wrong I'm not saying it doesn't work, and that you don't make something well and stand by your product, and that you wouldn't give good customer service and support.

But some kind of warranty should be in order for me to buy something for that kind of coin.

Thanks for the feedback.
Not sure where you found neg feedback on my systems but I will continue to look for it.
I have never refused nor failed to addressed any concern or issue with my systems that I am aware of. So if there is a complaint, they must not have called me as my number is listed on every pg of the manual.
I have never refused to refund or simply send a replacement part to any one no matter how long they have owned the system.
I am part of the community and my name and number is on the system so it needs to be right. I'm not a faceless corporation.
I do not pay for google advertisement so you won't find me at the top of any list.
I am a one man shop and I answer my phone when it rings and I spend several hours every day address questions from people that don't even run my system.
If I felt the modern systems were better than what I sell, I would switch.
I have the new 400hp fuel only system setting here, it's going back.
I thought about selling the new systems as a complete ready to bolt on system that is pretuned with timing control.
But as you are finding out, it would cost much more and still end up with an aftermarket system that you can't get replacement parts for locally if it breaks.
Most look at the initial cost and think the new systems are a great deal, But I haven't really seen any post that list final cost of everything they had they had to invest in the system to complete it.

Another thing to keep in mind, I have been providing free DIY information on several Jeep and IH sites and my name is the same on all. So when you search you have to know when it's DIY or an actual HFI kit.
There have been many on here that have used my DIY info to successfully add injection to their jeeps.
I provide assistance to all that ask no matter what system they use.
It's a community issue not a financial one.

[ShagWagon]

Thanks for the feedback.
Not sure where you found neg feedback on my systems but I will continue to look for it.
I have never refused nor failed to addressed any concern or issue with my systems that I am aware of. So if there is a complaint, they must not have called me as my number is listed on every pg of the manual.
I have never refused to refund or simply send a replacement part to any one no matter how long they have owned the system.
I am part of the community and my name and number is on the system so it needs to be right. I'm not a faceless corporation.
I do not pay for google advertisement so you won't find me at the top of any list.
I am a one man shop and I answer my phone when it rings and I spend several hours every day address questions from people that don't even run my system.
If I felt the modern systems were better than what I sell, I would switch.
I have the new 400hp fuel only system setting here, it's going back.
I thought about selling the new systems as a complete ready to bolt on system that is pretuned with timing control.
But as you are finding out, it would cost much more and still end up with an aftermarket system that you can't get replacement parts for locally if it breaks.
Most look at the initial cost and think the new systems are a great deal, But I haven't really seen any post that list final cost of everything they had they had to invest in the system to complete it.

Another thing to keep in mind, I have been providing free DIY information on several Jeep and IH sites and my name is the same on all. So when you search you have to know when it's DIY or an actual HFI kit.
There have been many on here that have used my DIY info to successfully add injection to their jeeps.
I provide assistance to all that ask no matter what system they use.
It's a community issue not a financial one.

I hear ya. Keep up,the good work! You seem to be in it for all the right reasons.

I'm just trying to be helpful back even if it doesn't seem like it.

When I do a title search for Hamilton on FSJ forums nothing comes up where anyone has installed it. If anyone has a write up or something would be good for the cause.

I can't criticize your setup, and I'm not because I don't know enough to. But it was hard for me to buy for the leery because of before mentioned issues.

Be good!

[babywag]

I'd venture a guess that the reason you find no threads is likely because few people have had problems with Bill's system.
I know there are people running them, I cannot recall ever seeing a complaint or problem posted about his stuff...

One guy posting youtube videos complaining isn't really a fair assessment.
But the fact that you find nothing, and only those videos does say something.
The first thing anyone does when they have a problem is let the intenet know.

Google FiTech problems, pretty new products/system...lots of hits.
Or Howell TBI problems, lots of hits. Many on this forum alone.

I have personally helped a LOT of guys with Howell system problems, and I would never recommend one to anyone.
It is too bad, because they're the only CA Smog legal system with an EO for a Jeep w/ amc 360.

[Bill USN-1]

You beat me to the punch.....
Your in the EFI forum so why would someone that is now driving and enjoying their FSJ be hanging out here or even looking here?

I can't provide personal information so I can't post a list of names.

But at this point it really isn't pertinent. You have made your decision so this is only for the next guy looking for facts when making his decision.

[ShagWagon]

I ordered the
Fitech 30002
Fuel command center
Edelbrock performer manifold
RTV grey
Manifold bolts
Manifold gasket
Valley gasket
Thermostat gasket
Distributor gasket
Throttle return spring kit

Ended up $1778 out the door.

Ordered from jegs. Called by phone to make sure all was in stock. Paid then next morning got an e-mail saying the FCC was back ordered and would ship out 9/30. That's like 6 weeks out! So I called and gave a few choice words about that, talked to the supervisor about why the salesman lied to me that it was all in stock before they took my money,and that was the whole point of me calling in was to make sure all was ready to go, then it was delayed 6 weeks after I paid for it.... He actually wanted to argue with me saying that HE didn't say that correcting me when I said you told me would ship out immediately.

I cancelled. Went with Summit racing. Same thing, same price, actually so same it seems they're the same company...?Except,summit told me beforehand FCC was delayed till 9/08 and they'd give me a discount if it was late. They also recommended RTV and the distributor gasket and manifold bolts that the jegs didn't. Don't know if I really need all that or if it's just cushioning their commission..

Hoping for the best..

[ShagWagon]

There's some good reading on the Fitech website that has specifics on all the models they have.

The model I got for $995 has idle control, and a port on the handheld to hook a computer to. Not sure what for or how extensive it goes but probably more than I care to use (at the moment lol).

The $1195 model says has FULL tuning capabilities. Seems more for a modified hot rod type engine with supercharger, NO2, etc..... However I saw an ad on eBay from a guy how was selling it because he couldn't get it to run right on his mustank.

I also noticed they have fan hookups? This for an electric radiator fan? Or another kinds of fan. Mines a clutch fan or something. I got 2 different fans on my jeeps. Not sure what's better or what they even are but they're different from each other. Neither seems to be electric.

Also good point on the processor being mounted on the hot manifold. Something I definitely overlooked. Hope this is t a problem as heat and CPUs don't mix well. That's probably the first thing I'll do is take it apart and see if the have anything to address the heat. See if I can do something there.

[babywag]

Hopefully it will be what you expect, and works well for you.

Take pics, and share your results for others.
It will be interesting to see how well the system functions outside of the recommendations FiTech lists.

[ShagWagon]

I'm so mad.

Placed the order on August 19th.

Was told fuel pump would be sent out on the 8th. 10th rolled around it wasn't sent out.

Called summit they said no idea when it will be sent out but it's estimated on 9/29 to be sent out. Just what the other company said in the first place. I told them the whole reason I placed my order was because they said it would be shipped out on the 8th and their competition was saying the 30th. I asked the salesman why he said " well we're better than they are I guess"...

Well 29th rolls around I get an email that says it will be estimated to ship out on 11/30. That's 2 months from now. Nearly 3 months later than I was told when I placed the order.

So I sit here out $1700+that I already paid with boxes full of stuff I can't even use, and no idea when it will come. They keep telling me that it's an estimated ship date and that I shouldn't expect it on that day. And that I can send all the parts back for a refund on my dime. That's like $100+ shipping to send it back.

They're like %600+ off the estimated ship date, and that's no promise. Sooooo unacceptable..... Estimate should come in around %10. %25 at the most....

I don't know what to do.... If I'd known all this I would have waited for the Holley that comes out tomorrow probably...

[babywag]

So just cancel the fuel command center order, and do it yourself with parts you can readily buy from many many different online vendors.

You do not NEED the fuel command center, like I mentioned before it is way overkill, especially for a stockish 80's AMC 360.

[ShagWagon]

I just wish they'd been up front about it. 3 weeks estimate turned into 15 weeks and "we don't even have a clue when it will ship" when I called to ask.

I could have gone a different route and be done with it 3 weeks ago....

So now my dilemma is

wait 8 more weeks (estimated) before I even begin?

Return it and go a different route altogether?

Buy an inline noisy fuel pump to get me by for an estimated 8+ weeks,
Then install fuel can center and sell used the fuel pump with 2-3 months use on it for like maybe 75% of new? If I can get that. What would be the best route for a decent pump to get me by costwise without getting total Chinga junk? Gotta be able to resell it. I already paid for the fuel can center and they did give me $140 credit back 3 weeks ago because I raised hell when they delayed the first time and they lied about when I'd receive it.

Go with the Intanker fuel pump like the one you made up I read about months ago. I was going to do that because of the noise complaints of the inline ones. I like the idea it's just that I spent so much time tweaking my new sending unit to get it just right that I didn't want to go back in there for a long long time.