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Old 02-04-2009, 04:28 AM
shiner2001's Avatar
shiner2001 shiner2001 is offline
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Location: Buffalo Gap, TX
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V8 cam, intake and carb swap +Random pics of 8600/1406/3731 going in...almost there!

Like the title says, just a few random pictures of the progress so far. I bought all this stuff forever ago, but took forever to get around to actually spending the amount of time that the project required. I've put in a couple long days in the past few days, and I ordered my Comp Cams break in additive today. Hopefully by the time it gets here I will be ready to add fluids and see where she heads when I try to crank.

A brief rundown of what's going in (this isn't anything that many many people haven't done before, but here's my trip down that road).

-Edelbrock 3731 Intake Manifold
-Edelbrock 1406 Carb
-Summit 8600 Cam
-Summit G6618 Timing Set
-Summit HT2011 Lifters
-Edelbrock 4431 Valve Covers
-Flowkooler 1781 Water Pump
-Robertshaw 330-195 Thermostat
-BJ's 5-0009 AMC V8 Bolt Kit - Hex Unpolished
-BJ's 14-6019 V8 76-91 Fuel Pump
-New rubber fuel lines
-New rubber heater hoses
-Comp Cams CCA-150 Cam Shaft Break In Lube

My AC system was already discharged, so in the pictures you will notice that the radiator and condenser are both removed from the vehicle and the transmission cooler is simply unbolted and moved out of the way with the lines still connected. I would not have wanted to tackle this project with the AC condenser in place; being able to work on the front of the engine from outside the engine bay GREATLY simplified this project. Obviously, the grille is also removed. It was also very convenient to have the hood completely removed. Mine is being replaced anyway, but if I were to do it again, I would take it off for this project. This is the first time I have tackled anything deeper than replacing a head gasket and for the most part basic hand tools will get the job done. If you have a pretty good understanding of what you are tackling and have either a factory service manual or a Hayne's (I actually preferred the Hayne's on this project as everything is fairly straightforward and doesn't really require the detail often delivered by the FSM), you should be ok to attack this in your own driveway. In addition, this forum serves as an invaluable resource for any road bumps that creep up. Many auto parts stores loan pullers for the harmonic balancer, but they are also available at Sears for about $20 (that's the route that I took). You will also need a torque wrench for reassembly. Another little piece that I picked up that I could not have done without was a u-joint adapter for a 3/8" ratchet. There are alot of fasteners in places that are just about impossible to get to without one. Do yourself a favor and add one of those and various other extensions to your toolbox. Also, one "tool" that come in more handy than you would probably think is a digital camera. Even if you don't plan on sharing your pictures with anyone, taking pictures along the way and before you ever even start (from all different angles) will help tremendously with reassembly. Bag and tag everything as well. I also recommend having another entire Jeep sitting there so you can reference that when you are trying to figure out which way this bracket or that bracket or whatever bolts back in, haha.

A few pictures...

"Baseline"





Intake manifold and carb removed. I took them off as one unit. Fair warning, if you are doing this by yourself, be ready to muscle it out. It's a pretty heavy piece, especially at arms length.



Here is a good picture of the "work area" created by taking the little extra time to get rid of everything mounted to the core support. As I said, my AC was already discharged, so that wasn't a factor for me. This is with the front accessories and water pump removed, but the main pulley still in place.



This picture is kind of blurry (apparently I'm focused on the floor, oops), but it shows the puller attached to the balancer. A few turns of the ratchet and it will pop right off. This is after the pulley has been removed, as well as the front accessories such as the alternator and AC.



This is a wide shot of what you will see after you pull off the front cover.



And what it should look like if you set TDC correctly. The dots should be lined up as they are in this picture. No matter how sure you are that you have it set correctly, it sure feels good when you pull the cover and the dots are in the right place.



BEFORE you try to pull the cam, be sure that you have the valve covers off and the lifters pulled out. If you are using a new cam, you must replace the lifters. In that case (as in this situation), I wasn't worried about saving the old lifters, so I was able to use a small magnet to pick them up slightly and then grab the edge of the lifter with a pair of needle nose to get them all the way out. In this picture, the rockers, rods and lifters are all removed.



In my case, my rods were good (roll them on a piece of flat glass to see if they are warped or bent). Your rods should go back exactly where you pulled them from, so keep them in order as you take them out.



Same goes for the rockers. I placed each one in a plastic bag and labeled the bag. When you are single, the top of the washing machine is a great place to get something out of the way where it won't get mixed up.



After removing the timing set, you are ready to slide the cam out. Mine came out easily by hand.



The old and the new.



I always hate it when in the manual is says, "installation is the reverse of removal," but in this case, it really does just boil down to replacing everything that you have just taken apart. While you are using aftermarket parts, everything goes right back where the part that is is replacing came from. If you have looked around too much or even read Edelbrock's suggestions, you will see that they recommend using a bead of RTV to seal the front and rear of the intake manifold to the block (as opposed to the rubber seals that come with your valley pan and were originally installed on your engine). This is what that looks like, although I built up the bead one more level from this picture to ensure contact with the intake manifold.



Here I have installed the new water pump, valve covers and intake.



Here I have the 1406 sitting on top and have begun running fuel lines and installing various pieces on the manifold.



That's kind of where I stand right now. Hopefully fuel and spark this weekend! Another thing that should be mentioned is to be sure to use plenty of assembly lube on any parts that have metal to metal contact, including the entirety of the cam, the rockers, lifters and rods. Also use anti-seize on all your bolts as you reassemble. You'll thank yourself next time you tear into the engine.

One more picture....I like to think of this one as the "scene of the crime"



I'm going to continue to post to this thread as I finish up. I'm trying to be thorough so that if someone searches in the future, they may be able to get alot of their info in one place. Sorry for the mundane details, but hopefully this thread will help someone along the way.
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Derek
----------------
1973 Wagoneer 360
1978 Cherokee 360
1981 J10 360

----------------
1964 El Camino 357
1972 C10 454 LS6
1979 Corvette L82
1979 Scout II 345
1988 YJ 4.2L
1991 YJ 4.3L
1990 Suburban V2500 350
1998 Mark VIII 4.6L
2001 Yukon 5.3L

----------------
"If it's not broken, fix it 'till it is."

Last edited by shiner2001 : 02-04-2009 at 05:02 AM.
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  #2  
Old 02-04-2009, 08:21 AM
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billyrb billyrb is offline
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cool pics!
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  #3  
Old 02-04-2009, 08:36 AM
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littlebuck23 littlebuck23 is offline
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Looks like fun!
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1970 Kaiser Wagoneer -SOLD (currently getting built by new owner)
Build thread-http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=103447
1979 Cherokee Chief WT 360. SOLD
1977 Cherokee Chief WT Sport 401. SOLD
1975 International Scout II (My DD)
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  #4  
Old 02-04-2009, 03:44 PM
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shiner2001 shiner2001 is offline
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Thanks guys. Fun so far...the test will be when I try to fire it up!
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Derek
----------------
1973 Wagoneer 360
1978 Cherokee 360
1981 J10 360

----------------
1964 El Camino 357
1972 C10 454 LS6
1979 Corvette L82
1979 Scout II 345
1988 YJ 4.2L
1991 YJ 4.3L
1990 Suburban V2500 350
1998 Mark VIII 4.6L
2001 Yukon 5.3L

----------------
"If it's not broken, fix it 'till it is."
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  #5  
Old 02-04-2009, 04:17 PM
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BURT BURT is offline
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locktight

I would like to sugest to you that locktight is what you should use on all the threads , service removable blue on the top stuff & pan /covers , permanent red on rod & main bolts. exhaust manifold bolts gets antisleze. locktight also prevents rust & corission
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  #6  
Old 02-04-2009, 08:12 PM
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Fiodh. Argus Fiodh. Argus is offline
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great thread, good shots.

Thanks for posting!
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  #7  
Old 02-05-2009, 03:29 AM
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shiner2001 shiner2001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiodh. Argus
great thread, good shots.

Thanks for posting!

Thanks man, much appreciated. Can't wait to finish it up and see how she runs.

I also have to disagree with loctite in the engine. I understand the different scenarios for loctite and never seize, and I have to think, from a strictly engineering/metallurgy standpoint, never seize would be the best choice. That is also what BJ's recommends with their bolt kit. Gotta think they did some research before advising to always use never seize. Anyone else have any thoughts/opinions? I'd like for this to turn into a kind of "end all" thread for this group of modifications.
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Derek
----------------
1973 Wagoneer 360
1978 Cherokee 360
1981 J10 360

----------------
1964 El Camino 357
1972 C10 454 LS6
1979 Corvette L82
1979 Scout II 345
1988 YJ 4.2L
1991 YJ 4.3L
1990 Suburban V2500 350
1998 Mark VIII 4.6L
2001 Yukon 5.3L

----------------
"If it's not broken, fix it 'till it is."

Last edited by shiner2001 : 02-05-2009 at 03:31 AM.
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  #8  
Old 02-05-2009, 03:41 AM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BURT
I would like to sugest to you that locktight is what you should use on all the threads , service removable blue on the top stuff & pan /covers , permanent red on rod & main bolts. exhaust manifold bolts gets antisleze. locktight also prevents rust & corission


you DO NOT use loc-tite on rod/mains. you will NOT get accurate torque readings doing so. they are oiled,or if using arp or similar,you use their thread lube.

the bolts through the timing cover should be anti-seized,all the way to the bolt head. they seize up in the aluminum cover more often than in the block. loc-tite won't prevent this.
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Ristows right.................again,




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.


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Last edited by Ristow : 02-05-2009 at 03:52 AM.
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  #9  
Old 02-05-2009, 10:23 AM
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shiner2001 shiner2001 is offline
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I've read before and it just stands to reason, but doesn't the return line on the fuel filter need to be oriented below the feed line to the carb (as it is in the pictures)? Just double checking on that one...
__________________
Derek
----------------
1973 Wagoneer 360
1978 Cherokee 360
1981 J10 360

----------------
1964 El Camino 357
1972 C10 454 LS6
1979 Corvette L82
1979 Scout II 345
1988 YJ 4.2L
1991 YJ 4.3L
1990 Suburban V2500 350
1998 Mark VIII 4.6L
2001 Yukon 5.3L

----------------
"If it's not broken, fix it 'till it is."
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  #10  
Old 02-05-2009, 10:39 AM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiner2001
I've read before and it just stands to reason, but doesn't the return line on the fuel filter need to be oriented below the feed line to the carb (as it is in the pictures)? Just double checking on that one...


straight up. 12 noon.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hankrod
Ristows right.................again,




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.


→ Where the kids hang out...

fsjbuilder.org come for the mindless chat,stay for the hand drawn emoticons.

It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...
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  #11  
Old 02-05-2009, 11:53 AM
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shiner2001 shiner2001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ristow
straight up. 12 noon.

The return is supposed to be on top you mean? (opposite of the way I have it in the picture?)
__________________
Derek
----------------
1973 Wagoneer 360
1978 Cherokee 360
1981 J10 360

----------------
1964 El Camino 357
1972 C10 454 LS6
1979 Corvette L82
1979 Scout II 345
1988 YJ 4.2L
1991 YJ 4.3L
1990 Suburban V2500 350
1998 Mark VIII 4.6L
2001 Yukon 5.3L

----------------
"If it's not broken, fix it 'till it is."
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  #12  
Old 02-05-2009, 11:55 AM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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yup
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hankrod
Ristows right.................again,




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.


→ Where the kids hang out...

fsjbuilder.org come for the mindless chat,stay for the hand drawn emoticons.

It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...
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  #13  
Old 02-05-2009, 11:59 AM
shiner2001's Avatar
shiner2001 shiner2001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ristow
yup

Got it, thanks!
__________________
Derek
----------------
1973 Wagoneer 360
1978 Cherokee 360
1981 J10 360

----------------
1964 El Camino 357
1972 C10 454 LS6
1979 Corvette L82
1979 Scout II 345
1988 YJ 4.2L
1991 YJ 4.3L
1990 Suburban V2500 350
1998 Mark VIII 4.6L
2001 Yukon 5.3L

----------------
"If it's not broken, fix it 'till it is."
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  #14  
Old 02-05-2009, 03:08 PM
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travisrda travisrda is offline
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if you have dirty parts that you want to get clean just throw them in the dishwasher and the come out great just don't let your wife catch you doing it. just a small tip from when I put my cam in..
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  #15  
Old 02-05-2009, 05:23 PM
shiner2001's Avatar
shiner2001 shiner2001 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travisrda
if you have dirty parts that you want to get clean just throw them in the dishwasher and the come out great just don't let your wife catch you doing it. just a small tip from when I put my cam in..

I wonder if I can fit the whole block in there...
__________________
Derek
----------------
1973 Wagoneer 360
1978 Cherokee 360
1981 J10 360

----------------
1964 El Camino 357
1972 C10 454 LS6
1979 Corvette L82
1979 Scout II 345
1988 YJ 4.2L
1991 YJ 4.3L
1990 Suburban V2500 350
1998 Mark VIII 4.6L
2001 Yukon 5.3L

----------------
"If it's not broken, fix it 'till it is."
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  #16  
Old 02-05-2009, 07:55 PM
shaolinsifu shaolinsifu is offline
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great thread,awesome pics, now I have a great idea of what I am about to undertake myself!! I have the 1406 4bbl,stock 4v intake from'65 Marlin, elelbrock cam, collection of gaskets and hoses, looking for a dbl roller timing set...(not currently available from edelbrock..??) checking with Jegs...we'll see... gettin excited!! now more so!! Thanks!!
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  #17  
Old 02-06-2009, 12:05 AM
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shiner2001 shiner2001 is offline
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Here is the bracket that I made to relocate the throttle cable so that it will line up with the Edelbrock's linkages. I got the dimensions from Edlebrock. They sell part #EDL-8034, but I didn't want to spend $16 for a piece of aluminum that you can make yourself very easily. I used a cut off wheel to notch the factory bracket to fit around the bolt that secured the new piece to the manifold. On the Edelbrock one, they have a tapered head bolt that is countersunk into the adaptor, but it was just as easy to do this.

Temporarily installed before it was in the Jeep:


Bolted in after the manifold was installed:


Nevermind the heater hose in that picture, it's just a piece laying there, not connected to anything.

After hooking up the throttle cable to the carb, it seems like it may not return to 0 throttle under it's own power, so I'm going to have to look into that some more tomorrow. Anyone have any ideas on that?
__________________
Derek
----------------
1973 Wagoneer 360
1978 Cherokee 360
1981 J10 360

----------------
1964 El Camino 357
1972 C10 454 LS6
1979 Corvette L82
1979 Scout II 345
1988 YJ 4.2L
1991 YJ 4.3L
1990 Suburban V2500 350
1998 Mark VIII 4.6L
2001 Yukon 5.3L

----------------
"If it's not broken, fix it 'till it is."
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:55 AM
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james1414d james1414d is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BURT
I would like to sugest to you that locktight is what you should use on all the threads , service removable blue on the top stuff & pan /covers , permanent red on rod & main bolts. exhaust manifold bolts gets antisleze. locktight also prevents rust & corission

WTF? Ignore this post please.
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Old 02-08-2009, 03:31 AM
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shiner2001 shiner2001 is offline
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New Pictures and Questions about Vacuum...

I thought today would be the day that I got fire to the ol' girl, but alas, not so much. Stupidly I cracked the aluminum (freshly painted, no less) thermostat housing installing the vacuum fitting to the back of it. So, as far as that goes, waiting on a replacement, hopefully I can track one down on Sunday. The one on the Cherokee has a horizontal pipe fitting out of the back side of it, but I need on with a diagonal facing one so that there will be room for the fitting. But I digress.

So, in my quest for the definitive 8600/1406/3731 thread, here are a couple of questions that are probably super simple, but seem to be escaping me, possibly because it's 4 am and I had a couple beers after calling it quits on the project tonight.

First of all, in the picture below, what goes to A, B and C? A and B are threaded fittings on the manifold, C is the threaded fitting on the 1406 (plugged in the picture, but I'm thinking that something else goes there).



Next...in this picture, the front of the 1406, are the two small nipples (D and E) next to the fuel/air mixture screws. One is listed as "for emissions controlled vehicles" and the other for "non emissions controlled vehicles." This is an 84 and had all the smog stuff (air tubes, pump, etc.), but I have removed all of that. The question is, what vacuum line goes to which one of these nipples, if indeed one does go to either one. (They are both capped in this picture).



OK, now hopefully back on track with something I have done right that a picture of will help someone else and not just me while pointing out my own ignorance. This is a picture of the throttle cable assempbly on the 1406, with the included transmission kick down adapter installed and the throttle cable and transmission kickdown lever attached. I had planned on using the Lokar kickdown, but it seems that I was able to adjust the factory one out far enough for it to work. Not 100% sure of that yet, but it seems to fit. I suppose I do actually have a question on this one...is the kickdown suppose to move at any amount of throttle or is there supposed to be some throttle movement before it is engaged. The way it is made seems to be so that it has some room (approximately 2-3 inches) of travel, so I guess I'm not sure if this is hooked up appropriately or not. This picture is at "rest" or zero throttle, so you can see that any throttle applied will "pull" on the transmission kickdown, is that correct? By the way, the blue cable ties in the picture are on there so I can tighten them up and hold the throttle at about 2000 rpm when I do the break in, they are not a permanent feature, ha.




By the way, I labeled all the "questions" with a letter so that anyone that can lend an answer can easily refer to the picture in their answer.

Thanks!
__________________
Derek
----------------
1973 Wagoneer 360
1978 Cherokee 360
1981 J10 360

----------------
1964 El Camino 357
1972 C10 454 LS6
1979 Corvette L82
1979 Scout II 345
1988 YJ 4.2L
1991 YJ 4.3L
1990 Suburban V2500 350
1998 Mark VIII 4.6L
2001 Yukon 5.3L

----------------
"If it's not broken, fix it 'till it is."
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  #20  
Old 02-08-2009, 05:37 AM
Ristow Ristow is offline
 
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Location: The Great Googley Moogley Midwest.
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A will be a small vacuum fitting going to the vacuum ball. B goes to the EGR,or you can use C off the carb.

D is ported vacuum, E is manifold. i highly suggest you take the time to tune the distributor for manifold vacuum,it'll run much crisper.


the kickdown generally has about 1/4 throttle worth of slack. adjust it to be pulled fully forward at full throttle and you're done.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hankrod
Ristows right.................again,




Quote:
Originally Posted by Fasts79Chief
... like the little 'you know what's' that you are.


→ Where the kids hang out...

fsjbuilder.org come for the mindless chat,stay for the hand drawn emoticons.

It's like you're unraveling a big cable-knit sweater that someone keeps knitting...and knitting...and knitting...and knitting...
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