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  #1  
Old 02-16-2007, 08:01 AM
Scuba66J3000 Scuba66J3000 is offline
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J3000 shackle reversal

I don't know if anyone out there has done this, but feel free to throw out any opinions or ideas. I've got a 66' J3000 that I've been working on and I'm getting ready to redo the front suspension. I'm planning to move the springs under the frame (like 74 and newer), use BJ's 4" lift springs and change the axle to a SOA setup ( I've already got the axle). I read an article in JP magazine where they used a YJ shackle reversal kit to move the springs under the frame and it seemed like a good way to do it. I'm just wondering if I should install the springs with the shackle in the front ( like the factory) or do the shackle reversal. The truck has the vigilante 327 and a PTO winch on the front so it's pretty front heavy. I'm a little worried about the truck nose diving with the lift and shackle reversal. I'm also looking for any info on changing the truck to power steering. Any help would be great.

Scuba
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  #2  
Old 02-16-2007, 08:35 AM
adamsclarke adamsclarke is offline
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Here is the kit I will be using when I do my SOA...looks pretty complete
http://www.tandjperformance.com/prod...lereversal.htm
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  #3  
Old 02-16-2007, 09:27 AM
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Gambler68 Gambler68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamsclarke
Here is the kit I will be using when I do my SOA...looks pretty complete
http://www.tandjperformance.com/prod...lereversal.htm

Nice find!!!! How much does it cost? For a Glad.
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Old 02-16-2007, 10:11 AM
Scuba66J3000 Scuba66J3000 is offline
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That looks like a nice kit. I just talked to them and they gave me a price of 289$
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  #5  
Old 02-16-2007, 10:21 AM
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Gambler68 Gambler68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba66J3000
That looks like a nice kit. I just talked to them and they gave me a price of 289$

so have you researched SOA steering issues with the Ross box? I guess you could swap in a later saginaw maybe..
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1979 Chero S "Sundog" 1979 Chero S "Hammer"
1968 327 J3000 1978 J10SWB
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  #6  
Old 02-16-2007, 10:55 AM
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I just called them too. I like the price but I'm not too thrilled that they're made of 3/16 steel. I don't know if I'd trust that with a full size jeep with 38's.


JR
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  #7  
Old 02-16-2007, 11:52 AM
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Gambler68 Gambler68 is offline
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we have plenty of fab guys here. Just need to convince one to make this outta thicker stock
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1979 Chero S "Sundog" 1979 Chero S "Hammer"
1968 327 J3000 1978 J10SWB
The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.
Hunter S. Thompson .

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Old 02-16-2007, 12:06 PM
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That is a decent looking kit.
Aren't all of the stock springs hangers and shackles made from 3/16" steel?
Except for post mount rigs of course.
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  #9  
Old 02-16-2007, 12:38 PM
adamsclarke adamsclarke is offline
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Yeah...I plan on making a tie in between the 2 mounts. I am not too concerned about the 3/16 for the hanger...i am more concerned about making a beefy shackle mount at the rear of the spring.
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  #10  
Old 02-16-2007, 12:44 PM
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Gambler68 Gambler68 is offline
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under $300 shipped is a decent price, but I'd like to pay cheaper just for metal fabbed pieces, if I go through all the trouble of relocating them, I don't want to use 40 year old springs. A kit that used at least normal Jtruck/wag springs that was half that price would sell alot I'd bet. Source your own bushings and get some Grade 8s at the hardware store, costs 24 bux for bolts/nuts alone.
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1979 Chero S "Sundog" 1979 Chero S "Hammer"
1968 327 J3000 1978 J10SWB
The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.
Hunter S. Thompson .

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  #11  
Old 02-16-2007, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaiserMan
That is a decent looking kit.
Aren't all of the stock springs hangers and shackles made from 3/16" steel?
Except for post mount rigs of course.


I know they're close to that but I would guess the factory uses a denser, stronger type of steel. If I had a stock dd I probably wouldn't worry as much but anything off-road and I'd be worried when the suspension starts twisting. Not thick enough for me. 1/4" will have me sleeping soundly at night.


JR
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[quote] "How does someone from Iran have a BJ's Offroad sticker but I can't seem to get one sent to New Jersey???!!!"


1980 Honcho Sportside w/37's, 351c, 14" lift, D44high pinion w/Aussie, crossover steering, 14b w/detroit, np435, 205, 5.13's, 4whl discs, hb brakes, OBAir, rusted out cab,
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  #12  
Old 02-16-2007, 01:38 PM
budojeepr budojeepr is offline
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To answer your question more directly, see this page about shackle reversal pros and cons:
http://www.jeeptech.com/susp/elkcahs/

I elected to go with the shackle in the front because I didn't like the idea of getting a shorter wheelbase (extending the nose) as I come off of big downhills (your axle moves back upon spring compression). Hit the brakes and it looks like you're driving a big stink-bug. Also with a shackle reversal you have to consider the effect on your front driveshaft under full stuff and full droop. On mine, the front driveshaft only had 3/8" travel over the whole range.

However, shackle reversals have a lot of pluses, too. One has to wonder why Jeep didn't just go with rear-mounted shackles in the first place...

...power steering...maybe just go to full hydraulic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba66J3000
I don't know if anyone out there has done this, but feel free to throw out any opinions or ideas. I've got a 66' J3000 that I've been working on and I'm getting ready to redo the front suspension. I'm planning to move the springs under the frame (like 74 and newer), use BJ's 4" lift springs and change the axle to a SOA setup ( I've already got the axle). I read an article in JP magazine where they used a YJ shackle reversal kit to move the springs under the frame and it seemed like a good way to do it. I'm just wondering if I should install the springs with the shackle in the front ( like the factory) or do the shackle reversal. The truck has the vigilante 327 and a PTO winch on the front so it's pretty front heavy. I'm a little worried about the truck nose diving with the lift and shackle reversal. I'm also looking for any info on changing the truck to power steering. Any help would be great.

Scuba
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Last edited by budojeepr : 02-16-2007 at 01:50 PM.
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  #13  
Old 02-16-2007, 06:43 PM
Scuba66J3000 Scuba66J3000 is offline
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I'm thinking I'll probably built my own brackets, probably 1/4" and I'll put a cross brace between the front brackets ( I'd rather go heavier then lighter). The fact that the axle moves back on compression and the nose dive thing is what has me concerned. The article in JP shows them welding tube through the frame for the rear shackle hanger. I'm not sure if I'm doing that or welding up a bracket.
http://www.jpmagazine.com/projectbui..._jeep_j_truck/
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  #14  
Old 02-16-2007, 08:19 PM
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Tad Tad is offline
 
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I'm not sold yet.

I do love the bent drag link though
Be interesting to see how that works for a front post mount Jtruck.
I have seen a kit similar (looked like more lift), but I have never seen that rig move or run, still, it would be interesting.
All that bracketry is meant to mount off the side of the frame it appears, which would not be close to the perch spacing on a stock front post mount Jtruck (maybe you could reverse that stuff, not sure).
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  #15  
Old 02-16-2007, 08:46 PM
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Gambler68 Gambler68 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadsal
I'm not sold yet.

I do love the bent drag link though
Be interesting to see how that works for a front post mount Jtruck.
I have seen a kit similar (looked like more lift), but I have never seen that rig move or run, still, it would be interesting.
All that bracketry is meant to mount off the side of the frame it appears, which would not be close to the perch spacing on a stock front post mount Jtruck (maybe you could reverse that stuff, not sure).

Right, yikes. Are there DPA's for those old boxes?

Now..could 1/4" brackets be made that would let one put newer (ie, not closed knuckle) WT 44's under the older rigs? That way your perches would line up, you get modern diffs. I guess then you pop into the expense of doing an SOA, but if you used GM HD44s that were already SOA...

considering the literal dearth of 70's diffs out there, and flat stock springs, this would open up the older rigs to take make use of that stuff.

I just don't know what you'd have to do for safe steering, not something I've looked into alot.
__________________
1979 Chero S "Sundog" 1979 Chero S "Hammer"
1968 327 J3000 1978 J10SWB
The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over.
Hunter S. Thompson .

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  #16  
Old 02-16-2007, 09:56 PM
Scuba66J3000 Scuba66J3000 is offline
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Scuba

My understanding is that the brackets get welded under the frame and the one side of the bracket that's longer just goes up along the frame to add strength. I just got a chevy D44 SOA with 32" spaced spring perches. With the frame on 32" centers I was going to bolt on the lift springs to the axle and design the brackets from there. It has flat top knuckles so I'm using the stock tie rod for now and I'll install a spring steering system with a custom drag link. I hope this makes sense.
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  #17  
Old 02-17-2007, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambler68
Right, yikes. Are there DPA's for those old boxes?

Now..could 1/4" brackets be made that would let one put newer (ie, not closed knuckle) WT 44's under the older rigs? That way your perches would line up, you get modern diffs. I guess then you pop into the expense of doing an SOA, but if you used GM HD44s that were already SOA...

considering the literal dearth of 70's diffs out there, and flat stock springs, this would open up the older rigs to take make use of that stuff.

I just don't know what you'd have to do for safe steering, not something I've looked into alot.

IIRC the CJ DPA works and is a bit shorter, I never looked into it as I went with a newer axle to start with.

What you describe is really just like adding newer FSJ hangers (- the shackle reversal) like I did, I certianly do not have $300 into that, maybe more like $100 (hangers, used springs and shipping) but yes, there is always the added cost of steering on top of that.
I will not debate the shackle reversal concepts, that's been done here before, I honestly do not see the point.

As far as making new hangers out of 1/4"
Now that the RB2.0 kit is done (still need to finish the LB version) that's next (I'm actually almost done, just need to put some together).
Just need to finish of 10 or so items I promised some folks
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  #18  
Old 02-17-2007, 08:09 AM
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KaiserMan KaiserMan is offline
I got the Willys....
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tadsal
IIRC the CJ DPA works and is a bit shorter, I never looked into it as I went with a newer axle to start with.

I was told to get one for a 76+ CJ with power steering. Not sure what the difference is, but it works great. The newer DPA's will fit the box (it's the same unit as the later ones), only the TRE's are smaller on the 63-73 Jeeps so the that end of the DPA won't fit.
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1970 Gladiator J3000 3407Z Camper Truck 350/T18
1963 Gladiator J300 Townside 350/TH400

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Old 02-17-2007, 08:53 AM
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I picked up a CJ DPA once for something I was trying to do with the early steering and it was 1" shorter in throw then the FSJ pitman arm.
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