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  #41  
Old 02-15-2012, 01:19 PM
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Eugene 1 Eugene 1 is offline
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thats is great work i hope mine turns out half as good
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  #42  
Old 02-15-2012, 03:06 PM
Hook574 Hook574 is offline
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Are the new valance mounts going to get into the inner fenders?
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  #43  
Old 02-15-2012, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hook574
Are the new valance mounts going to get into the inner fenders?

They're not going to get into the inner fenders, because they're inboard of the intercooler plumbing. Those definitely get into the inner fender areas. I'm going to tackle those mods when it comes up. While building everything I did do some test fits and checks and don't expect it to be a problem. I'm also pretty sure they're not going to interfer with wheel clearance during tight turns. Time will tell.

Resbum
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"What year is my truck?... Which part?" Build thread- http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/view...p=18290#p18290
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  #44  
Old 02-16-2012, 08:11 AM
Hook574 Hook574 is offline
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I figured that was a "cross that bridge when you get there" kinda thing. I know you said you cut the intercooler down 2 rows, did you do that yourself? Does a radiator shop do that, and could it also be cut down in width?

I know yours needed to be that width to clear your radiator I was just wondering if a narrower rad could be used.

Last edited by Hook574 : 02-16-2012 at 08:15 AM.
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  #45  
Old 02-16-2012, 09:35 AM
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I cut it down myself.

The very first thing I did was confirm that my welder, could weld cast aluminum back together. I also confirmed with him where I should make the cuts so he had the material he needed to weld it back together.

I used a cutoff disc on my grinder to cut the fins between the second and third rows. Then I smoothed down the cut fins with a block of wood so the top trim piece could be tacked back on. Then I used a straight edge and tape to layout nice even cuts around the tops of the header tanks, before cutting them off.

Cutting down width IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ANIMAL. You're cutting across all those rows. I personally wouldn't consider that. I can't see any way it could be cheaper than just buying one made to the desired width.

I'll edit some pics into this post later.

Resbum
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"What year is my truck?... Which part?" Build thread- http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/view...p=18290#p18290

Last edited by Resbum : 09-23-2012 at 09:24 AM.
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  #46  
Old 02-16-2012, 09:58 AM
Hook574 Hook574 is offline
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Thanks for the great info, keep it comin'
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  #47  
Old 02-16-2012, 10:12 AM
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Track Bar Build

All the parts and pieces, except the Prothane polyurethane bushings. The joints, bar ends, mounts, and tabs are from Ballistic Fabrication. The tubing is 1 ½” & 2”, ¼” wall, DOM. A Note- The materials cost as much as some of the really nice track bar kits offered by vendors. I had pretty specific ideas of what I wanted and none of the kits met all those needs. If you find a set you’re relatively happy with you might just buy them and make them fit your needs. Making them from scratch took A LOT MORE than I expected. Six days, instead of three.


Attach two pieces of rectangle stock cut at 24 degrees, and lined up with the axle tabs, to the cross member so that the shackle mounts will be oriented correctly with the axle. Then attach the shackle mounts and shackle plates. So that everything is lined up the same feed a piece of 5/8ths stock through the lower shackle holes. Tilt the shackles so that the lower ends are facing towards the front 5 degrees from vertical and take accurate measurements between the three track bar mounting points. There was actually about an 1/8th inch difference between the two sides so the difference was split.


With those measurements create a full size drawing to build off of. Make the two adjustable track bar ends out of 3” long 7/8ths” bolts with the heads cut off and tapped(threaded) into pieces of the 2” D.O.M., and welded up. After that notch the fixed end of one bar and cut the bars to length.


Completely weld the axle ends(one adjustable, one fixed) onto the bars and accurately lay them onto the drawing. Tack weld the two pieces of DOM together at the shackle end.


This plate between the axle ends of the bars is the same plate that was used to position the tabs on the axle. By using it there is no doubt the spacing is correct for the axle ends of the track bar.


I used the plate to weld the axle tabs on, that's why it's notched.
If you look closely you may see punch marks centered on the bolt heads. I put these bolts in when I took the measurements for the drawing.
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"What year is my truck?... Which part?" Build thread- http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/view...p=18290#p18290

Last edited by Resbum : 02-17-2012 at 09:33 AM.
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  #48  
Old 02-16-2012, 10:14 AM
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Tack weld a 1” square piece on for the center bit of the cutter to drill through.


This little Ryobi was never meant to tackle a job like this. Approach it as if you’re doing a “Dremel Tool” job. Slow and let the drill press do it at its own pace. Get a beverage, turn up the music, put on ear muffs, and spend 15 minutes occasionally adding cutting oil. Refer back to the last picture. Cut the tack weld at the end of the bars, thoroughly clean everything, and insert the joint. Use a clamp to pull the bars tightly onto the joint and weld. When the joint is about half way welded onto the bars trim off the ends and finish welding.


Fabricate the crossmember and weld it in.


I’m an amateur welder. Between that and using a welder barely able to do the job my welds were uglier than sin after running triple fillets. However, the professional I hired for other critical areas, assured me the welds are sound. I chose to grind and cleanup my welds, so that I didn’t have to look at them.

R.I.P.- One dead soldier. After seven months of abuse and a box full of used up cutoff discs, grinding wheels, and sanding wheels my $15 craigslist DeWalt grinder died while finishing the second bar. It took everything I threw at it and deserved to be put out of its misery.


Finally paint the bars and hang to cure in front of the pellet stove overnight.
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"What year is my truck?... Which part?" Build thread- http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/view...p=18290#p18290

Last edited by Resbum : 09-07-2012 at 08:31 AM.
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  #49  
Old 02-16-2012, 10:15 AM
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Time to put all the pieces together and install








This picture was taken with my phone resting on the bottom of the transmission crossmember. It's the middle low point between the two axles. The track bars look like they aren't going to have much of any obstacle clearance issues.


I'm pleased with how the track bars turned out, but it was a mess load more work than I expected.

Resbum
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"What year is my truck?... Which part?" Build thread- http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/view...p=18290#p18290

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  #50  
Old 02-16-2012, 11:00 AM
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Resbum Resbum is offline
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Warn 35 Spline Hub Dana 60 Tech Info and Install

I just posted a thread over in the Off-Road FSJ Tech area because it seemed more appropriate over there then in this build thread. I originally posted it at Pirate4X4 about a month ago.

It has to do with a problem I came across while installing the 35 spline 1.5" outer axles and WARN hubs in the front Dana 60. Apparently it's been a known problem that I wasn't aware of.

Here's a link to the thread:
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=152219

Resbum
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  #51  
Old 02-16-2012, 06:33 PM
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Today I wrapped up the major work on the frame.

I adjusted the track bars by compressing the springs with rachet straps wrapped around the axle and a 4X4 until the suspension was at its midpoint of travel. Then I turned the adjustable axle mounts(yellow arrow) in and out until the shackle joints(red arrow) lined up with the shackle holes. Then cranked everything down.


Then I did a lap around the truck checking and retightening all the spring and shackle bolts, and axle u-bolts. After towing the frame down for its initial alignment everything had taken a good seat and the u-bolts had relaxed. They actually took more retightening than I expected and I'll definitely be checking them several more times.

Next on the list is to mount the shocks, install the calipers and new brake lines, mount the steering box and fabricate the drag link.

Resbum
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"What year is my truck?... Which part?" Build thread- http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/view...p=18290#p18290

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  #52  
Old 02-16-2012, 07:09 PM
Hook574 Hook574 is offline
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What is the primary use of your truck going to be, towing, trail, little of both? I'm asking because I like the way you have done your suspension and I'm wondering how narrowing the spring mount width will effect stability while towing or cornering.
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  #53  
Old 02-16-2012, 10:57 PM
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COLOFIREMAN COLOFIREMAN is offline
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Love the thread and great job on the work!!! One thing a old welding teacher told me many many years ago......"it doesn't have to be a preaty weld to be strong......as long as you know how to grind good....thats all that matters."
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  #54  
Old 02-17-2012, 09:12 AM
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Resbum Resbum is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hook574
What is the primary use of your truck going to be, towing, trail, little of both? …

Thanks. I guess I've never said what my goals were when I set out to build the truck.

Short answer. Man, I've become long winded in this thread! Yeah, I noticed. Like I said earlier, I just retired. I want to build a tough, simple truck that will last longer than I do. I don't expect it to do any one thing great, but I do want it to handle most anything I ask of it relatively well.

Long answer.
-The truck is a 1970, no emissions or inspections to worry about.
-The '94 Cummins has no computers or sensors
-The '94 47RH has no computers or sensors. The OD and lockup are both push button.
-This means if the truck breaks I pull out simple tools and fix it. No mechanic bills, and by building it myself I know it inside and out.
-I have one small piece of property in the central Oregon high desert and I plan on buying another small piece with trees somewhere else in eastern Oregon. Both pieces will be off-the-grid.
-I need a truck that can haul building materials, fuel, water, firewood, etc., and be my general work around the property truck.
-I also need a truck that can handle the back roads, trails, recreational 4-wheelin', hunting trips, and possibly rarely pushing a snow plow.
-I also have a boat trailer rated at 5,000lbs that I'll be converting into a 6' X 14' flatbed for hauling bigger things.
-I currently live in my 40' Toyhauler 5th wheel. I plan on moving it to the properties and living in it while I build my cabins. I don't have any plans of doing major amounts of traveling with it. Eventually it will be permanently parked at one of the properties as a guest house for family and friends who come visiting. However, the truck still needs to be able to safely move it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hook574
… I'm asking because I like the way you have done your suspension and I'm wondering how narrowing the spring mount width will effect stability while towing or cornering.

The springs on all four corners came off the same 1991 Dodge W350, with Cummins, as the front Dana 60HD and NP205. It was a 1 ton car hauler with one of those tilting beds on it. Because they’re 1 ton springs I expect they have a relatively stiff spring rate. That should offset sway because of narrowing the spring mounts some. Time will tell.

I’m going to be adding air bags mounted with quick disconnects for when I have to haul the 5th wheel or some other really heavy load. The airbags and the ability to air down/up the tires is the biggest reason why I’m converting the engines AC compressor to onboard compressed air, instead of adding AC to the truck.

Finally, because the truck was made as a Camper Special it came with a front sway bar from Jeep. When installing the Dana 60 up front I looked for ways of being able to put it back on with quick discounts. I haven’t looked or given it much thought since deciding to lower the steering box 1 ½”. However, I have been thinking of front and rear sway bars for extremely heavy loads.

Again, sorry for getting long winded at times. I’ll try to limit my responses in the future.

Resbum
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"What year is my truck?... Which part?" Build thread- http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/view...p=18290#p18290

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  #55  
Old 02-17-2012, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COLOFIREMAN
Love the thread and great job on the work!!! One thing a old welding teacher told me many many years ago......"it doesn't have to be a preaty weld to be strong......as long as you know how to grind good....thats all that matters."

Luckily I grind prettier than I weld.
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"What year is my truck?... Which part?" Build thread- http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/view...p=18290#p18290
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  #56  
Old 02-17-2012, 05:29 PM
Hook574 Hook574 is offline
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Man don't apologize for giving great answers! It's funny how much what you're doing sounds like what I want to with my wagoneer. I will be retiring in a few short years and need a good all around vehicle to travel in. I want to pull a small camper and head west with a little off road exploring thrown in there.

Your plans for air bag helpers is exactly what I was planning but I think I might just outboard the springs since I'm planning on doing a little more towing.

I'm with ya on trying to use stock parts as much as possible. Being in BFE with a broke custom part would suck bad.
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  #57  
Old 02-17-2012, 06:36 PM
Mike27 Mike27 is offline
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Outstanding build! I wish I had the time and patience to strip my Jeep down to the frame and build it into a beast like that. I love the fact that you've deliberately avoided electronics. I've lived almost half my life in rural central and eastern Oregon and it can be a very, very long way from real civilization if something breaks.
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  #58  
Old 02-17-2012, 07:53 PM
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Got the rear brakes and shocks on today.

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  #59  
Old 02-17-2012, 10:01 PM
tgreening tgreening is offline
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I think you'll be good to go with most all of your intended uses, with only one concern (for me). Dual track bars like that tend to be fairly limiting on articulation. I'm not sure if the johnnie joints at your shackle ends will do the trick. If mild wheeling is all you're after you will probably be ok, but just so you know, you could have gotten away with just one track bar, more centrally located on your axle, with little to no effect of the articulation of the rear end.
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  #60  
Old 02-18-2012, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgreening
I think you'll be good to go with most all of your intended uses, with only one concern (for me). Dual track bars like that tend to be fairly limiting on articulation. I'm not sure if the johnnie joints at your shackle ends will do the trick. If mild wheeling is all you're after you will probably be ok, but just so you know, you could have gotten away with just one track bar, more centrally located on your axle, with little to no effect of the articulation of the rear end.

Thanks tgreening for the honest input. Yeah, this was one of the tougher calls I made when designing the truck. Here's the reasoning I used.

I confirmed with Ballistic Fab that the 2.63" joints have 24 degrees of articulation with the 5/8th" bolt bore hole(30 degrees for 9/16th's). The shocks I'm running in the rear only have 10" of travel and are approximately 42" apart. I plugged those numbers into an online triangle calculator and with the two shocks at opposite extremes, fully compressed/fully extended, the most my rear axle can mechanically articulate is 13.3 degrees. Because the shocks are tilted aft the axle actually gets a touch more articulation. Let's say 12" and that comes out to 16 degrees of mechanical articulation. When I got the first track bar made I hooked it up to a shackle and swung the axle end through what I believe will be the most it could experience and it freely moved through that range.

When I positioned the lower shock tabs on the axle I set it so that the axle hung at 8 3/8th" of extension with the wheels and rims mounted. That leaves about 1 5/8th" hyperextension. I'm going to mount the bump stops so that they stop the axle 3/4" before max compression.

My thoughts are that with the 1 ton rear springs I'd have to be extremely heavy in a really twisted up position before the springs would ever flex to max opposite extremes.

Now the other thing that came into play when deciding to run two bars. The engine torque. I'm not an engineer and honestly don't know how much rotational torque one bar can handle. My plans for the engine are to stop the mods around 600ft/lbs of torque. Because I don't have a clue, two bars are just a safety net. Now that I think about it, rock crawlers running doublers have crazy gear ratios, +100:1, so they must experience some pretty big rotational torques running just one bar.

Now some confirmed validation for your arguement. I have an idea of what's going on, but it would take math I'd struggle with and I'm too lazy to confirm it.

Here's what really happened when I put the track bars on. As I said, I originally set the rear axle to droop 8 3/8" of shock extension with all the operating weight hanging from it(tires/rims). After I mounted the track bars the axle only droops 7 3/4" with all its weight hanging on it. It takes my fat rear laying over the wheel to get it to extent to its original resting place. So something is going on to limit articulation.

Resbum
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