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Old 09-26-2008, 06:27 PM
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jdaniel83 jdaniel83 is offline
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Problems with Holley Pro-Jection 2D System

I just installed the Holley Pro-Jection 2D Fuel Injection on my '89 Grand Wagoneer, and after getting it running good and everything adjusted I drove it for about 150 miles and it started giving me trouble. After I drove it all day I let it sit for about 2-3 hours and when I went to start it up again it idled very erratically and it was blowing blueish smoke out of the exhaust. The exhaust also smelled very rich. If I give it gas then it runs ok but still seems to be missing and is blowing smoke. If I let it run for a minute it eventually dies and in order to get it to start I have to pump the gas pedal repeatedly as I turn it over. I tried to test the TPS and I get a reading of 0.95V instead of the 0.63-0.65V the manual calls for. Also, when I slowly opened up the throttle the reading never changed, it stayed at 0.95V throughout the range.

Something I also found strange is that when I adjusted the MAIN knob down (all the way Lean) on the ECU with the motor running around 2500 RPM the motor seemed to smooth out and run better and the exhaust was not as smokey.

I am thinking the TPS went out on my unit, but I thought it would be unlikely due to how new the system is. Could it be something else? I called Holley but they are closed and this GW is my daily driver so any help would be appreciated so I can get my Jeep back on the road before Monday.

Thanks.
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Old 09-26-2008, 07:24 PM
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I forgot to mention that it has also backfired out of throttle body when I gave it a lot of gas. Could timing have something to do with it as well? Also, if I am not giving it gas to keep it going it will lope a few times erratically and die. The "Clear Flood" function does not operate when I open the throttle all the way either.

Last edited by jdaniel83 : 09-26-2008 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 09-26-2008, 07:31 PM
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If your tps is not changing voltage that is part of your problem for sure. They are known for going out.
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Old 09-26-2008, 07:32 PM
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I have had similar issues (new unit, ran great for 1st 500 miles) but first you need to jump into the TPS and adjust until the readings are correct, directions are in the book.

A few searches I have done bring up fairly common issues (I stole this, I'm just paraphrasing from Jim Grammer on the Binder forum).

1. Power to the ECM and fuel pump are shared, they both want a full clean power source. Use the red and green fuel pump wires to trigger a seperate relay to the fuel pump. Upgrade wire to fuel pump (it's like 18 gauge at best on mine).

2. Grounds, go over all of them, everyplace, make sure they are good, clean and use a central point for all connections to the system.

3. Setup, do it by the book. Every time you change something (like a relay, the tps position, etc) do it over by the book.

4. Tach Signal, no signal = no injector firing, poor signal = poor injector firing.

This is where I am at having been through the above 2-3X (wish I could be more help), replacing dizzy this weekend. If mine does not clean up, I'm going back to points (the 2D is compatible with both), if that does not work, back to the carb, which I hate.
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Old 09-26-2008, 08:17 PM
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I've tried to adjust the TPS and it will not adjust. The reading stays at 0.95V even when I adjust the sensor. I'll try to check all the grounds and see if one could be bad.
Thanks.
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Old 09-26-2008, 09:18 PM
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Chevelleguy Chevelleguy is offline
 
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Replace the TPS. The Holley sensor is crap. I replaced mine with a used OEM GM unit from an older Caddy, just had to move the blue and gray wires in the plug.

Mine was causing intermittent problems similar to yours.
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  #7  
Old 09-27-2008, 12:09 AM
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beloth beloth is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad
I have had similar issues (new unit, ran great for 1st 500 miles) but first you need to jump into the TPS and adjust until the readings are correct, directions are in the book.

A few searches I have done bring up fairly common issues (I stole this, I'm just paraphrasing from Jim Grammer on the Binder forum).

1. Power to the ECM and fuel pump are shared, they both want a full clean power source. Use the red and green fuel pump wires to trigger a seperate relay to the fuel pump. Upgrade wire to fuel pump (it's like 18 gauge at best on mine).

2. Grounds, go over all of them, everyplace, make sure they are good, clean and use a central point for all connections to the system.

3. Setup, do it by the book. Every time you change something (like a relay, the tps position, etc) do it over by the book.

4. Tach Signal, no signal = no injector firing, poor signal = poor injector firing.

This is where I am at having been through the above 2-3X (wish I could be more help), replacing dizzy this weekend. If mine does not clean up, I'm going back to points (the 2D is compatible with both), if that does not work, back to the carb, which I hate.

Tad, how long did it take you to get that system installed and where did you order it from? just wondering...
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Old 09-27-2008, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevelleguy
Replace the TPS. The Holley sensor is crap. I replaced mine with a used OEM GM unit from an older Caddy, just had to move the blue and gray wires in the plug.

Mine was causing intermittent problems similar to yours.
Thanks for jumping in David.
I'll look at this also (I found the TPS loose at one point but my readings are withing range and adjust fine).

Quote:
Originally Posted by beloth
Tad, how long did it take you to get that system installed and where did you order it from? just wondering...
It took a good solid weekend to route all the new lines (I left the old ones just in case, about $125 there) and another solid weekend to install and adjust.
I got mine from Summit but I doubt I'd do a Holley version again.
Maybe the Howell (don't know much about them, have heard good things though) or just have someone build one from GM components. Lots of DIY TBI info out there.
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:32 PM
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Quick question, a local mechanic told me that the ground that comes off the TPS/Fast Idle Soleoid/Coolant Sensor harness could be grounded to the aluminum intake via a manifold bolt. I was skeptical about this but he said it would be ok so I thought I would ask cause I thought it could be causing the system to run badly.
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Old 09-28-2008, 05:25 AM
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Step 5 in the instructions says "engine block or intake manifold" so I would say that's ok.
Now, is that area of your engine grounded well is another story, but that's easy enough to check with a volt meter.
I actually think mine is on a bracket someplace which is probably worth double checking on my end today, for my issue.

I realize my issue is not exactly the same as yours but since we are getting some good help here please don't think I'm trying to tread on your post.

I watched mine go into this "over rich" mode twice yesterday. Running fine, there's like a hiccup, then she's dumping way too much fuel. So I thought "ok do domething", so I unplugged the wire to the high idle solinoid and it goes back to normal, like night and day. Leaving the solinoid unplugged, 2 min later it does it again, I grab the solinoid wire, touch it to the solinoid tab, presto, back to normal.
Ran great for the rest of the day.
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad
Step 5 in the instructions says "engine block or intake manifold" so I would say that's ok.
Now, is that area of your engine grounded well is another story, but that's easy enough to check with a volt meter.
I actually think mine is on a bracket someplace which is probably worth double checking on my end today, for my issue.

I realize my issue is not exactly the same as yours but since we are getting some good help here please don't think I'm trying to tread on your post.

I watched mine go into this "over rich" mode twice yesterday. Running fine, there's like a hiccup, then she's dumping way too much fuel. So I thought "ok do domething", so I unplugged the wire to the high idle solinoid and it goes back to normal, like night and day. Leaving the solinoid unplugged, 2 min later it does it again, I grab the solinoid wire, touch it to the solinoid tab, presto, back to normal.
Ran great for the rest of the day.


Tad when yours does it take the coolant temp sensor wire and touch it to ground and see what it does.
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  #12  
Old 09-28-2008, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
Tad when yours does it take the coolant temp sensor wire and touch it to ground and see what it does.
Ok, easy enough it's right up front on the Buick350.
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Old 09-29-2008, 07:48 PM
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jdaniel83 jdaniel83 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad
Step 5 in the instructions says "engine block or intake manifold" so I would say that's ok.
Now, is that area of your engine grounded well is another story, but that's easy enough to check with a volt meter.
I actually think mine is on a bracket someplace which is probably worth double checking on my end today, for my issue.

I realize my issue is not exactly the same as yours but since we are getting some good help here please don't think I'm trying to tread on your post.

I watched mine go into this "over rich" mode twice yesterday. Running fine, there's like a hiccup, then she's dumping way too much fuel. So I thought "ok do domething", so I unplugged the wire to the high idle solinoid and it goes back to normal, like night and day. Leaving the solinoid unplugged, 2 min later it does it again, I grab the solinoid wire, touch it to the solinoid tab, presto, back to normal.
Ran great for the rest of the day.

Actually Tad yours sounds very similar to mine; almost identical to tell you the truth. I was just curious about the ground since the new intake I put on is aluminum instead of the stock cast iron one. I didn't know if if would stlll provide a good ground. I'm going to leave the ground as it is for now and try the TPS that I'm still waiting on to come in and I'll let you know how it goes.
Thanks for the help.
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Old 09-30-2008, 05:34 AM
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Cool, keep us post on how that goes.
I have not got the new dizzy stabbed in yet, life got in the way this weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
Tad when yours does it take the coolant temp sensor wire and touch it to ground and see what it does.
I got noting Michael, not a spark not a hiccup, zilch.
Went after the solinoid wire shortly after and it did nothing this time, I assume I was tricked by hope again.
about 2 min later it went back to normal and was fine for the remainder of the day.
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Old 09-30-2008, 09:49 AM
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jdaniel, bad TPS is by far the #1 problem with these if you do a search. It's not going to run with a bad TPS as you describe.
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Old 09-30-2008, 08:37 PM
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Let me ask you all something here. Have any of you called Holley Tech? To me the only things that will let it run rich are these. Now I may be missing something. I have had mine on for about 3 years now so....and it is the old style unit but runs great.

Coolant temp sensor. If it reads cold when it is hot it could trip the fast idle solenoid, or just tell the ecu it is cold and it will change the fuel trim making it add fuel to the injector. Although since you pulled the wire Tad and grounded it and it did nothing I suspect that was not the case,

Now having fuel delivery issues. When I installed mine I put new lines from the tank. And then new lines from the return....same size I think 3/8 which is one size bigger that the factory 5/16 line if my memory serves me correctly. Now if you have a restricted return line you will run rich until it gets past the bad spot and pressure reduces.

Now I highly recommend fuel gauges on the inlet fuel line and the return line. I just have one on the inlet side of mine. Which everyone is different due to altitudes but mine is running around 9.5 psi ....that is to pass inspection. I would put a fuel pressure gauge on it before I went any further.

Let me ask you this, when you tuned it, how much is the idle screw screwed in before you set the tps? Or did you set the tps before you touched the idle screw on the throttle body?

Just some thoughts to get your brains rolling....I have only had one issue with mine...that is a lean back fire through the intake on hard acceleration. I does it from time to time. But I got most of it out of it and it was all tunning related.
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Old 10-01-2008, 12:03 AM
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As far as the fuel lines go I ran new 3/8" fuel lines from the front of the tank to the throttle body for both the feed and return and I have not put a fuel pressure gauge on it yet, but I'll prolly do that after installing the new TPS.
I do think you bring up a good point as far as adjusting the TPS and Idle because I adjusted the Idle before I did the TPS, but the Idle didn't seem to change once I adjusted the TPS so I left it alone. But I wonder if it could have something to do with the TPS going out. I also experienced a back fire through the intake on hard acceleration a couple times before it completely crapped out on me but I thought it was due to small adjustments too.
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Old 10-01-2008, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Let me ask you all something here. Have any of you called Holley Tech?
Yes, they were of little help.
Idle was set prior to TPS (p32-33) but having messed with it many times I'm fully prepared to go through it all again. It's not that hard I just wish they gave you easier jump in points for the volt meter, I'm thinking about cutting in and adding my own.

I'm slammed here for the rest of the week with a really big order but will start from sctratch when I install the reman dizzy this Saturday.

The reason I am focused on the tach signal is that I have had this little glitch in the ignition for the last 2-3 years. Even prior to the 2D system I could watch it on a tach and every couple of min it will bottom out.
Like poof, down to 100 rpm.
Not enough to kill the engine, it comes right back, but maybe enough to fool the ECU into thinking something else is going on.

EDIT:
What fuel pressure gauge is anyone running?
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Quote:
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Last edited by Tad : 10-01-2008 at 05:28 AM.
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Old 10-01-2008, 05:59 PM
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Tad you may be on to something with your distributor issue. Although the tach signal is telling the ecu when to fire the injectors, I am not sure if it would make it run rich but possibly make it fire at the wrong time...that is a long shot though. Anything is possible.

I am running a small fuel pressure gauge, I used a cheapo from the auto store but it was crap. Try and find one that is fully contained, glass lense etc it will last longer. But anything is better than nothing.
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Old 10-01-2008, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael
Tad you may be on to something with your distributor issue. Although the tach signal is telling the ecu when to fire the injectors, I am not sure if it would make it run rich but possibly make it fire at the wrong time...that is a long shot though. Anything is possible.

I am running a small fuel pressure gauge, I used a cheapo from the auto store but it was crap. Try and find one that is fully contained, glass lense etc it will last longer. But anything is better than nothing.

I might have this wrong so correct me please.
If I install a gauge, that just tells me what pressure I am running to the injectors?.
Correct?
If I need to adjust, I need a pressure regulator?

I can adjust pressure to the injectors at the top of the throttle body, but a gauge prior to that tells me what?
I know it tells me the PSI, how does it tell what is going through the injectors?

I've messed around and backed that allen nut off (7 turns one time), it did make it leaner but would not deliver any more fuel at high rpm's.

I'm not at a loss or giving up.
I'll be in 'Cruces with the jeep even if I have to go back to a 2V
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