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  #61  
Old 03-04-2004, 10:39 AM
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Ok, Our hood is ready..We can prime the whole thing or just do the worked spots and leave the old paint alone for now..

Lets do leaving the old paint and just doing the spots on this post...Well do the other one later..

Get your DA with some 220, or 240...We will need to further sand our repair areas so the primer will stick...So go ahead and further sand the front where we stripped it..Also sand around the body work about the width of the DA, like 6-8 inches...So in better terms, you have a repair/bodywork area maybe 6 inches accross...DA further out around the area by 6 inches or so...So now your area would be like 18 inches accross...This 6 inch area around your work will give us something to blend our primer into...So go ahead and prep the areas for primer with the 240...

Masking::
If you dont have a tape installer/masker, then you can still mask by hand, just more work...Lay a piece of paper over the repair area, and run a length of tape just on one side, right at the end of where your 240 stops and the old paint starts...Now flip the piece of paper over...What you have done here is mask a spot and the tape will not have or leave an edge....The tape is flipped over backwards...This is called back masking, or backwards masking...It will make a paint edge sandable...It you have a fine edge, it is very hard to sand and blend...If you use this back mask idea, it will leave a rough edge and is easy to sand and blend...I hope that made some since..Continue doing this till your area is boxed in...Mask all the areas...I'll try do do a demo pic soon so that better explains this method...

If your bare steel in your repair areas are covered by at least 90% bondo then you will not need to epoxy/etch them.. Since we used Black Ice and blended our putty into the paint there is very little bare steel showing, so we wont epoxy our bodyworked areas...

Our stripped area on the front will need epoxy used as an etch to give chip and rust protection...

When I'm working with any old paint, including factory paint, I like to use epoxy as an etch...The feathered areas on old paint can swell when new paint is applied, so if you use epoxy on your feathered area. (The spot going from paint to steel), will not have any swelling occuring if you are using epoxy...It creates a barrier that will not soak thru...

So go ahead and mix up 4 ounces of epoxy and two ounces of hardner...All we need is about 6 ounces to spray the front of the hood only...

I like to let the epoxy sit for 15-20 mins before using...This gives it permeation time...You can whip the epoxy for 5 mins also...The epoxy resins need to be forced into the hardner, so youll have a complete cure...If youll let it sit for 15 or so mins this will work also...MFR's tell you 30 mins permeation time, you can push this to 15-20 though...

Set your gun at 20-25 psi, wide fan, 3 1/2 turns fluid...Give the bare area 2 medium coats, with a 15 min flash time between coats...Clean everything up...

I like to let the epoxy sit for about an hour, before priming...You can wait less...Just make sure it is decently dry...It can still be a little sticky..But it really needs to be slick to the touch, before priming over...You can push that a little...It will dry quicker the more heat you have...Youll need at least 60 degrees to use epoxy...The MFR's say 68* but you can push the temp slightly also...

Mix your primer up, youll need 1/2 quart total..
Useing urethane primers youll need to do backwards style spraying on your masked areas...Urethane Primers dry so fast and get so hard that they can create a shelf under the overspray edge...In normal fashion we spray just the bodywork areas and continue each coat further out till were done...In back spraying we spray furthest out to about 1 inch of the masking edge and then the next coats are sprayed to about 1 inch of your last coat...This way we will not create a shelf...

A shelf is something we only see using urethane products...What happens is the area where your primer stops is basically just overspray(the edge of the sprayed primer) if you continue to pile the overspray in on spot, then you are creating a dry edge...Urethane primers dry so hard that even after sanding, there could possibly be a spot of overspray that is not really sticking to the car...When painting over these spots, the new reducers in your paint can leech under that overspray shelf making the area swell...You may have your primed spots very nice and then paint them and have these areas rise showing where the bodywork was...This is the downside of doing spot priming...There is a cure for it...You just back spray it so you only have one coat of overspray to deal with, it will never be a problem if youll prime this way...

So do the large areas to 1 inch of the mask...Then do the next coat to 1 inch of your last coat and continue to 3-4 coats...Make any since? If not add a question please.

Another problem you can have doing spot priming is edge build...Urethane primers can be close to a mill and a half per coat, so if you spray each coat ending in one spot then you are building an edge...You can block, and sand all you want and after sanding and painting, may be able to look down the side and see where your primer ended and started...So youll need to prime in a blend method...Never stop in one spot and do the next coat stopping in the same spot....You will be learning the first methods of blending here so pay attention, youll be fine!

This post is pretty in depth...You will be learning the first steps of blending here so if any of this doesnt make since, then let me know...

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g.../strip0007.jpg

Let your primer dry overnight before prepping...

Next we will chat about priming the whole hood...Till Later, Carey

[ March 05, 2004, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: 4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado ]
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  #62  
Old 03-04-2004, 11:07 AM
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I just watched the weather, and its going to be decent this weekend...Above 60 here sat and sun...Cool!!

So since my hood needs stripped, and needs some bodywork, then etched using PPG Omni Mp176 and Mp177 etch..Then Ill use PPG Omni Mp182 and Mp165 primer...Ill take you through the steps from start to finish...Ill need to learn how to post pics. I already have a FSJ world setup so I'm sure I can figure it out...

So by Sun night, Ill have a post with pics showing stripping paint, DAing, doing a little metal work, doing bodywork, masking, spraying, etching, and priming... So stay tuned all!!
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  #63  
Old 03-04-2004, 12:53 PM
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http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...80Chero-WT.jpg

practice...

[ March 05, 2004, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: 4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado ]
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  #64  
Old 03-04-2004, 01:13 PM
roadgrime roadgrime is offline
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hey 4x4 i finally got a link to the pic of my jeep in my sig... im gonna be posting pics in the other thread showing the work i have done to it so far

looks like u got a good base to work on. when u gonna get pics showing your new lift

[ March 04, 2004, 07:14 PM: Message edited by: roadgrime ]
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  #65  
Old 03-04-2004, 01:45 PM
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Sadly the lift only lifted it about 1 inch higher than my procomp super stiff adaleafs...Ill get a new pic up sometime...That pic is with addaleaves installed..Just 1 inch taller now....This rig is my daily driver, about 25 miles back and forth to work everyday...It is a very reliable ole rig...The ole girl has really been taken care of...

This weekend I'll be using the same products you have gotten...Ill bet it will be some help to ya!! Cant wait to see your progress pics...Been wondering....

You know if it wasnt for all your questions, I would have never posted all this info...Ive been having fun sharing all this good stuff...Brings back lots of old memories from the good days...Dont get me wrong its still great fun...I just think it was more fun when I was younger and so freakin eager for knowledge....Now its kinda been there done that..

Thats maybe why I am enjoying writing all this..I remember being young and knowone to even be willing to share any advice....I do remember it Sucked!! It seems old guys gain all this knowledge from experience, but think they have this super secret info, and in this biz its kinda known as you keep your secrets to yourself, well I never worked that way and guys thought I was weird!! This guy likes to help others needing help...Been fun so far!! Just wait till this weekend...Ill fianlly put some pics with this info....Been wantin to, but the weather here has been just too cold!!

So Roadgrime, just wanna say thanks for being a cool guy with really great questions..
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  #66  
Old 03-05-2004, 11:44 AM
roadgrime roadgrime is offline
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if you get a chance to take some before during and after pics that would bekewl. im gonna be pulling the headliner this weekend since its still too cold to paint unless i run the kerosine heater
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  #67  
Old 03-05-2004, 02:44 PM
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I got home a bit early so I started in!!

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g.../strip0001.jpg

My hood had very little damage...got the damage outlined...

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g.../strip0006.jpg

Using rope under windshield rubber to lift it so I could sand under and prime under...When I paint it complete, I will be removeing the windshield, but this way I can get rid of some surface rust that is starting to appear..

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g.../strip0011.jpg

Hammer and dollying...

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g.../strip0012.jpg

I have small areas needing bondo so I used my 90* grinder with 24 grit to get areas ready for bondo..

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g.../strip0014.jpg

Grinding done...

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g.../strip0017.jpg

Grinding done...Ready to strip...

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g.../strip0019.jpg

Stripping using air polisher with 40 grit 8 inch on 1 inch pad, 2300 rpms...

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g.../strip0022.jpg

With this tool, I had the hood stripped in less than 30 mins...This is the easiest and fastest way Ive tried...For me, nothin works better than this..

Carey

[ March 06, 2004, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: 4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado ]
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Old 03-05-2004, 02:54 PM
roadgrime roadgrime is offline
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yea 4x4 that air polisher works fricken awesome for stripping . i switched to 80 grit as the 40 grit seemed to be tearing the metal up to much. and since my epoxy primer specs 80 grit on the metal well...
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Old 03-05-2004, 03:01 PM
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http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g.../strip0026.jpg

After stripping with 40 grit, DA with 80 grit...To get smooth and feather any paint left..

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g.../strip0029.jpg

Stripping Fenders...With 40 grit, the decal comes right off easilly...

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g.../strip0030.jpg

Using a Die Grinder with 3 inch 1/32nd thick whell to grind out seam sealer...It is badly cracked and rusting from underneath....All the seam sealer needs to come out...We need to get all the suface rust out that we can...Then we will need to coat the groove/seam with primer, then reseal it..If you do this, you will not see new rust here for many years...Our seam sealers now are much better then in the years on our rigs..

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g.../strip0031.jpg

The front of the fender is surface rusted from chips...The seam sealer is badly cracked and rusting under....

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g.../strip0032.jpg

After grinding out the seam sealer...

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g.../strip0033.jpg

Stripping fenders using air polisher, with 40 grit also...

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g.../strip0036.jpg

Stripped and ready for bondo work tomorrow..

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g.../strip0037.jpg

Sorry the pics are small...There is alot of steps and pics here...I want to keep this post readable....

Kicked some A tonight, a bit tired!!!....

Carey

[ March 06, 2004, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: 4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado ]
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Old 03-05-2004, 03:47 PM
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RG, Your epoxy wont have any trouble sticking to 40 grit...Two coats of epoxy and three coats of primer can fill a 36 grit scratch no problem...

The MFR's just recommend 80 grit for guys pushing the product, and not letting it dry fully...The MFR's are concerned with a comeback from shrinkage...So if you still have a few 40 grit scratches, no worries, just let that epoxy and primer cure for a week or two and you wont have any shrink trouble...Thats one reason I like to take my time on restos...About everyone I have ever met in this biz uses about these same ideas/ways to strip...It is rare for a guy doing a resto to rush one...We used to give the customer a 3 month time frame in our shop...We gave a lifetime warranty, so we never rushed nothin....Everyone we sent out was show winning quality....

In a production enviroment, I agree, I would make sure the metal was totally finished in 80 grit, since many were painted the same day or slowest, next day....

So if your takin your time, youll never have any trouble with anything above 36 grit...

I here ya on the temps...Were going to have a nice weekend here with temps around 60....If your laying paint, youll need to replace the air in your garage...So even though you may have it heated to 70, as soon as you vent the garage youll be whatever the outside temp is....So to do any paint work, you need 60 or better outdoors to make things work, and that would be the very minimum....Id prefer 68* minimum...You will need to be very careful spraying at 60 degrees....Runs happen easy at those temps...

So tomorrow, Ill be doing bondo work, and masking...Priming Sunday afternoon....Pics will be posted as soon as I get a chance...

Till Later...Carey

[ March 05, 2004, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: 4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado ]
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  #71  
Old 03-05-2004, 03:54 PM
roadgrime roadgrime is offline
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yea i have at least another month before i can rely on 60+ weather. so tommorow i will be welding nails so i can pull some dents out of the fenders, i finally finished welding in my patches to the floor panels... so its moving right along

where did you get the 3 inch 1/32nd thick wheel? is it an abrasive disk like a mini cutting disk or? I havent found enything that looks like it would work..

one more questions ballpark how many disks of 40 and 80 grit paper did you use to do the sanding shown in the pics above so people can guestimate how much material they will need.

[ March 06, 2004, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: roadgrime ]
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  #72  
Old 03-06-2004, 12:43 PM
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Got the bondo work done today, and got the rig masked up and ready to spray primer tomorrow..

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...kees/bondo.jpg

Mixing the mud, youll have around 5 mins, before it starts to set up, so work kinda quick...

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...ees/bondo5.jpg

Spreadin it. I like to use a 6 inch spreader..Go beyond low spot by several inches..

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...es/bondo12.jpg

Let the bondo set up till the stickiness is just gone, then sand it with 40 grit...It sands the easiest this way...At this point, the longer you let it set, the harder it is to sand..

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...es/bondo13.jpg

While the bondo is soft, you can cut off any globs that went over any edges..It is much easier to trim it now, than try to sand it later...A razor knife works best..

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...es/bondo14.jpg

A DA works nice on small bondo spots with 36 grit on the DA pad...It will take it down pretty quick, so go easy...

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...es/bondo17.jpg

For larger areas I like using a Muud Hogg, this a Mac brand, made by National Detroit...Using 40 grit paper, it takes bondo down very quickly, so be ready..

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...es/bondo18.jpg

Checking for straightness..Youll want to just go past level..If youll use poly putty after this stage, it is much easier to get the area flush and straight...the poly putty blends into the steel much better than bondo does also..

Carey

[ March 06, 2004, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: 4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado ]
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Old 03-06-2004, 01:00 PM
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Ok onto using Two part Poly Putty...

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...es/bondo21.jpg

When mixing most glaze putties, use about 3/4'rs less hardner than in bondo..the glaze reacts much quicker to hardners...If you use too much, it may harden before you get it mixed on the bondo board...If you use too little, it may take 30 mins to harden..It will take a few tries to find the happy medium for the temperature you are in..

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...es/bondo22.jpg

The glaze putties spread very easy and will self level making it easier to get the area true and straight...

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...es/bondo23.jpg

Here it is setting up...It will flow quite a bit, and level nicely...Let it set till its no longer sticky...

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...es/bondo24.jpg

I like to start sanding the glaze with a DA with 80 grit...We are filling the 40 grit we used on the bondo, now finishing in 80 grit...Knock it down till the spreader swipe marks are gone..

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...es/bondo27.jpg

After DAing, I like useing a long board with 80 grit..This will get the putty very straight...Be sure to sand some then check straightness with your hand, then sand and recheck, and etc..till done..

Carey

[ March 06, 2004, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: 4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado ]
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Old 03-06-2004, 01:54 PM
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Ok we are ready to mask er up...I have a thing against overspray, and have learned that if youll take your time and be careful when masking, youll rarely have any overspray on anything..

It is rare that we would want the insides/jams of your rig the color of primer...So get all the jams taped up with mask, and there wont be none..

When masking for primer, tape right to the edge..This will leave a primer edge right on the edge of your panel...This primer edge will now be very easy to sand when prepping..Also if you let your primer wrap around the edges, then you could see chipping on the edge easier, because of thickness...Most guys dont sand edges much after priming, so however many coats you apply will be that thick on the edge...The way I mask, unless there is body work on the edge, I dont prime edges..

Another reason you dont want primer buildup on edges, is the panel could have a small gap to start with, now with primer addition, it may rub...So its best to keep the primer off the edges if possible..

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...kees/mask1.jpg

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...kees/mask2.jpg

If youll notice the tape is right on the edge of everything...The tape is on the fender side, not the door...This keeps primer from blowing in the jam...

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...kees/mask3.jpg

A while back, I took a couple weekends and disassembled the whole front end, interior, and tailgate and painted everything that was yellow, black...I'm painting my Chero black...So I want everything covered well as not to get primer all over all the new black paint in the jams..

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...kees/mask4.jpg

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...kees/mask5.jpg

Yes this is me....lol...Make sure and tuck the paper when closeing the hood, check both sides before shutting completely..

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...kees/mask6.jpg

Be sure and tape the fenderwells, well...I like using duct tape and back mask the inside edge of the fenderwell. Masking tape will rarely stick to the bottom of your rig from all the grime...Duct tape will ensure that the mask stays thru the paint process..

If you have some old sheets laying around, these are great at protecting the rest of the rig...Primer overspray is VERY hard to remove from glass, or chrome, so get the whole rig covered up!!

Youll need 12-18inches of paper lead before using a cloth sheet...Prime can soak thru cloth, so make sure you have a paper mask, before a sheet mask...

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...kees/mask7.jpg

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/g...kees/mask8.jpg

Masking done....Stay tuned and Ill get the primers applied tomorrow...

Good Night!! Carey
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Old 03-06-2004, 02:12 PM
roadgrime roadgrime is offline
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hey 4x4 did you put anything back in where you ground out the panel sealer with the 3 inch disk?

I pretty much finished up doing all the seams today. had a hard time finding a disk that would get in the seams like i wanted but finally tracked 1 down.
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  #76  
Old 03-06-2004, 02:31 PM
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4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado 4x4n In A Cherokee In Colorado is offline
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No RG, Youll want to prime the seams first...Then prep the primer...Then just before painting, seam seal everything...The seam sealer will screw up the final sanding. It would be hard to do get the area around the seamsealer sanded nice if it was there..You need to get those seams covered in primer best you can...Make any since?...I used a 1/32 thick, 3inch wheel, on a mini die grinder, probably wont find anything that works any better!...Carey
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Old 03-06-2004, 03:21 PM
roadgrime roadgrime is offline
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so no primer over the top of the seam sealer just paint?
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  #78  
Old 03-06-2004, 03:56 PM
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Whoa, and wow...I'm enjoying this Carey, you sound very much like my old BodyShop instructor...takes me back to when I'm in school, your style is very good.
I just printed all this up to now...66 pages...LOL,
Keep up the good work...
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Old 03-06-2004, 04:19 PM
roadgrime roadgrime is offline
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lol yea im copying and pasting to save space lol
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Old 03-07-2004, 12:32 AM
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Where did you learn this stuff?? Looks like you could get a job at any bodyshop with skills like that. I am going to have to print out this entire thread and spend several days studying what you have done.

Very informative. Thanks for posting your progress in such detail.
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