International Full Size Jeep Association
Home Forums Reader's Rigs Tech Library Trail Stories FSJ-List
International Full Size Jeep Association  

Go Back   International Full Size Jeep Association > Tire Kickin' > General FSJ Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-08-2019, 02:15 PM
offthebeatenpath's Avatar
offthebeatenpath offthebeatenpath is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: May 31, 2019
Location: MT
Posts: 70
230 tornado engine issues.... brings up big questions

So I've got this '65 J200 with the 230 in it, and I really haven't seen it run much. I bought a "running, driving truck" and drove it 7 miles home. Ran it for about 10 minutes in the driveway and have had issues galore since.

The head gasket was shot, so I've pulled the head off and took it to one of the 3 local machine shops (the one that said they had time) to check it out. They disassembled it, magnafluxed and inspected it, and gave me some bad news. It needs a full rebuild, including having the rockers and the cam reground. New exhaust valves, new valve seats/guides/seals all the way around. Probably looking at something in the neighborhood of $800 when it's all said and done. I can buy a rebuilt 4.0 head for my TJ for $300! I don't know if $800 seems normal or not, it's just way more than I wanted to spend. I know I could do some of that work myself, but definitely not the valve seats, and I'm not sure what else.

That brings up some obvious questions.... $800 and that's just the top end. I haven't had anybody with any know-how or credibility look at the block, crank or pistons. Cylinders aren't scored, but that's about the extent of my knowledge.

I've already decided against going the LS swap route- it's just not in the cards right now, and on top of that I'd still have a manual steering, front disc braked, post mount suspension truck. I've got a wife and four kids that I like to hang out with now and then..... there's no way I've got time or my wife has the patience (or funds) to go full-balls LS swap.

So here's the other options I've been mulling over, some still need some further exploration, but I'm trying to look at all angles. I like the old truck feel, I don't need fuel injection, though it sure would be nice at times. The goal for this is to be a weekend driver, take it into the woods to go fishing or drive it to work on a lazy day. Ideally, it stays as a manual transmission, currently I've got the T98 4 speed/Dana 20, with D44 front and D53 rear axles.

1- Jeep 4.0 Renix fuel injection swap. Easy to find parts for, though sourcing a 5 speed version of a Cherokee is a bit tougher. Don't know the length of the 4.0, or how it would fit in the engine bay, but I know it's been done and that Jeep offered the 4.2 in the later J series, so it can't be all that tough. Would give me sufficient power for my goals. Would still need drivelines, gauges, fuel delivery.

2- Some other Jeep engine. Run a 4.2 and keep it carbed (for simplicity, could change it later). Could drop in a 360, but I'd still have a lot of the other issues to deal with - exhaust, transmission, transfer case, drivelines, with questionable improvment.

3- Some other engine, carbed. Chevy 350? Caddy 500? Give me some ideas?

4- Alternatively, find a J-truck that's got the 258 in it, and swap my Rhino grille over, and call it a day.

I really am looking for some outside input, I'm trying to make the best decision I can. The best thing about this truck is that it was close to home. Montana doesn't have much to choose from. There's a lot of body work to do- floors, bed, tailgate; all the weatherstrip and glass seals. I haven't touched the brakes, transmission or transfer case yet, so there's still some big unknowns.



Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-08-2019, 08:39 PM
PlasticBoob's Avatar
PlasticBoob PlasticBoob is offline
All Makes Combined
 
Join Date: Jun 30, 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 3,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by offthebeatenpath
I like the old truck feel, I don't need fuel injection, though it sure would be nice at times. The goal for this is to be a weekend driver, take it into the woods to go fishing or drive it to work on a lazy day. Ideally, it stays as a manual transmission,

You know where I stand on this from that other thread, lol. Few engines are cooler than a Jeep Tornado, especially for that "old truck" feel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfEkE_a_Jrg

I say it's worth rebuilding and keeping. What's going on with the #6 piston though?

Don't take this the wrong way, but having any old vehicle around is going to cost way more than $800 to stay in the game. If you can't afford any of this stuff right now, just keep it off to the side and save, save, save. $800 for all that head work isn't too bad, in my opinion. I paid $1,100 for a full rebuild on my 401 17 years ago.
__________________
Rob
1974 Cherokee S, fuel injected 401, Trans-am Red, Aussie locker 'out back'
Click for video

The Southern California FSJ forum
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-09-2019, 09:18 AM
offthebeatenpath's Avatar
offthebeatenpath offthebeatenpath is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: May 31, 2019
Location: MT
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasticBoob
You know where I stand on this from that other thread, lol. Few engines are cooler than a Jeep Tornado, especially for that "old truck" feel.

I know it! There's just nothing cool about a Cherokee 4.0. But it would start. Every day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasticBoob
I say it's worth rebuilding and keeping. What's going on with the #6 piston though?

That's a great question! Are you referring to what looks like a hole in the top of it? From the damage to the oil pan, it looks like it threw a rod at some point, so that may be mis-matched piston. That's my guess, but I haven't inspected it too closely yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasticBoob
Don't take this the wrong way, but having any old vehicle around is going to cost way more than $800 to stay in the game. If you can't afford any of this stuff right now, just keep it off to the side and save, save, save. $800 for all that head work isn't too bad, in my opinion. I paid $1,100 for a full rebuild on my 401 17 years ago.

I know you're right, I think I'm just a little bummed at how disillusioned I was. On the other hand, I don't have a context for the cost of machine shop work. I couldn't tell you if $800 is high or not, sounds like it's right in the ball park. I was hoping that by buying a running/driving truck, I could eliminate some of those expenses, and maybe I did. It does have a new master cylinder and electronic fuel pump, so those are two headaches I didn't have to deal with. Maybe if I'd have planned a little better, I'd have bought something that would be worth more than the sum of the parts I'd put into it, not less. Say an FJ40? Sorry..... I'm a Jeep/Toyota guy. I like my Jeeps for playing, but my two reliable rigs are Toyotas. I like wrenching enough, but I don't like needing to turn wrenches at 11pm at night so I can drive my truck to work in the AM. There's something quite nice about only having to deal with oil and filter changes on at least one rig.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-09-2019, 10:34 AM
joe joe is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 28, 2000
Location: PNWet, USA
Posts: 22,392
$800 doesn't sound outrageous for a complete pro rebuild of an OHC I-6 head. Fix the head, it's cheaper than a "good" motor swap. The 230 OHC motor is a good motor and in good condition plenty adequate for normal use...BUT... they are maint intensive motors. Frequent valve adjustments, new timing chains, constant oil leaks from the timing cover. Bad rigid motor mount design trashes the timing cover gasket. MOST critical is check oil level "OFTEN!" As in don't rely on the oil light.
Low oil level starves the top end first and eats the cam...$$$ and hard to find new. Was main cause for 230 failure back in their day.
Kanters Auto 'used' to sell them but don't know if they still do? Spec out the crank on yours and if still good, fix the head.
__________________
joe
"Don't mind me. I'm just here for the alibi"
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-09-2019, 05:45 PM
wiley-moeracing wiley-moeracing is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Feb 15, 2010
Location: arizona
Posts: 1,136
In this day and age you can not expect to find a good vehicle for $2500 and expect it needs nothing. Even if you found an old Honda car, or Toyota truck you would still need to put money into it to make it drivable and somewhat reliable. I think you over payed a little but not to bad for where your are. If you take the time and fix this truck up doing most of the work yourself you will still be ahead money wise. Also, $800 for head work is not bad.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-10-2019, 07:19 PM
KaiserMan's Avatar
KaiserMan KaiserMan is offline
I got the Willys....
 
Join Date: Jun 21, 2005
Location: Huntington, Ma.
Posts: 8,694
I'd fix it myself. I paid around $400 to shave the head on my 230, new valve guides (I supplied them) and the valve job. No magnaflux, no grind on the cam.

230's are great motors when taken care of. Plenty of power, decent fuel mileage (I was getting around 14mpg) and are really good looking motors.

Plus, you can tell people you have a hemi!
__________________
Thomas Russell
1975 Chevy K20 8400lb GVW Camper Special
1971 Gladiator
J2000 Platform-Stake Dump 350/T18

1970 Gladiator J3000 3407Z Camper Truck 350/T18
1963 Gladiator J300 Townside 350/TH400

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-08-2019, 04:18 PM
wiley-moeracing wiley-moeracing is offline
350 Buick
 
Join Date: Feb 15, 2010
Location: arizona
Posts: 1,136
Fix it, will be cheaper than doing a engine/drivetrain swap. Hope you did not spend a lot of money for this truck? I have seen a bunch of trucks down here that are rust free project trucks( some run some don't) cheap(500-3500). there is really nothing wrong with that motor if it is in good shape and maintenance is kept up.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-08-2019, 07:14 PM
Mikel's Avatar
Mikel Mikel is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 09, 2000
Location: New Haven, CT
Posts: 6,289
A good option would be a 4.0/AW4/NP231. Relatively easy swap and with the gearing you have, OD would be nice. There are hundreds of thousands of XJs out there with this powertrain, and can be bought dirt cheap.


Myself, I have a heavy foot and have several Olds 455s waiting for a new home. I suspect that a big engine in a properly geared vehicle can give similar fuel economy as a smaller less powerful engine.
__________________
1969 M715 6x6
1963 J300 Swivel frame
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-08-2019, 07:52 PM
offthebeatenpath's Avatar
offthebeatenpath offthebeatenpath is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: May 31, 2019
Location: MT
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikel
A good option would be a 4.0/AW4/NP231. Relatively easy swap and with the gearing you have, OD would be nice. There are hundreds of thousands of XJs out there with this powertrain, and can be bought dirt cheap.


Myself, I have a heavy foot and have several Olds 455s waiting for a new home. I suspect that a big engine in a properly geared vehicle can give similar fuel economy as a smaller less powerful engine.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve got a heavy foot too, but a thin wallet!

I had a 98 XJ for about 100k, and I was always irritated by the sluggishness of the AW4, and that was with 4.10’s and 31’s. Somehow the AX-15 feels different in my TJ, maybe that’s all in my head. If I do that 4.0 swap, I’d probably hold out for the 5 speed. They’re out there, just not many of them.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-09-2019, 09:05 AM
offthebeatenpath's Avatar
offthebeatenpath offthebeatenpath is offline
232 I6
 
Join Date: May 31, 2019
Location: MT
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by wiley-moeracing
Fix it, will be cheaper than doing a engine/drivetrain swap. Hope you did not spend a lot of money for this truck? I have seen a bunch of trucks down here that are rust free project trucks( some run some don't) cheap(500-3500). there is really nothing wrong with that motor if it is in good shape and maintenance is kept up.

Like I said, the best thing about this truck is that it was close. I think I probably overpaid for it ($2500), but I thought I was buying a running driving truck, not a basketcase. The body is quite straight, aside from the rusty floor pans, bed seams and tailgate. Nothing I can't handle with enough time.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Engine swap questions... Not exactly another 350 duncanstives General FSJ Discussion 13 03-30-2011 07:42 AM
Newbie engine questions The Colonel General FSJ Tech 2 02-28-2010 02:35 PM
Engine accessory mount issues twmattox General FSJ Tech 1 10-28-2009 09:17 AM
Aftermarket fuel tank issues and questions tazzerzz General FSJ Tech 5 12-27-2008 06:44 PM
Oil pressure issues and questions Michael General FSJ Tech 5 10-07-2006 09:48 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
corner corner