1970 Wagoneer Lift ASAP

[71JEEP]

you can put scout front springs in they are the same measurements eye to center bolt and scouts are spring under, so by using them in the pre 74's you gain alot of lift being a spring over,
i have enough room to clear 35x12.5's on my j 2000 with no bodylift.
rod

[Tad]

This is exactly what I feared, (recent update from Kimbrough), "Yeah Tad, Rusty tried to convince me that he had or was going to produce a lift kit for pre-1975 Wags. This was about a year ago. I just don't believe him. I
mean, he ran me around for 4 MONTHS saying he was gonna get this kit. No way! I just do not believe it. In case you didn't know, the pre '75 Wags have shorter springs in the rear by @ 4 inches. That's why nobody makes a kit for them. The best you can do is either a spring over or Add-A-Leaves (AALs) or re-arch your rear springs. The front springs are the same length. I had a '74 Wag that Rusty told me his 4" kit would fit. It didn't and there begins my adventure with Rusty. Sold the '74 and bought me a cherry '88 GW [for $750 [img]smile.gif[/img]] Hope this helps", this also helps explain why I got an initial quote from Jeremy Bratcher at Crawltech Offroad but am getting no response (yet) when trying to nail him down on the specifics. Even for less $ I won't be a guinea pig. It's off to the spring shop on Monday for me. I know Steve or Rob here at Willy's works can set me up with the brake lines and shocks.
Today, you are my hero Kimbrough.
Thanks Again
Tad Strickland

[Bigums]

Thanks for keeping us posted, tadsal.

Okay jeepbob, judging from the pics, your jeep is pretty much where I want to be. A couple more questions...

What axles are you running? I've been told that the D27 up front won't hold up well to turning 33's. Also, could you email me any pics you have (especially of the mods you've made, but any in general)? If you'd like I can put some up on the web, and even host a sig pic for you if you'd like. Its the least I can do for picking your brain this much...

[jeepbob]

I have just done a SOA on my wag so it is a little different than those pix. I had a D27 up front and with the 360 broke the spider gears 2 times. The first time I still had the q/trac transfer case and was coming out of a very deep mud hole and had forgotten to lock the t/case in e-drive. All the power went to the frt end and caused a lot of carnage (stripped out a drive flange, broke 2 studs on the frt drive shaft, wiped out all spider and side gears in the fer diff, removed the splines from the q/trac frt cone clutch and spun the rim inside the tire). The 2nd and last time was when I found that FSJ's are like chickens (they don't fly far or well) at the Silver Lake sand dunes and landed full throttle on the front wheels (up hill yet, Jeepguzzi's head left an inprint in my headliner). The D27 will hold up to moderate wheeling, but if you wheel hard then replace it with a D44.
I don't have a lot of pix of my junk under construction due to the fact at the time I was not online and thought I was alone in my love for these oddball heeps. I have taken some of the SOA conversion and have some others of other mods and as soon as I get my scanner working I will send you some.

[Tad]

I think Miked is right on the money, I've had the Rancho springs under the front of a 51 Willys truck for about 10 years now. They are very! stiff. At first I thought it was just my KYB gas shocks, changed to a non-gas shock, was still like metal to metal. It simply takes about a 2 foot drop to get them moving. I've also had experience with the Dana 27 since 1983. I went through 3 engines (283, 305, 307) and both a T90 and turbo 350 and only broke 1 part on the 27 - that little bearing cap at the top of the stearing knuckle housing. This was on the Willys truck and I went through a set of 33" TruTracs, 36" Mud Country's and a set of 35" General Grabbers. I never had any problem with big tires on the 27 other than that bearing cap. The 35's and 36's did rub the frame rail area during severe left hand turns though.

[jeepbob]

The D27's do not hold up to 300+ hp and 33's when they go from spinning to sudden traction. The spider gears are small and not radiused well in the teeth which causes a lot of stress points and that is where I have had the 2 failures. I have never had a problem with the ring and pinion or the axle shafts. I do wheel hard and am not afraid of the throttle which explains my frt end failures. It is also why I have put in a D44 frt end.

[Tad]

jeepbob
I'm sure you are correct about the 300+hp spinning to traction reaction. With any good traction tire on a Dana 27 that alot of stress. I have tried to maintain a "get-back-in-one-piece" policy for the last 15 years or so since I drive the Willys everyday. I've actually broke more Model 53 drivers side rear axle shafts than anything else and I (actually the first wife too) always broke them on pavement.

[Tad]

No response what so ever from Jeremy Bratcher at Crawltech Offroad so here is my answer to lifting a 1970 Wagoneer.
Greg Payne at Southwest Springs (near Alvernon and Ft. Lowell Rd. in Tucson, AZ) is going to do my lift. $200 a pair for 3 1/2"-4". There are other costs. Bushings, I'm told there is a odd bushing in the front running about $33, of which I'll need 2, plus the others at $9 each. Then I'll have to measure and deal with shocks and brake lines.
Am I forgetting anything?

[miked]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tadsal:
Am I forgetting anything?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

driveline angles

make sure that the downward angle on the face of the transfer case output is within 2-3* of the upward angle of the pinion. i used a protractor from Sears @ $10 (item # 00939840000, www.craftsman.com, search for "protractor" or "00939840000") to measure the angles. here is a pic:



you use tapered shims between the axle perches and the spring to adjust pinion angle, the trans output is pretty static.

same goes for the front, although it is less sensitive to the angle being off, but the same shim adjustment is used to fix bump steer problems up front.

[Tad]

miked -
Good thought, thank you, I had that problem when I lifted the Willys and completly forgot. Anybody else think of something?

[Bigums]

A camera so you can show off afterwards?

[jeepbob]

To be honest I have only been broken so bad while wheeling that I have not made it home under my own power once. When I broke the 27 the last time I had gotten some serious air going up a sand dune. As I was not at the crest of the hill and was coming in nose first, I stayed on the gas so she would pull thru instead of nosing over and it was that stress that broke the spider gears. I have broken the carrier of a power-loc diff in the rear end under throttle in 2wd on pavement when the tranny shifted from 1st to 2nd. The only time I did not get back under my own power is when the Tornado six fell out of my 65 parts wag as I was wheeling it. They just don't run with a broken dist cap

[Tad]

Bigums-
I'll borrow the digital camera from work to take some more pic's. Still waiting for my ISP cox@home to make the change to cox@net so I can set up some space on their server.

[64Trvlr]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tadsal:
Greg Payne at Southwest Springs (near Alvernon and Ft. Lowell Rd. in Tucson, AZ) is going to do my lift. $200 a pair for 3 1/2"-4". There are other costs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He does good work, I've used them several times. Did you get a quote from Ivan at AZ Spring? He does good work too but is high sometimes. Say Hi to Steve and Rob for me.

[Tad]

64Trvlr-
No, I didn't check with AZ Spring (those are the folks on Grant near Stone right?) because they were so high back when I was doing the Willys about 15 years ago. Back then I had a place called Spring Joint Specialists (off of Romero near Steve & Rob)do the rears for the Willys, they don't seem to be around anymore. I'm sure AZ spring does great work too since the've been in Tucson my whole (40+year) life. I will say hi for ya.
I'm going to get myself together and take some digital pic's of the process and start a new posting since the "Lift ASAP" title really doesn't apply anymore.
Thanks for everyones input - look for the new post "70 Wag Lift Now" soon.
You have all been great [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]